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If anyone else is reading this post, the question is if rabbonim looks at the entire universe as one contained system, a vessel holding blessings, like a kli.

Side note: Maybe Rav Miller and rabbonim who are against “global warming” are being careful not to consider the Earth a broken kli?

If there are no cracks in the kli, we can expect it to continue providing and serving its purpose just fine.

Maybe rabbonim and people who are frum, geneally, cannot consider the world to be affected by our actions on a great scale because that’s like saying that the world is broken and we’d need a revealed miracle to fix it.

—-Just a thought. I was listening to a shiur the other day about praying and worrying. If there is s kli that appears to be working, then we don’t need to worry about it. If it has a crack and/or looks like it will break, then we start worrying and praying. If we’re worrying then things will be alright because we’re praying.

Yet if we don’t see or look for any cracks, then we won’t have to worry in the first place.

Thanks.

Is The Torah dot Com an Open Orthodox site?

With Hashgacha Pratis, are we permitted to speculate what would have happened or what we would have done?

IRL, CR’s Joseph could be the product of Joseph and his wife Josephette

“You said earlier that you don’t get insulted by halachah discussion. I guess that changed? ” (DY)

You’re assumption wasn’t part of a halachic discussion. It was unnecessary and imho did not bring any light to halacha. Instead it put down LU.

“According to the facts you presented, it was simply poor time management, and you would be like a shocheiach.” (DY)

She did not present the facts to be poskened by a rav. You’re not even her rav. If you were a rav, I doubt that you would throw out such judgments. It wasn’t your place and LU doesn’t need to go into the details.

One could even say that putting more out here in the CR was a breach of her boundaries and inappropriate to bring what happens in her home of public nature.

DY: I got these ideas from Jewish sources.

I guess that I should stop learning about Torah from rabbis then.

There’s also a big difference between cooking a goat in its mother’s milk (which is what the Torah said), and eating a cheeseburger.

Who hasn’t heard this before? And yet we know that the line means something much deeper. The bottom line is that we don’t do it just because. And when we go deeper in its significance, it speaks to the sensitivity of the Torah to living beings.

—-Regardless of the other sources and ways that dumping sewage in the ocean could be an issue (from not causing suffering to an animal and so on), it is possible to derive meaning from not wasting what we have and not dumping waste into the ocean.

Dumping waste into an ocean is a destruction. It destroys the ecosystems that are there. For many living beings, the ocean is a home, a medium of communication, a road for transportation, and a portal to absorb oxygen.

This destruction causes suffering. Death. Deformations. Distress.

We are not unaffected either. We humans also use the ocean as a resource. So it destroys what we have. Loss. Then it also puts our lives in danger when we’re exposed to those pollutants. Suffering. We rely on the ocean for so much. When we neglect to be considerate of our actions, it’s our loss.

Thank you

Here’s more:

“The principle that “one should not drain the water of his well when others need it” is found in the Mishnah.13 A Jew is even commanded to prevent damage threatening his neighbor from an outside force.14

The Sages of the Talmud expanded these rules also to psychological disturbances, such as possible exposure to a neighbor’s observation, noises, and so on. Anyone suffering such annoyances may appeal to the courts to force his neighbor to remove them. This may include the removal of the cause of the noise, although the noise is only indirectly due to it15 and even if its removal will cause the owner financial hardship. Based on these rules, the Ryvash drafts the guiding principle: “One may not protect his own property from damage at the expense of his fellow’s damage.”16 This principle could serve as a guideline in modern legislation for pollution control.

Four particular nuisances are especially liable to legal action according to Jewish law: smoke, sewage odors, dust and similar aerosols, and vibrations.17 Even if consent had initially been given, the offended neighbor can retract it. All of these are forms of pollution which are a source of great concern to this day. In particular, halakhah limits the proximity of certain industrial processes to the city, to prevent air pollution within the city. Included are threshing floors (because of the chaff), processing of carcasses, tanneries (because of the smell), and furnaces (because of the smoke).18 Tanneries are specifically limited to the areas east of the city, in consideration of the prevalent wind patterns in the Land of Israel.19

We have already mentioned the value the Torah places on beauty. It is obvious, then, that mere aesthetic damage such as littering in public places is also included in the prohibition against causing damage — if not according to the letter of halakhah, then according to its spirit. We find at least one example of such legislation: furnaces were forbidden in Jerusalem because the smoke blackened the walls of the houses, “and this is a disgrace.”20

All the above is only a small sampling from over one hundred paragraphs in the Code of Jewish Law21 which deal with damages caused to neighbors, most of them environmental. One who studies and applies these laws in daily life becomes considerate and sensitive, and will not make light of harming the environment. He will beware of causing damage in general, and ecological damage in particular.” (Aish)

CTLAWYER: Thanks. Got it now.

***”Two thousand years ago the Talmud (particularly Baba Batra chap.2) extensively covers the regulation against atmospheric, water and even noise pollution, and arising from Deuteronomy (23:12) issues of waste disposal.”***

From Aish by R. Yossi Ives.

The article mentions that yes there are several exceptions but overall there doesn’t seem to be any support that Torah permits us to damage the environment without care, assuming that the Moshiach will come clean it up or come soon enough that it doesn’t matter what we expose our children too*.

*Not saying that you or anyone here said that….IRL someone told me that it doesn’t matter because Moshiach is coming anyway. Mentioning it just in case anyone wants to bring that up.

*Judaism and Environmentalism: Bal Tashchit*

Observance of a mitzvah, like tearing clothes in mourning, or preservation of human life or health, overrules bal tashchit when the two come into conflict.

That said, the Jewish sages reveal a high degree of sensitivity when it comes to waste.

Quite a level to which to aspire.” (Neril on Chabad).

Thank you

Bal tashchit

“When you besiege a city for many days to wage war against it to capture it, you shall not destroy its trees by wielding an ax against them, for you may eat from them, but you shall not cut them down.

Is the tree of the field a man, to go into the siege before you?

However, a tree you know is not a food tree, you may destroy and cut down, and you shall build bulwarks against the city that makes war with you, until its submission.

Pasted from Rabbi Yonatan Neril’s article on Chabad dot org.