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Joseph, all you do is tell unsourced, anecdotal fairy tales to support your cause. How many frum Jews convicted of civil crimes were wrongly convicted? How many went to jail for refusing to testify? What are your sources? In czarist Russia mesira was essential because no Jew could get a fair trial and punishment involved long sentences. The poskim who hold that mesira does not apply in the US is because, by and large, a Jew can be fairly triedin civil court, even more so in federal court I find it hard to believe that many Jews would go to jail to protect criminals, when there are reliable poskim to fall back on.
Abba, you made invalid statements re five Towns based upon personal, incorrect observations. Sales of homes to young couples are ongoing( based on real estate sales by frum agencies ) , numerous young couples moving in each week and shul’s bursting at the seems. New yeshivas keep opening as are new shul’s.
I hope everything else you’ve been telling us isn’t similarly based on personal observations.
By the way, where do the respective yeshivas in lakewood and Monsey plan to place 3000 additional students each per year? Were there that many empty slots? I thought the yeshivas in Lakewood are at capacity?
Joseph, a. What is your source that innocents are routinely convicted? How many Jews sentenced for civil crimes have had their convictions reversed?
B. How many frum Jews are actually in prison for refusing to testify ( it’s called being in contempt ).
Were these statements based on facts or, as usual, based upon your feelings?
Joseph, for the umpteenth time,this first time you’ve responded. So, at least one of them is wrong.
Nisht, what do minorities, or lack of them have to do with how well the district is run?
Abba, I have a question regarding your statistic of 3000 additional students in Lakewood and Monsey. I presume as kids get older,they graduate , right? So, are you saying that the incoming class is actually between 4000 and 6000 ( 3000 new plus replacing departing students ) ? That seems kind of high. How many frum families are in school community? How much do you know about the five Towns? Based on your estimates you feel that the population is 1/6 the size of Lakewood and Monsey ( few hundred vs 3000 )
Here’s one that applies to everybody. Blocking a legal driveway ( particularly one belonging to another frum Jew who needs car to get to shul ) and justify iy by saying they are late for minyan.
Joseph, so are the Satmar brothers chayav for being in a secular court? You don’t have to answer. Your continued silence on this point speaks volumes
Abba, still no answer and you act like nothing matters but bussing
Abba, you never responded to my question. Were there deficits prior to the monitors being appointed in either district?
With regard to the 5 Towns,why is politics the assumed for a lack of a monitor? Perhaps it’s because there is no deficit, and, after initial fears when the Orthodox took control, the public school parents for the most are satisfied that their children’s interests are being served. None of the local papers have reported any negative news in a long time
Barry, you nailed it perfectly. Treat the information as if the shidduch was being proposed for your OWN child. It’s much easier to be melamed zchus and bend over backwards when the child being put at risk is someone else’s
New York grants annulments under five different scenarios.
1. Either spouse in incurably unable to consummate
2. Either spouse was not 18 st time of marriage
3. Either spouse was mentally insane
4. Either spouse could not give actual consent or understand the nature and consequence of marriage due to mental incapacity or deficiency
5. Either spouses consent to marriage was obtained by force, duress or fraud
Abba,how does Cutting ( reducing expenses bussing increase the deficit? How, specifically, did the monitor increase the deficit?
Health, a divorce is not an annulment. Annulments are , under the proper circumstances, are granted.
Health, we annul religious narratives too. In the case of agunas, there are recognized poskim who for years have tried to find legitimate reasons ( such as invalid witnesses ) to annul a marriage to
There is an option that is obvious that perhaps someone can explain why it hasn’t been mentioned.
Is the two mile requirement for mandatory bussing written in stone? If the minimum distance for mandatory bussing is reduced to, say, half a mile, then funding becomes mandatory ( it’s hard to argue that a child needs to be bussed less than a half a mile )
Health, A. The CIVIL marriage was annulled. B. The woman didn’t like taking the medication and only took it to make a shidduch and hide the truth about her illness. Once married she refused to take the medication
Joseph, if not for the yeshiva kids, the u wouldn’t e en know, let alone care, about the public school kids.
Abba, w by atever deficit is run up, don’t expect any funding for courtesy bussing! Classes and programs for the kids. Ones before courtesy bussing.
Then he should be asking their rav. Lenses in all shapes sizes and form have been around for over 50 years and if this was not simply a chassid shoteh question, the concern would have surfaced years ago and debated by poskim. When I wore lenses, the only method my rav said couldn’t be used as a method of that utilized electrical sterilization.
Abba. First, how is the state liable when by definition, courtesy bussing is not mandated?
Second, you write these long winded reperive commentaries that only apply to Lakewood’s courtesy bussing. Why should other NJ taxpayers pay so yeshiva kids can keep courtesy bussing ( and Joseph, please don’t reply with your false concern for the public school kids).
No one cares about Lakewood’s problems. Your solution is to raise your taxes instead of expecting other taxpayers tofoot your bill.
Or, you could move to another town that doesn’t have these issues
Perhaps because some people define their religiosity by how much they can deny themselves as a chumrah
Creamsoda, and you know this because……
In the 19th century they tried to force yeshivas to teach Russian and secular subjects the Communists simply shut the yeshivas
Don’t forget that virtually all of Russian Jewry trapped in the post WWI Soviet Union were lost religiously. Their is an interesting theory as to how the Communists were able to virtually wipe out religious observance in one generation while the Czars couldn’t accomplish it in two hundred years.
The Czars had tried persecution and oppression, which by itself never works. The communists, many of whom were Jewish and grew up in religious homes, knew better. They knew that if they cut off the figurative head, the body would die. They set to close shuls and yeshivas and kill/ exile all leaders end educators ( rabbanim, melameds, butcherd etc. With them gone, the community withered
Zdhavasdad, the is a persistent folklore that nearly everyone in the alterheim was religious. Eastern European shtetls held out longer than Western Europe but the pace of assimilation was accelerating as more young Jews left for the big cities and were grabbed by the isms ( socialism, radicalism, communism, Zionism )
Far more poor, unknown immigrant Jews, faced with the edict of if you don’t come in on Saturday, don’t come in on Monday gave in to their poverty and went off the derech.
Creamsoda, two small historical corrections. 1. The Arabs controlled the land first, followed by the Mamelukes and then the Turks. 2. The Yidden were not the original inhabitants. There were never more than Avos and their families prior to Yehoshuahs invasion after Moshe died
This has always puzzled me, iif you can’t provide confirmed “negative” information ( I.e. multiple broken engagements, ), then why bother with the whole calling process? A friend had his son’s wedding annulled within a month when he learned the kallah had mental issues the had been controlled by medication. She stopped taking them right after the wedding and the symptoms returned. A number of people actually had the chutzpah, after the fact , to tell him that they knew about it but didn’t disclose it prior to the chuppah because they didn’t want to ruin the shidduch!
Joseph, you didn’t answer my question
And, do you think that was a good or bad thing for the father to do?
Health, the whole concept of voting is chukas akum.
Joseph, as will courtesy bussing and private placement.I may be wrong, but in NY , technically taxes can be forced on district. If two budgets are voted down, a bare bones austerity budget is enacted, along with whatever tax increase necessary to fund it. I don’t know about NJ
If the person doesn’t realize you HAVE to get past him and those are your two choices, say excuse me.
People treat non-gebrovhts as halachs; I’ve been told I’m making use of a kulah. I would agree that gebrocht is a minhag
As I stated in the other thread the most common mistake is being made by those arguing with DY. They think their position is the only valid one. Another common mistake is mistaking a chumrah as halachs. The classic case is gebrocht. It’s gotten to the point where eating gebrocht is considered a kulah when it is in fact the halacha
Neville, the more accurate description would be unnecessary talking. As an example, you can say “excuse me” as opposed to pushing somebody.
Abba , no yeshiva can rely solely on tuition, and that’s even if everyone pays full tuition, which is not the case How do yeshivas that stress fathers not working survive without fundraising?
Years ago I saw,a very funny satire invoice ng a strike by the Shabbos you union. ,
The union President justified their demands by saying how demanding the job was, having to interpret gestcu look actions and random statements and questions at figure out what was being requested
Actually, I’ve always thought the phrase should be ” were you RAISED ” with a silver spoon in your mouth “.
We’ve all seen wealthy children well grounded by their parents in midos, education and responsibility for their actions. We’ve unfortunately seen other children raised as selfish, entitled brats.
Joseph, in his speech, Mr Rechnitz stated that he gets many calls from parents whose children have not been accepted. Is your statement to the contrary based upon fact or what you hope actually is?
Brush and floss daily
I think what DY has so clearly demonstrated with his responses is that the most common mistake people ( I.e. MA and Joseph ) is that the halachic psak that they follow ( even when not misinterpreted ) is the only acceptable point of view
DY, all I did was point out to the person who commented that they wouldn’t have a problem if their landlord was frum that being frum unfortunately is not a guarantee of being a mentch
Don’t wish for a frum.landlord as you might be sorry. My in-laws lived in a two family house and the frum landlord would “accidentally” turn then their heat down erev Shabbos and then say he couldn’t raise the heat because it was Shabbos.
Fe: blocking driveways. 30 years ago, a shtibel opened up on East 7 st in Midwood. My father-in-law and his friend defended their right to do so, especially when they promised not to park illegally. From day o e my in-laws friend found hid driveway blocked and when he asked them to move the car, they said they couldn’t because they were davening. So, he bought a boombox, took it into the shtibel the next morning and played the worst music he could find as loud as he could. They “we can’t daven” so he said then you can move your cars. He promised that every day he was blocked, he’d be there with the b9ombox. They stopped blocking him.
Abba, if the Jewish community of East Ramapo wants to preserve their services, vote to increase taxes it’s that simple. All you’re doing is trying to get others to pay to solve your problem. Since you keep raising the one man one vote issue, why should taxpayers who don’t live or vote there have to pay
Joseph, in his veto message, Christie raised thatvery issue. He said to simply give money without AC changing how it does business ( spending, taxation ) would accomplish nothing.
Joseph, there is additional funding available, it’s called taxes. If the governor just refused to bail out Atlantic City, what makes you think he’ll bail out Lakewood?
Abba, please stop being condescending to the immigrant population. The Lakewood district will have to deal with the reality of living within their current budget. It is their issue, not yours..
Joseph, I think I got your point. I’m not saying your wrong but they will not be the first district to live under an austerity budget. The issue isn’t religion, it’s money. Either live within your means or raise taxes. Just don’t look for a state bailout to pay for courtesy bussing
Joseph, you act like it is something that has never happened elsewhere. It’s called an austerity budget. It’s when a district ( in NY ) votes down a budget two times. Gavra is correct. Camden is bankrupt and Atlantic City is headed that way. Gov Christie vetoed an aid package for Atlantic City. Lakewood’s district will simply have to make do
Why do you need entertainment? It’s just an added, unnecessary expense
Oh please. How are they denying based upon religion? Please get off your soapbox. There is ample precedent for oversight when an select D entty is perceived to be fiscally irresponsible. Financial control boards (FCB ) had veto power on the budgets for both NYC and the city of Yonkers were nearly insolvent. Nassau Country is currently subject to a FCB. The school boards of both Roosevelt and Hempstead were taken over by the State unelected judges at both the federal and state level overturn laws .So much for one man one vote. Your sole concern is courtesy bussing so that your kid doesn’t have to walk a couple of blocks, and you don’t care if programs for the district’s kids have to be cut to pay for it