lawnmoer

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  • in reply to: BTL Advice and Planning #1004907
    lawnmoer
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    Health “lawnmoer -Read what I wrote before – a lot of Yeshiva guys only want the degree and then they open up their own pratices.”

    Hanging your own shingle without at least a few solid years of experience learning the “practice” of law (which is not taught in law schools) is usually a bad idea. Thinking that you can just open up your own firm and that you will have clients and have any clue what you are doing is just one more misconception that people thinking about going to law school have.

    Unless your father-in-law has a large legal practice with lots of paying clients, in which case why wouldn’t you just stay in Kollel…

    in reply to: BTL Advice and Planning #1004899
    lawnmoer
    Member

    popa_bar_abba “2. There is nothing in undergrad that prepares you for law school anyway. (No, you don’t need to know how to write in law school, go read any law school forum)”

    I generally do not comment on here but I strongly disagree with the above and would like to add some other thoughts on this which may be helpful. By way of background, I graduated from law school a few years ago and I am currently working at a top law firm. I thought about getting a btl at one point but ultimately decided to go to college prior to law school.

    Unlike medical school, almost anyone can get into ‘a’ law school as the standards for the lower tier schools are not particularly robust. Many smart yeshiva guys can get into pretty good law schools. But the key to getting one of the high paying jobs at the “biglaw” firms is to do well in a good law school. It is not that difficult to coast through any law school with B’s but it is very difficult to get one of the few A’s in the class. There are strict curves in most law schools, so that means beating your competition, which are folks coming from four years at ivy league and other top colleges from around the country.

    Your grades will be based on finals which, for most classes, are based entirely on essay exams. Other classes will be based on a final paper. So, in fact, you are usually graded based solely on your analytical and writing skills (assuming that almost everyone studies the material and knows the information). So the difference between an A and a B will often be “knowing how to write”.

    There have been some btl success stories that have gotten in to good law schools, done well, and went on to get jobs at good firms. But those are exceptional cases and were most likely very intelligent people who were able to overcome their lack of experience with taking written exams and writing papers relative to the other students, but not because writing doesn’t matter. And getting these jobs nowadays is substantially more competitive than it was 5 years ago.

    Moreover, when applying for a law job, prospective employers will look at your resume, including your undergraduate degree and relevant work experience. Having a btl in talmudic law (even a 4.0!) and little or no experience will be measured against other resumes with degrees in business or science from top universities and internships/jobs at well-known institutions. These are just some more hurdles to overcome.

    If your goal is not necessarily to get a job at a big law firm, that is fine. But getting a good paying job at any firm will likely depend on what school you went to and how well you did. Unfortunately, given the economy and current legal market, there are lots of lawyers with $100K or more of student loans with poor job prospects. So the combintation of a btl and a lower ranked law school / mediocre grades may not be a great bet.

    Besides, if writing is not your thing, you may want to consider a different profession. While many people envision giving fascinating closing arguments or negotiating billion dollar transactions, most lawyers spend the bulk of their time sitting in an office reading/writing motions or contracts.

    Of course, bitachon is key in any parnassah that one pursues, but I think the hishtadlus aspect should also be reasonable and not be rooted in ignorance or fantasy.

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