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WOW, I myself moved to Israel at a much more critical age than your son and I know what that identity crisis is like. Eventually after going through the system here for a while I did go to America for a couple years. If you want i think I maybe able to help out with a couple of ideas for him.
It takes time but eventually he will realize that he has to come to terms that he is American in certain ways and Israeli in others and for me it took going to AMerica for a couple of years to be “proud” of the Israeli side of me, both culturally and value wise.
The reason why i continue to emphasize what I did in the last post isn’t to be annoying and blame you. It is because from my experience with these situations, the fact the someone has this sort of identity issue of American/Israeli is not to be taken lightly; however, usually a person is able to find some type of niche or place and the identity issue becomes stronger and more enhanced usually to other underlying issues. SO while I suggest you believe your son that he resents the fact that he’s neither/or, you should realize that for him to be acting the way he is and to be so stuck in that identity issue must stem from other things and that I humbly suggest you look more deeply into… It could be the points that i was making before. It could be that his way of thinking or specific uniquness were never noticed and appreciated. It could be a million things.
What you should do is think hard about that.
Also I suggest that you should be totally focused with him on trying to find some kind of interest that he can develop. I know you’ve been saying that he”s just interested in smoking and what his friends are doing. I’m sure if he was doing something where he had an edge over his friends be it a job with real money or studying something interesting or other things…. he would probably use that to his advantage.
Does he ever express interest in going to the states? Even though he’s only sixteen there are some ideas for him. if he had to work and be on his own a bit it could work wonders; reality would set in for him… It could be detrimental too and that would depend on where he’s holding and where he would be there. From what I know about Israel though, there aren’t many options. He’s not going to work at a pizza store although if you ask me a job like that wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world for him.
I wish you a restful and peaceful SHabbos
I grew up in Israel in an American family who moved from New York in pursuit of ideals that were more real or high or a bunch of other adjectives…. Although there is a trace of cynicism in that last statement… I will add that i hope i have internalized some of those values…. Having said that….
I have been following this post here and there and i can tell you two things for certain. From different things that you write I can tell that your mindset and how you view Judaism has been strongly influenced by Charedi culture. The flaw in Charedi thinking is that one should separate between things that are naturally important to them and those that are values that you strive to be a part of. The underlying mindset of our self righteous world does not believe that and especially in Charedi Israel. Someone smart once said that in America Judaism is a part of life, by some even a great part of it and in Israel it’s life… the down side of that is that it isn’t …. Before you jump over me What I mean is hopefully it should be but should is the key word. if it is Ma Tov and I look up to people like that but where the charedi world goes wrong is that the reality is that Torah should educate the person and when I say that by definition that means that naturally the person has his/her own identity which isn’t Torah. Obviously the state of the human being left without the guidance of the Torah is doomed as we see in popular culture, which is why most of us are trying to be practicing Jews. But if we start making the values we hear and are inspired by, our identity per say, that only stems from insecurity and inability to deal with ourselves as people first of all. Your son maybe be rebelling becasue he needs to know that your love for him is moe real than anything your teaching him. Eventually this in itself will ironically bring him to believe in those values.
Your son needs to know, and I repeat, know, that for you the humanistic part of being his mother/family is more important than Judaism and I’m not sure you know that so how can he? He is in the streets because it’s all the same in this culture. I know it because Ive been there. There is nothing called being a normal person in that society. once he’s not in yeshiva than there is nothing else… What he’s telling you is that there is something in his basic identity that he resents and that that identity associated with Judaism and the basic culture that he grew up on, Right now he’s on a mission to find an identity that will be a relief for him and he’ll just keep on going until he finds that.
My second point is that your son is obviously very angry and in pain but it is deep and in my opinion from what it sounds like, telling him you love him, although better than getting into any sort of argument with him, isn’t really helping. It’s time to really devote yourself to understand what he really is angry about. You must be 100% honest and not the least bit defensive when it comes to this.
I feel your pain but I feel your son’s pain too. I wonder what he would think if he read all this….. “People are only mean when they are threatened” someone once said. What is your son going through for real inside of him?
WOW: I have read through most of this thread and I find it very close to heart. In one important aspect I can relate to what you and son and family are going through more than almost all your responders. I too am a child to an english speaking family who grew up in on of the typical Charedi neighborhoods and I actually went through the “prominent” yeshivos untill about SHiur gimmel in Yeshiva gedolah.
As much chizzuk and feedback that you may and I’m sure you are getting from all these people there is something about growing up within this system that noone even from the most yeshivish Lakewood type communities in AMerica can relate to and dare I say, give advice for.
I will give you my 2 cents and if you relate I can talk more because I can go on all day and if not relevant then there is no purpose.
I have been reading your posts and some of what people are trying to convey to you and I have alot what to say. I will be a bit presumptiouous and please do not take this the wrong way. I do not mean to be judgemental at all rather just helpful. You seem like the classic person who has realized that there is a certain “spirituality” or standard of Judaism that exists or is personified by the Charedi community living in Israel (The modox counterparts would argue the same for the dati leumi crowd in israel as oppsoed to the one in AMerica) As someone smart once put it: In america, Judaism has become a great part of life, even the biggest part for some people. In Israel it is life. Some people won’t like me writing this but there is an element of truth to it. Be aware that this is coming from someone who attributes years of confusion and being lost to the charedi system.
I will explain. Whatever the reason that your son is hurting and I obviously don’t know what that is but from experience he needs therapy immediatelly. More improtantly, he needs from you to change your mindset. there may be alot of merit and truth to the purity that you have seen and arguing here for. But coming from a different perspective which is the one your son is living in and the one alot of ppl here are conveying to you, he sin’t so bad. He really isn’t. I don’t know how you should work out the details and he is only sixteen. What he needs is for you to agree with him on something very deep and essential to him. You need to figure out what that is. It probably is very psycholgical but probably also has philosophical underlyings. It can’t be that all should be the same and learn and not develop their personalities and be locked within a world where there aren’t many options. Your son probably has already developed a philosophy of life and however immature and chaotic it may be,and however fake it is because it is probably based on all the movies he watches,there is a kernel somewhere within that is based on what he percieves as true. you need to find a way to relate to what is really bothering him. I don’t want to project too much but there maybe be underlying cultural view that you have adopted but you may need to realize that there are faults in that world view even if it is as you wrote somewhere “the best of all others” and your son may have been affected by those faults and therefore he needs to feel like another mindset is legitimate even by you in a rwal way. After which He needs to be part of a system (mental not only practical) that would work for him. Parents, especially AMerican, in Israel, want to forget that there exsits a more compromising midset. you are right: It’s why you are living there and not in FLatbush. Just remember that there is merit to the non Chredi mindset of starting with the person as opposed to the ideal. Maybe your son needs that. Maybe he needs you to acknowledge that that is ok. This is coming again from someone who understands the dieals you are trying to live up to.
Maybe he can go to AMerica. He may have some hard times there. Eventually he will realize that there is noone to be angry at there because the charedim aren’t bothering him there. He will want to make something out of himself. Believe me I will not specify deatils about myself or people I know who were in the same similar situation. I will say that you son has the potential of being someone very well rounded and great being that he is so senstive and real and on the other hand was raised in a very idealistic environment. He may and proabably does have potential to be a great source of inspiration if he builds himself and bezrat hashem he will. Just do your best that the process isn’t too painful and strenuous. Make sure he has some energy left for after the rebellion.