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“In response to the OP – this discussion is really moot. If you’re Chassidish, then no explanation is necessary; if you’re not, then no explanation will suffice.”
mobico- Speak for yourself and keep your ignorance to yourself.
“After all it says ain Simcha eleah Dag v’Basar”
ZeDa- It actually says Elah baBasar and baYayin. And, that’s talking about YomTov, not Shabbos, when it is a Chiyuv to eat meat and drink wine. As for Shabbos and fish you’re doing fine, you don’t like it, that would be hepech Oneg Shabbos.
Sam- are you talking about Y”D 341:1? See the Pischei Tshuva who is michalek between Shabbos and YomTov where there is a Chiyuv mitaam Simchas YomTov. And on Shabbos TishaBav and for an Avel there is a Chiyuv to eat meat, see Magen Avraham 13 in O”C 552 (and Machatzis Hashekel). And even from 341:1 I’m not sure it means that you *should* do what you want, maybe just that you could. See Tur O”C 242 where he says “Tzarich Liharbos” (and “Yesh LiAdam Lizarez Atzmo”) and Shulchan Aruch 250:2.
So sometimes there is a Chiyuv to eat meat.
OYR- What *does* he say?
MDG-
???”? ????: ??? ??? ???? ????
If an extra delicacy falls under this category, how much more so following his Rebbe’s directive.
“Kozov: I think my point was that the Pashtus Halashon can mean whatever you want it to mean. Which is fine. Apikorsim distort the Torah all the time, but we don’t let that affect our interpetation of it. “
That is not fine. Just because Harotze Litos Yavo Viyite doesn’t mean you can do things that are Maris Ayin or Lifnei Iver. This is definitely Lifnei Iver, diHava Lei Lifaresh Vilo Listom or not say anything at all (in other words not support the song in any way), because it’s clear as day the meaning most people extract from it (and by your admission).
I wonder if 6(?) and 7 are permitted.
Can we delete this “now” obselete thread and the “troll”?
Sam, so the pashtus halashon is apikursus, but its miramez to something toradik, you see what you did? Krum krum krum
the olympics are rooted in Avoda Zara mamash.
Toi just because people might make mistakes doesn’t mean you can be ambiguous and make blanket statements about pinchas and no such thing as live and let live and trick people into being extra machmir.
I really dont understand why you stress severity when kindness and acceptanve is just as, if not more, important.
Yichusdik- i appreciate your summarization. Therere probably more factors too. Here is a very important one that i dont think was brought yet.
You shall surely rebuke your fellow (?????(- ?? ???? ????? ???????- one who is on your level in torah observance- otherwise the mitzva of ahavas yisroel continues, and in fact maybe hell return from this approach.
Didnt you say mitoch shelo lishma bo lishma is not a pashute heter even for men?
“Physically attending a particular place on a particular day of the year never really had too much significance.”
Uh, Meron on hilula diRashbi.
“do you think other Jews who DON’T go to Uman on RH are unable to get any sort of kedusha throughout their year?”
I think that’s precisely what they think, and thats why they do it. Well im sure there are similar opportunities like going to kivrei tzadikim or being connected to a tzadik. Anything wrong with them thinking that way?
” I suspect the “kedusha” you are referring to is simply inspiration derived by seeing so many Jews in one place.”
That too but not only that. Some might think they are on a spiritual high when its simply like you said but that doesnt detract from hashpaos being drawn down on the neshoma that they may not be aware of.
In your opinion.
Maybe they don’t feel Rav Shach is as big of a gadol as you do. Maybe they couldn’t find enough good material.
The same with Reb Aaron.
Isn’t there already an english book on Reb Shlomo Zalman?
Curiosity- I think Mitoch Shelo Lishma Ba Lishma is a heavily relied on “Heter”. The lashon is actually “*liolam* yilmod…” because its impossible to start out learning selflessly and for the right reasons and it takes a lot longer than you think to get there.
When someone uses the phrase live and let live theyre not neccessarily saying it the same way others mean it. Sometimes you have to leave somebody alone because that’s the best thing to do, in which case it is just as Toradik to do so as rebuking when rebuke is appropriate. But if they mean live and let live in a broader sense then theyre wrong its not Daas Torah.
Curiosity i think he meant this and that.
And Breslever Poskim are not Poskei Hador?
Modding takes time=money too.
Kollel Yungerman and choppy(?), its so krum I find it a bit disgusting.
If you want to do the right thing, which it seems like you do, but you don’t know the proper Hashkafa or cheshbon of how to get there, don’t be hard on yourself for feeling a certain way in the past, as long as you’re working on it. Because you can’t help how you feel, until you know how to think about it, and you won’t know until you will know. So while choppy may be right, you can’t be expected to change your feelngs like flicking a light switch, as he may have implied.
The tediously slow pace of some otherwise good Torah conversations is frustrating for a number of reasons. Since the mods are obviously not here full time, but want to mod at the same time, can we have some kind of system where during these times established legitimate members dont need to be modded unless someone flags their comment, when it is sent back to the mods for confirmation? And can you please set a specific length for “too lengthy” posts? Anybody else with good suggestions?
Sam, are you sure Simchas Yom Tov is up to you to choose? And are you sure its choice, not taste by oneg shabbos?
The righteous man in that story abstained from meat most likely not to partake in pleasure. (And about wine it says except for religious practices, so maybe also by the meat, don’t know the context.)
ZosHaTorah, it should have been quite clear that choppy was not talking about you, rather about somebody who does not eat meat biShita (and quite possibly does not consult a Rov about it). I know someone who is otherwise frum but has difficulty accepting killing animals and bringing karbanos and is apprehensive about Moshiach’s coming for this reason. And i dont think thinking along those lines is an isolated case. That’s at least what I was talking about.
Wolf I totally agree to your sensitivity. Shem Rishoim Yirkav, Yimach Shmom Vizichram
“who nowadays can claim that they are on such a level and can learn Torah without the possibility of it turning into “Hevel” (nothingness)?!?!”
Health- Appparently men can, that’s why they can learn Torah Shebaal Peh.
Ya nice one YehudaTzvi. Wolf I think that’s the answer to your question: many of these frum people who are vegetarians make cheshbonos that are not in line with the Torah way of thinking.
(I wonder what they think of others who aren’t vegetarians by the way.)
Wolf whats up with these negative comments?!
silent l in walk silent k in knight silent b in bomb silent n in solemn silent w in wrapper silent h in white
lwkbhnghotiobhklw
lklklklkklklkklklkklkkghotiolklklklklklklkklkklklkl
The nisayon of ?????? is bigger than the nisayon of ????? or mediocrity. He must make proper use of the money he indeed has. Hashem was michabed this person with the trust and oppurtunity to make proper use of this significant pikadon. We should honor such a person too. Even for R’ Elazar ben Arach this was a great Nisayon (??? ??? ?), how much more so for anashim kierkeinu. But surely they are given great kochos to pass the test since Hashem doesnt come with unreasonable demands from his creations and those who do, their zchus is great. That is why Rebbi (himself an ???? and understood the nisayon) was michabed Ashirim.
??? ???? ?????? – ??????? ??.
dd,
??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?????, ?? ???? ????? ????, ???? ??? ???”? ?? ???? ??????” (??? ?????? ???? ?????) “???? ???????” (??”? ??? ???? ??”? ???? ???). “????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ???? ?? ??’ ????? ?????… ?????? ?? ?? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?????
?????? ??? ????” (???? ??? ?????”? ??? 162
Also, this affects Yidden r”l.
Sam, there’s obviously a big difference between that and getting into a position he knows he is going to die from within a year.
If they were willing to bribe to get ito a suicidal position they must have had some righteousness.
I don’t understand how anyone would want to converse with a non-existent person.
Sam,
Its actually said in the name of Gdolim like Reb Shlomo Zalman (Ginzei Hakodesh 3 30, I haven’t seen it) that you shouldn’t put Torah Shebaal Peh on top of a Siddur (different from the Aruch Hashulchan), and its Kdusha is like Neviim and Ksuvim since it has psukim from Tanach in it.
It is like Neviim and Ksuvim because in YD 282:19 (from Megillah 27a), The Rama says the dinim of not putting Neviim and Ksuvim on a Chumash and a Chumash on a Sefer Torah is only with two Krichos, but in the same one Hakol Shari.
So the svoro might be its the same as with tfillos and tanach printed together.
Its not like a “Chumash” even though it has Torah in it because there’s a difference between gilyon and kricha (Rama YD 283:1)
But they don’t need to rely on the Aruch Hashulchan because they are possibly differentiating between printing together and placing one on another. Just like we see by putting a Sefer Torah on Neviim that you can’t but you can write them together.
Who are the Poskim who hold a Gemara goes on top of Nach and what is the svoro? The Ri Migash for one says it can’t and those mentioned before. ??”? ??”? ???? ??’ ??
On the ball,
even from the Aruch Hashulchan the Svoro goes further than the chshash of mixing up the Kdusha, rather, with their actual Kdusha. In fact, the Zohar says “???? ????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??”, not vice versa.
(?’ ??, ?”? ??,?)
Englishman,
the Rama (YD 282,19) says we are not makpid about the placement of ksuvim (divrei kabala,nevuah) on neviim (divrei kodesh, ruach hakodesh), even though they have different kdushos (Ran (Rif Megilla 8,2).
I mean Lot’s wife.
In any case, Josephus says he saw Lot in ???????? ???????, so its Josephus.
Its feels like some people here suffer from chronic Schadenfreude and gneivas daas. If you care so much about Torah which i suspect you dont, why do you let it go on? Its kind of suspicious that some of our “outspoken” “friends” get a strange pass that they don’t deserve. Can we please get some feedback from the “mods” who say they dont have time to responds but do to other unrelated posts?! You can have fun in the CoffeeRoom without whats going on here too, you know. Oh and while your at it post the post you deleted for no apparent reason!
I would be upright and not immature when people ask me serious quetions and requests and save that if ever for another time and another screen name and ignore silly requests and fraternizations, to give this forum a semblamce of respect, structure, and normalcy. And I would be more lenient on some posts and not hypocritically lenient on others.
Sam, are you sure the Chizkuni holds it wasnt actual? Its a bifeirushe Gemara.
????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????: ???? ???? ??”? ??”? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??”? ??”? ???? ???????
??”? ???? ???? ??’ ??? ? from Brachos 54b
Berlin, why do you imagine that?
Sam i dont know if they had translations either im not talking about that. Im talking about how the translated it into english in speech.
Sam you didnt yet address what i first wrote. About what you did address i dont know the gdorim of lo silbash but how could you say society doesnt wear clothing that way when minei ubei people from that society still do wear those clothes? If youll say something like rov and miut the burden of proof is upon you to prove that that is the case.
I dont see how not being able to do determine when or how has anything to do with why he does it. As for the first sentence, i was saying that these are not just gadol stories per say but something that had an uvechein in torah and mitzvos which is more likely to hasten moshiachs coming. Though admittedly i didnt explain why anything besides for tzdaka had a connection (though ahavas yisroel is connected to it). I probably got thrown off track because your response seemed to indicate that you were trying to completely contradict what i said by saying absolutely “gedolim stories is not tzedaka” when (in retrospect) clearly all it did was address a technical aspect in my response not the essence, which you waited to do till now, which i wonder about. In any case, consider the words of the rambam in Hilchos Tshuva Perek 3 Halacha 4:
???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ????. ??? ?? ????? ???? ???? ????? ????. ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ?????. ??? ???? ??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ?? ????? ????? ??????. ????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ????. ????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ????????? ?? ????? ????:
If Sam says something I can and will assume that you said something near the opposite. Hence, my comments. And i did (just now) look up the thread and my posts seem at least somewhat relevant but its hard for me to read through a whole thread on one foot even when it is current to be exactly sure. Ever heard of the term “lihoir”? Im not coming here and guessing anything besides for what i wrote in the first line and the subject had something to do with that. i think thats enough to go by. And now youre telling me it has nothing to do with it. I dont see why not.
I dont know where to look, but anyways I said i wasnt talking halachikly, i was just being meir a m”r that seemed to indicate that kfira is more severe. Would you agree to that? Im going to bring more mekoros (halachik this time) right now if they were already mentioned or its off topic feel free to not respond. See haora 6 and 7 in this link, http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=15949&st=&pgnum=314&hilite=
Sam how did the Yidden used to translate the Torah into English?