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Shouldn’t that be separdic ?
And tepillin ?Avi k
I think you missed my point
I was just trying to prove that having / not having a bashert has zero effect on getting married.
As we see thousands of Jews from birth who never end up married, plenty of geirim who marry, ( I personally know one who I know married a Jew from birth so that should give more complication to the question. Did that specific Jew not have a bashert? Did she have but not marry him? Did the ger have a bashert, did he just steal someone else’s bashert? ), and as pointed out nobody is ready to go on record stating that even all those that get married, married their bashert.So I’m not sure the point of the question.
Whatever bashert means, it clearly does not Equate with chances for getting married.Millhouse
Why so hard to understand?
Let me preface, I have no knowledge of what uncle Ben is talking about, but what his post is saying is
Formerly the school said, you work 5 hours a day times 5 days a week times 38 weeks = 950 hours.
We will pay you 55000$
So it’s about 56$ an hour.
So they get a pay stub listing 56$ an hour.
Now they tell the teachers,
We are going to be paying out your 55000 over twelve moths so instead of 56$ an hour it’s going to say 42$ an hour.
No big deal it’s the same 55000$ a year.
Oh but by the way you will need to work two weeks in the summer to keep your job.
And guess what? The teacher can’t make any official complaint because there will be a pay stub for those weeks.I HAVE NO IDEA IF ANY OF THE ABOVE IS FACT. I’M JUST EXPLAINING HIS POST CAUSE MILLHOUSE WAS FINDING IT DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND
Your most welcome ry
Yes
Is there another side. I think there is only my side. I’m perfectly willing to listen but you never present. I’ll be going now. Stop making noise.
See I told you you have nothing to say.Oh
And by the way I hope you don’t use umbrellas.
If hashem wanted you to stay dry during a rainstorm, you’d have feathers like a duckRy23
If I were you I’d make sure not to leave my house without being dressed snazzy
I hired a photographer to take your picture as you leave your house and I’m putting it on social mediaAvi k
I don’t get your commentSo then Joseph, I ask you
What’s the difference if one has a bashert Thousands of people have a bashert and don’t get married and as dy alluded to, many people get married to, not their bashert.
So basically it’s just a question of celestial accounting?
Curiosity?
Or maybe if it can be proved that they don’t have one you would recommend to stay away from marrying them because it for sure won’t be the bashert?
To that last choice he recommend paying close attention to the layning Monday morning.
Some story about a convert named Ruth and a guy who didn’t want to marry her and an old guy who did and had some grandkids with her
A David, a messiah, seems like that old guy did pretty good marrying that convert.
But maybe you would argueJoseph
Do the thousands of unmarried girls have basherts ?
How about the thousands of unmarried boys?So share!
Are you offering it cold. ?
By the bottle or by the cup?
Where can I get it?
What hours?
Thanks In advanceum
that line is in my quote
please read fully before accusing me of willful omissionyou choose to say your hinging most of your argument on that, thats ok
dont forget, i dont have time to search , but your the one who posted “i can only comment based on what you wrote. not intent”From Joseph”s post
by virtue of it being the primary and exclusive
From the dictionary
primary: noun
plural primaries
Definition of primary
1 : something that stands first in rank, importance, or valueExclusive: single: sole
So according to Joseph we have a language that is at once the first of multiple languages and also the only language.
And I’m the one with the English comprehension issues
As to your second half.
I’d really appreciate if you could quote the exact lines from your post that I maliciously left out.
I just reread your post multiple times
It consists of three parts ( after you state :as For the subject at hand)
1) an exegesis on holiness in general
2) application and limitations of said parameters to Yiddish
3) preemptive responses to hypothetical attacks on your postI cut and pasted number 2 fully.
So I am really at a loss as to what you are accusing me of in terms of dishonesty.
It’s fairly easy to make that claim. I think it will be more difficult to back it up.
And that’s aside from the fact that you yourself state that your post is the same idea as Joseph albeit lengthier.
Joseph”s post I quoted entirely.As to ignorance of history, yeah I’ve been saying that all along. If you would just read what I wrote, I was pretty open about the fact that I don’t really know much of the history. No great discovery by you, there.
You should reread that thread. Laskern is closer. The argument there was NOT (As was pointed out numerous times) that it is holy because it was “spoken by Jews”
So I went back to that thread and here is some of what I found.
JosephParticipant
Yiddish is holy by virtue of it being the primary and exclusive language of Jews for over a thousand years. Even if it is our chol language.And some guy with a screen name ubiquitin wrote the following gem
“Yiddish was the Jewish language for about 1000 years (give or take depending on your source) . That makes it special? sacred? important? How can it not sure it wasnt used exclusivly used for “holy” talk but it was used by holy people, were all of them frum as some posters claim others are claiming, of course not, but as a group it was spoken by the am hanivchar, it is unquestionably a Jewish language, the jews being a holy people, we have consecrated it making it holy (or scared/important/special since I’m not clear on what exactly holy means.”Maybe I have difficulty with the holy English language, (which as I pointed out before was clearly spoken by jews before their expulsion from England in 1290 making English an older Jewish language than Yiddish which oldest inscription is from a German machzor circa 1300’s ) but to me it seems pretty clear that these two posters at least, namely a Joseph and a Mr ubiquitin are certainly utilizing The idea that the fact that it has been used by jews for a long long time, infuses it with holiness? Speciality? Sacredness? Importance?
Ubiq
Perhaps
Or maybe I just meant
The supposed holiness of Yiddish which is Man made and would need some sort of mechanism to infuse it with holiness
As opposed to something created by hashem which can be intrinsically holyIt’s not an anomaly
It’s just the first time something real was brought up
It’s hard to find serious m. M. For something completely made up. Like the holiness of a man made language.
Before ubiq jumps on me from Aramaic
The gemora says that תרגום אונקלוס was given at Sinai.
So it’s not man madeTotally off topic but someone mentioned flowers at a grave.
Reb Yaakov galinsky said, he was once asked to officiate at a burial of a wealthy non religious family.
He knew a nice tear jerker of a speech would result in a nice check for his yeshiva and kolel But when they showed up with armloads of flowers he couldn’t hold back.
He told them, if you believe in the afterlife and eternity of the soul, so he needs mitzvahs, mishnayos , and kaddish.
And if you don’t believe in it, so why are you wasting money on flowers, he can’t know about them anyway.He said, I didn’t get a check, but by the next year they were saying kaddish on the yartzeit .
Just that you can shmooze any time of day you want.
It’s tedious thoughProbably by now most transactions in the United States are self check out
It’s called amazon
And he won’t rest till he dies or gets it allNo I don’t think you are
Let me explainIn a different thread, some posters posited, that Yiddish became a holy language, by dint of the fact that it has a long history of being spoken by Jews and / because much Torah has been communicated through it.
Therefore this poster is asking, if that applies today to English being as you have the same ideas, although obviously not the same history.
Namely, many jews speak it and a tremendous amount of Torah is learned and taught in it as well as many prayers are said using it.
We do know that until the expulsion of jews from England I believe in the 1200’s? There were jews living in England so presumably they spoke and learned in English as well as Hebrew.
So perhaps that gives English the holiness history as well.
Are we therefore to conclude that English is a holy language?
That seems to be the general idea of his post.
I’ll be happy to try to clarify any further questionsLook in the משנה ברורה I believe he addresses that point
There are many פוסקים who agree
There are Shitos that you can use English too
Because the point is for everyone in כלל ישראל to know Chumash!!!
Not some dubious idea of preserving / utilizing a language that may or may not be “holy ”
The reason for doing it in אונקלוס (as well if necessary) is because there is a tremendous amount of gems in there that one would not get from just translating Chumash.
Most of them are brought out in rashi.Ubiq
No it doesn’t surprise me at all.
I didn’t say adults should learn שנים מקרא ואחד תרגום.
Your response is not really responding to my point.
I said instead of teaching five or six year olds their Chumash into Yiddish, why don’t we use אונקלוס and teach it in Aramaic.
As you so eloquently showed, it has the benefit of having some kind of chashivus.
(BTW the medrash doesn’t say it’s inclusion in the Torah makes it holy, it says the fact that it is there proves that it is)Ubiq
It seems to be 74:12 not 74:14
And yes that would seem to be a good proof.
For Aramaic.
Not for Yiddish
Which brings back my earlier question.
Why is there no push for Aramaic
Like oh I don’t know, maybe we should dig up and old sefer that I have in my house when teaching kids Chumash. Instead of translating it into Yiddish, why don’t we translate it into Aramaic.
I’d be willing to provide the translation from this old sefer .
For free.
It’s very accurate Aramaic.
It’s called אונקלוס.
But no. Let’s leave that out and teach in holy Yiddish.And to yehoshuaaron footnote 10
If so, by now English is holy too.
And so are quite a number of other languages. So Yiddish may be holy, but it’s not uniquely special.Done
It’s not holyA Chinese person who was collecting the pits told me it’s a ginko.
I think that’s a Chinese pronunciation of the English ” stinko “Bump
Bump
Yes
AOC floated her new green deal. Part of it is to rebuild every building in America on the government dime.
Inzereh geribineh chevrah (that’s holy Yiddish for ” our multi talented guys”) convinced her that while they endlessly debate it in Congress, they should also do a pilot program in boro park to see real life impact in non laboratory conditions.Sorry you moved out of boro park.
You could have had a brand new zero emissions home for free.
Oh well
I guess you’ll just have to be from the “others ” who need to pick up the tabBut maybe it proved Poe”s law?
I can prove it.
There were Jews a thousand years ago
Jews talk Yiddish because it’s holy
Ergo
Jews were speaking Yiddish a thousand years ago
SimpleUbiq
I don’t understand your last post
But we can still be friendsUbiq
And if there is a value to holding on to an old language simply because that’s how we conversed for say a thousand years, why did we stop Aramaic?
Ladino?
(Spanish?)May 29, 2019 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm#1735500REPLY
ubiquitinParticipant
JosephIS YIDDISH HOLY?
“Wasn’t the haskalah conducted in Yiddish? …Yiddish theater?”
Those aren’t Avoda zara. A practice taken up for Avoda zara like riasing hands during davening, korban on bama becomes assur that is why trees were stopped .
“why did we stop Aramaic?”
We didn’t stop it , it is still used for much of davening . with time it fell into disuse I don’t think there was an effort to stop it.
The above is your post
You were responding to my question as to why we stopped using Aramaic.
You wrote
“We didn’t stop it , it is still used for much of davening . with time it fell into disuse I don’t think there was an effort to stop it.”
Not sure why you would deny itAs to more gathering
The question is
Is Yiddish holyNot is tefillah holy
Sure tefillah is holy but that proves nothing about the holiness of Yiddish
The discussion is about Yiddish in general
Same answer to your other question, sure nobody would change the language of a tefillah from a.k.h. but that doesn’t make Aramaic holy. Again it is the tefillah that is holy.I didnt mention the Maharil Diskin, but because your asking no why would I think that?
True you didn’t mention him but I was “gathering “more information about your position.
Being as the story claims he wouldn’t talk, at least not to an important person, (and hashem is certainly as important) in the foul language of Hebrew, and being as you In your line of questioning seem to equate casual conversation with tefillah, it should follow that he would not talk to hashem using that foul language called Hebrew(I don’t believe the story,
I believe all parts of tefillah are holy independently of which language they are in,
So I am not bothered by this question.)So we have on authority that rabbi miller holds its holy
And a משנה ברורה quoted as saying it’s חול
By the way in ספר ח”ח by the לאו של ביטול תורה He says nobody has an excuse not to learn, because even if you don’t understand Hebrew
יכול ללמוד מספרים המעותקים ללשון אשכנז כמו צאנה וראנה
Do what you’d like with that quoteC TL
I don’t get your point
To be pedantic, Israel does not have a president either.
They have a נשיא.Jackk
In your opinion trump should have been impeached from day one just the republicans were protecting him. ?Did he need to do anything to get impeached? Or is it enough that the democrats didn’t want him?
Also, having an agenda in no way negates someone’s point.
MADD was started by a woman who lost a child to a drunk driver. She has an agenda to stop other mothers from going through that grief.
Is she wrong? Should we allow drunk driving?
Should we not give her a platform to rail against drunk driving because “she has an agenda “?And by the way a Bamah was assur when the mishkan stood in nov and givon.
when they were destroyed it became permitted again.
Once we had the mishkan in shilo they became permanently assur.
Zero to do with a.z.
SorryUbiq,
From what I can gather, the conversation here is about speaking your daily business and perhaps even explaining your learning in Yiddish versus English ET Al.
To that I asked why push for English? Why did we stop Aramaic? Your response that נוסח התפילה contains Aramaic. Is off track. For whatever reason it was made in Aramaic, no-one I could think of would have the temerity to touch it. So even we’re it to serve no purpose it would still remain in Aramaic. It’s not germane to this discussion at all.
My comment “so is Hebrew ” was a bridge comment.It meant
So is Hebrew used for much of tefillah. Do you think the mahariĺ diskin who has been mentioned here numerous times as unwilling to converse with a Talmid chochom due to the fact that he spoke in “gasp ” Hebrew and not Yiddish (IMHO the story is probably nothing less than מוציא שם רע on the mahariĺ diskin) Would not say those parts of davening because they were not in Yiddish?
Or would even you grant that obviously the language used for prayers is not indicative of the correct Language to be utilized for casual conversation.
Therapy proving my point that pointing out that Aramaic is used in our prayers is not germane to this conversation. (yes the question was addressed to you)Quote
with time it fell into disuse I don’t think there was an effort to stop it.”
How do you know?” end quote
I don’t know. You wrote it. I was responding to you.
Nice to know you are posting without knowing.(for the record I speak a fluent Yiddish as well as other languages. I have nothing against Yiddish. It’s a language like any other. The reason there are so many awesome sayings and thoughts in Yiddish is simply because the ones who spoke it were on average the top brains in the world. So of course it will be chock full of amazing sayings. So is Aramaic. For the same reason. The חכמי התלמוד were the top brains in the world. Bingo. The language they spoke is going to contain brilliance.
It’s not about the language. It’s about the people using and molding the language.)Ubiq
This line is genius“I guess it’s better to call it Creole German than Chatzi Nazi”
Why is it genius?
It’s on topic
It’s sharp,
hits the point,
while being humorous at the same time,
it’s terse,
and I’m guessing it’s self made (meaning He made it up here, not once heard it called that and applied it here) .And yes I love it too
A world no longer sick .
Any other questions your honor?Something to ponder,
It is brought that a reason “Hebrew “(biblical Hebrew) is called lashon hakodesh is because it does not have specific word for the male female private parts
As one poster (tongue in cheek I hope) pointed out, Yiddish is the only language whose foul words made it directly into English
Maybe I’m not so knowledgeable, but I was only able to come up with two such words, both of which are the slang for a word whose non existence in Hebrew is specifically what makes Hebrew holypractice taken up for Avoda zara like riasing hands during davening
, korban on bama ????
What does korban on bama have to do with a. z.?why did we stop Aramaic?”
We didn’t stop it , it is still used for much of davening .
That’s really wonderful. Has nothing to do with the conversation though
So is Hebrew for that matter
Do you think the mahariĺ diskin didn’t say those parts of prayers because they were in Hebrew not in Yiddish? And he only wanted to speak Yiddish?with time it fell into disuse I don’t think there was an effort to stop it.
So why is there an effort to prevent Yiddish from falling into disuse?After perusing all of the above, I have a multi part question
Next week is shavuos. It’s brought in halacha that we no longer put trees in shul because that has been Co opted by the gentiles for their holiday.
Now take Yiddish
Wasn’t the haskalah conducted in Yiddish?
Maybe I’m wrong
Yiddish theater?And if there is a value to holding on to an old language simply because that’s how we conversed for say a thousand years, why did we stop Aramaic?
Ladino?
(Spanish?)CT lawyer
Obama would have been Prime Minister
Your can’t just transfer president president
The American president is the equivalent of the prime minister in parliamentary run countriesKY
“I still don’t see any brilliance in it.”Like I said (twice, three times? )
“Of course If you don’t like it that is fine too”
It will be ok, don’t worry about it.Thanks for your permission to not like it.
You can stop assuaging my feelings I was never worried about it
You made the switch fairly smoothly but I caught you anyway
I said I don’t see the brilliance you claimed it was.
To which you respond I don’t have to like it??
What does one have to do with the other? Do I like every brilliant lined?
Do I dislike every simple statement?
No! I give upI still don’t see any brilliance in it.
But now I have no hope that you’ll be able to enlighten me, so I’m done for thisSee, what I did is called explaining
What you did is called giving an example
They are not the sameUncle Ben
You forgot the parodyAnd being about people?
It’s saying when someone parodies an extreme position, being as the position in and of itself is so extreme as to sound like a parody itself, one cannot know if it is being parodied by another or being seriously defended, unless there is an outside indication?Did I get it right now?