I’m not looking to fix others problems
You asked why people aren’t running to live in e y
I am answering, it’s no different today then it’s been since the churban.
You claim it’s a Jewish state
To that I am responding it’s as Jewish as bagels and lox.
Aka Jewish in name only. A meaningless moniker.
It’s anti religious in the fullest sense.
And I’m not so sure about your comparison to achav
Remember an amora got in trouble for comparing himself to Menasha

Donald Trump clearly does things favorable to the Jews while not shying away from infuriating the Arabs.
He is not known as a lover of blacks, and he clearly is starting up with south Americans.
To say it’s all part of some huge psychological game where he is doing exactly the opposite of his desires and really he hates Jews and it’s all some grand scheme, is firstly beyond normal belief, requires a pre-conceived belief that he “hates Jews don’t mix me up with facts ”
And secondly would mean if is some sort of genius and great actor! Exactly the opposite of what those same people claim that he is a stupid loose canon.
So trump haters, take your pick
Is he a genius Jew hater?
Or perhaps he really is a Jew lover and he is exactly what he seems to be
Average intelligent shoot from the hip ball it like he sees it and a Jew lover

Hpo
Thank-you for reiterating my point
However as I mentioned, the question of whether everyone should move to א”י is an old question. Nobody that you can bring can prove anything because there are plenty of equally strong opinions on the other side.

exacturation
A perfectly calibrated hyperboly

Avi k

Under plans published Thursday in coordination with the Transport, National Infrastructures and Road Safety Ministry, the municipality will grant licenses for 24 new shared taxi routes to operate in the city on Shabbat. While bus companies are not permitted to run services in Tel Aviv on that day, shared taxi routes are not affected by similar prohibitions.

A day trip to Masada and the Dead Sea is not a bad idea to do on Saturday. Our National Parks are open on the Jewish Sabbath.

MORE CHILLUL SHABBOS: Ramat Gan Gives The Green Light For Shabbos Bus Service

Charish Residents Protest Chilul Shabbos

Do I really need to go on?
Any Jewish character to the secular state is a remainder of the original deals.
It is all under attack from your heroes in the Jewish government.
Feh
News flash
Most government offices, many stores and banks are closed in Brooklyn too

OK
I wasn’teaching history
Marx was Jewish but he didn’t run the state
I thought one of them was also.
Sorry
But the point I was trying to illustrate I think remains the same

And besides,
What does it mean “a Jewish state “?

Avi k
I held back for a long time because I don’t really believe you will answer seriously
Is a avigdor liberman your idea of a Jewish state?
Is municipal חילול שבת across the country your idea of גאולה?
Are gay parades your idea of a nation בתיקונו ?

Are you so blind as to not see the spiritual decimation taking place in front of your face and you sit there and do nothing to stop it??

Why should a yid run to see all the חורבן being perpetrated ר”ל to ארצינו הקודש
, מכם בכם??!!??

It’s not a simple thing to move to א”י and watch public trampling of תורתינו הקדושה.
Bumper stickers proudly declaring חילול שבת
Mayors of cities openly declaring war on הקב”ה

Are you not aware of all that is going on???
It’s a total חורבן
That is the Zionist utopia.
That is enough reason.

May we all be זוכה to move to א”י בתיקונו. בקרוב.

I am not coming ח”ו to say bad about ארצינו הקודש.
But unfortunately the land is under the control of רשעים גמורים that it’s a מצוה to publicize and insult.
And I’m not even getting into the tremendous amount of people who fall into a grey area, or the question of the army that we are all aware is just a loaded topic.
There is enough that is impossible to justify one need not even deal with the grey.

When you will explain how all this takes place in א”י בגאולתו then I’ll be more than happy to discuss the ג שבועות

Neville
A few questions for you.
Mods I hope you will let these questions through, they are not so heavy
😁
Are you in New York?
Are you always female or just today?
How often do you switch?
Are you black and female? Or black or female?
Are you a black Muslim female?
Does the Muslim in together with the female or are they like separate gears and can be changed individually?
I only ask because I am thinking of doing it myself and I need some guidance
Can I switch my gender to be rich ?
Will that help me get a mortgage?
Why can I only switch my gender? Why can’t I switch yours? Yesterday I felt that my neighbor was a recliner.
I sat on it and they called the cops.
I told the cops I self identify as a free person. So they were not going to lock me up, but one of the cops told me that it identifies me as a suspect
I told it that I identify it as a fraud.
We agreed that I will stand for the next 24 hours as punishment for sitting on my neighbor and the cops left.
I readjusted my directional compass and promptly stood up across my bed.
I just want to know if I made any judgment errors

Naftush,
You think the leviim in the bais hamikdash just sang the trop ?

Amil
To beat a dead horse
Why are you calling it birther bs.?
Do you have any proof that loser was actually born in Hawaii other than his lying mouth?

Neville I just went back to the Rambam.
Besides what I wrote before, the Rambam is putting arayos in the side of between man and God, saying it is missing the component of destroying civilization.
You sure you want to put rape in that category?
That would make you a greater outlier than me, as you’d be claiming rape has no “בין אדם לחבירו ” component!!!

To ubiq I’d ask based on that Rambam,
edited – please, no more questions…

I actually meant
“come with me little neshamahleh”
But I got confused because they are so similar in message
Obviously according to the op a bad goyish message

Ubiq
You like the Rambam so let’s see what he says
הלכות איסורי ביאה יב-ז ”עון זה אע”פ שאין בו מיתת ב”ד אל יהי קל בעיניך….
פרק יב-יג אל יהי עוון זה קל בעיניך מפני שאין בו מלקות מן התורה שגם…
Now I ask you
What is he worried about?
Why would I think it’s not a serious offense?
The answer is clear, to me at least , from his words.
Because it’s missing the punishment you may think it’s not so serious. So the Rambam needs to tell you that even so,
it is serious.
And that’s the secret of all the exceptions you may find.
The rule, as seen from this Rambam and other places, is that the severity of the crime can be seen from its punishment. Of course there are exceptions. But you or I can’t be the one to decide that.
If the Rambam were to say rape is the most serious crime, I’d have to agree with him (unless of course other ראשונים argued on him)
But he doesn’t.
In the Rambam you brought, he has a whole list of crimes and he neglects to bring rape!
Yes it can be included in some of the general ones he listed, but so can many others, and you can’t prove it belongs there.

ubiq
btw
my neighbor thinks scratching his car is the worst offense you can do
he thinks its at least as bad as murder
how would you respond ?

on the news there is a story about a protest against legal trophy hunting”its beyond abhorrent”
yet abortion on demand is a right
your really going to judge severity by peoples feelings?

ubiq its also a lav according to some rishonim but i forgot which one

Ubiq I made a huge post last night which I guess was to hot for the mods to let through
Part of it referenced
יומא פג-א
מאכילים אותו הקל הקל
Look in rashi there
It’s clear you judge severity based on punishment
He says it straight out
I keep sticking to it because it’s true

Rockstar
Your jumbling.
Molech is clearly spoken about, I was waiting for it to be brought up. It’s asked as a open question “how can it be that one and he gets killed but more not “?
According to you what’s the question. There is no clear rational to a punishment scale
The premise of the whole question is predicated on my contention.
Since the severity of the punishment indicates the severity of the crime, how can it be that one kid and he gets killed and more he goes free? How can more kids equal a less severe offense.
To which a chiddush is revealed that in this case it’s so heinous that no earthly punishment suffices.

(according to your logic, raping a divorced girl is worse than raping a married woman because by the married Woman you get killed but here nothing?)

I don’t know the Rambam you are referring to but from the context I’d imagine he means you can kill him right then to stop the act.
That’s not a punishment. So you can’t bring a proof from that. It’s more like בא במחתרת
Which does apply in some cases of stealing.

Orchodosh

Those are payments that every mazik of another person must deal with
They have nothing to do with rape
They apply to it just like they apply if I give someone a black eye
Which is more to my point. The Torah views the rape like any other person to person hezek
You Pay what you damaged
If you do it to a girl who for whatever reason is not bothered by it (I’m discussing hypothetical don’t get sidetracked by telling me it’s not possible) you would not have to pay those payments.
If that same hypothetical girl was married though, yet would get killed even though she doesn’t mind

Ergo it’s worse to rape a married woman than a single one.
Happens to be over there the issue also isn’t the coercion factor. It’s the fact that she is married.

Tas
You are obviously factually correct in your first example. However that is only על פי סוד. When dealing with it on a practical level it’s a מחלוקת if you take that into account.
(when someone is forced to choose between that and an illicit relationship)

As far as your second example, it’s simply because of it being אבוזריהו דגילוי עריות which has the same dinim as ג”ע for this פרט

Nope I don’t ask that, I use it as an example where the severity Of an onesh is not indicative of the severity of the aveira.

Ah but my question was only rhetorical.
And my answer responds to your point anyway
You don’t know that there is no severe onesh for making a Zionist

Ubiq
What your missing is clarity and definition to the word “bad ”
It’s an ambiguous word
I am using it in a clinical legal way.
You seemingly are using it in an emotional context.
A court does not belong meting out punishment based on their feelings.
That’s what we know of as אין עונשין אלא אם כן מזהירים or in sports lingo, you can’t change the rules mid game.
The idea of התראה is that a person can only get punished, when they undertook to do the crime knowing they will get the specific punishment. That’s why if you warn them they will get a light punishment and it is an error, you cannot give the correct severe one. Therefore the Torah lays out specific guidelines as to what punishment each crime gets. Rape of a single girl gets שקל 50 and married to her for life.
Consensual with a married lady gets death.
Which would you say is “badder “?
Of a divorced girl there is no clearly spoken punishment .
Should we say that’s because it’s worse than the other two so it’s so bad there is no earthly punishment?
I can’t figure out that logic.
That’s why I chose to say, if an unmarried girl carries a clearly defined punishment, and a married woman is clearly a worse punishment, and a single divorced girl has nothing written, it’s probably because it’s not as bad.
Just logic
You want a source for the judging of the severity of a crime by the punishment?
Start with the Gemmara that asks which is worse, ע”ז ג”ע ושפיחת דמים or שנאת חינם ?
To which the Gemmara responds
בירה תוכיח שחזר לראשונים ולא חזר לאחרונים

There are plenty of other Gemmaras, as I said all over סנהדרין .

Syag
You went off topic there
We are discussing rape
The Gemmara discusses it being done in the presence of witnesses who warn him
Yes there are dinim for it being done with witnesses

It’s not assumption. The Gemmara in many places in סנהדרין when discussing the different עונשים for various crimes, clearly states that the more severe crime carries the more severe punishment.

Ubiq as I just wrote, it’s not an assumption.
Answer to #2 making him into a Zionist is worse (I don’t know if today’s “Zionists ” count) as חזל clearly state גדול המחטיאו יותר מן ההרגו
So why is there no punishment you will ask?
Great question.
I will offer a few possible answers.
1) the שו”ע says you can’t be מחלל שבת to save someone from שמד there is a huge סוגיא there discussing this very question. Look there. It’s probably the same (if I remember correctly one way out was that a person can always do תשובה so מחטיאו is not final whereas if you kill him it’s over)
2) you can’t give התראה as there is no actual time of “making him a Zionist ” as opposed to the moment he pulls the trigger.
3) who says there is no punishment ?? Much as we saw before, a list of גדולי פוסקי זמננו who say a molester is a רודף due to the ultimate outcome, who says we would not give סקילה to the Zionist maker based on מסית ומדיח ?? In which case he is getting a worse punishment as killing gets הרג which is less severe than סקילה

ubiq
Is it wrong for a goy to be meanes a woman, yes or no.

yes its definately wrong

i never went back to that thread so i didnt realize what you were driving at
in that thread the question was not addressed to me
sorry for the confusion

ubiq
the brisker rav says
on the statement “if we would not have the torah we would learn … from the …
“but now that we do have the torah we do not do things because of our understanding
we only do what the torah says we dont learn it on our own”
same with that rashi.which btw does not say what you claim at all
it says were they not commanded they are worthy that they should be commanded
in other words as opposed to chukim which are not understandable, these are.
nowhere indicating that we would be chayav without the torah commanding us.
thats why i like chapter and verse so i can look it up!

ubiq
quote
“KY
“I keep going back to punishment because that was my original question.”

But you only asked that after my question.”
end quote

really?????

here is my original comment from the question on this thread
quote
As a test, I’ll repeat a question I asked a while ago on a different thread, which got no answer there.
What should be the punishment for someone who is מאנס a woman who was previously married and is now divorced

now with a break put in cause you obviously missed it

As a test, I’ll repeat a question I asked a while ago on a different thread, which got no answer there.
What should be the*************** punishment **************for someone who is מאנס a woman who was previously married and is now divorced

not sure what is unclear about that
thats why i like chapter and verse

im still waiting for the gemorah you quoted which im not familiar with
and mareh mekomos from your rav

Are you not aware that “som tasim aleicha melech” is a mitzvah? I don’t understand why you dismiss this so quickly
because of the passuk before it
אשימה עלי מלך**** ככל הגויים ****אשר סביבותי
and look at the haftarah of korach we just lained where shemuel tells the yiddin how bad it is that they asked for a king
(yes the ramban says its a mitzvah to ask ****just like maakeh)

phil you just went nasty for no reason
but ill answer you anyway
the torah enjoyns us not to act out upon our emotions
we are not forbidden from having them
additionally look at the story of dina
the emotion is correct in its anger in certain cases
i am discussing punishment
see above

Amil zola
Mr Obama
Never proved his legal right to be president after there was sufficient cause for uncertainty