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squeak- I was referring to the damage that is incurred through Adar purim shtick such as blowing up the walls in the bathroom, or throwing furniture in water etc. I have no idea what you do when you’re drunk, and I wouldn’t assume that you cause any physical or emotional damage in the process.
GAW-according to the Editors post it would seem there is a machlokes on what the issur is in getting “dead drunk”.
if that’s what it means than it seems quite challenging for someone to be dead drunk and davening maariv simultaneously.
ok, so how does everyone resolve the “innocent destruction”?
Nice. I heard that the reason glass is used is because glass is something that can be reblown and used again. Message being that we have the capablities to fix things if we enlist the help of Hashem. Also, it’s a sign that we temper this moment of such incredible happiness with the sadness of the fact that there’s no Bais Hamikdosh, but we know that just as glass can be reblown and fixed, so too will the B”HMK-IY”H speedily in our time.
sjs-yes that’s what a friend of mine told me in a few of the east coast schools. I believe that was the main purpose although I’m sure there were other reasons.
do the laws of nezek apply to purim shtik?
There are thousands of yidden where I live and unfortunately they are not yet Torah Observant–(we kiruv workers like to stay positive and say not yet frum).
It is so clear sometimes who the yiddeshe neshamos are- there is a massive need to be doing chessed, giving on all levels, helping other people. It is just bursting from within them. They don’t fill their needs in being givers with just one organization a year and then say they are patur.
And when it comes down to facing life and reality, their pintele yid does come out. They seek out a connection to Hashem and His Torah hakedosha, because deep down they know where the emes really is.
hmmmm-I would love to see the community I live in have bochurim drive around in a limo and collect tzedakah. I don’t think anyone would know what to do with themselves. It would probably make it on the front page news. The exposure to the concept of people collecting tzedakah would also be a nice chinuch opportunity.
could anyone kindly explain what dead drunk means? and if it means what I think it does, can anyone enlighten me as to why drunkeness on purim needs to be depicted in such a way?
ames-probably meant to type identity
R’ Jothar–There was a friend of mine’s husband who was seriously considering the idea of quitting work and going to learn in kollel just for that reason. They make just enough money to not get a break in tuition, but then after they pay tuition are in trouble in certain areas financially. I told them to go for it, but they thought I was being facetious.
Interesting point-many of the yeshivos and bais yaakovs are getting rid of soda machines and no longer allowing soda at siyumim etc. So, coca-cola classic will become a thing of the past when it comes to finding it in our children’s schools….
R’ Editor, what does dead drunk mean?
If it is unadvised for women to be learning Torah she’b’al peh should women refrain from reading David S’s post?
cantoresq-continued hatzlacha in your pursuit
SJS- yes, I was referring to those not yet observant Jews, but I don’t think there is any leeway for any Yid who wants Torah to be a part of their progeny and future descendents. What to do about the overwhelming cost is a difficult dillema, but I know my feelings are give as much as you can, and do with less (and I don’t mean children as I will now explain.)
As far as children, no one knows how much light each neshama is supposed to bring into this world. The amount of tza’ar gidul banim is not something we have control over, and each person has to consult their Rov to make their own cheshbonos. But the hashkofa of understanding that each child is a brocha, and has a tafkid far beyond our human understanding, should help us and give us strength to realize that we have to throw that burden (of tuition) onto Hashem responsibly.
noitallmr–yes I have-and definitely one of the best mussar shmuessin I’ve heard/seen. The feeling I walked away with was–“these homes seem so free and emancipating–only the ol of Torah!”
It is quoted in some sifrei mussar that wealth is one of the hardest nisyonos is finding Hashem.
The whole point of galus is find out who we’re not and who we should not be in order to become who Hashem wants us to be. With the incredible loss of wealth in such a short period of time, I have heard in the name of an odom gadol, is a lack of Hester Panim, and we can find Hashem much more clearly through less gashmius.
I still maintain that a boy is looking to date a girl and not a chavrusa!
I guess it depends what we want to imprint on our “clean white papers”. The ink that first touches that paper is surely going to be making a deep and lasting impression. For children to grow up with the notion (when it comes to shidduchim-sorry had to throw it in there) that prince charming will come along and they go off into the sunset and live happily ever after is quite upsetting to those who face reality.
I’m not a fan of escapism.
cantoresq-I see how important a Torah education is to you and your family. I don’t really know you or your total picture, but I would suggest strongly that you do not go to a Conservative synagogue as a cantor.
Hashlech al Hashem ye’hvacha v’Hu ye’chalkelecha. Hashem can do anything-Surely Hashem sees your sincerity and I give you a brocha that you not have to compromise your religious standards.
To answer the above thread topic-a yeshiva education is worth our heritage. In my profession, the MAIN distinction between those who have a solid link to their Jewish Heritage, and those that worry daily whether their kids will marry someone Jewish, is the education they received.
The overwhelming majority of jewish children that receive a jewish education, and I would venture to say, 99.9% of those children that receive an authentic Torah education do not have to worry about the future lineage of their family.
I don’t have enough room here to expound on the countless stories I have of families who lament over the fact that they didn’t send their children to a Jewish Torah day school. The regret is enormous, and the pain they live with is sometimes immeasurable.
My humble suggestion to those out their who are eeking out the money to pay for tuition, and especially those that cut back on cleaning help and extras, the dividends for that are eternal. It’s worth every ounce of effort, and if we put forth the effort truly l’shem shomayim Hashem will make sure that we will give the guarantors of His Torah that which we promised thousands of years ago.
I should probably put this in the “why do you come to the CR thread”, but I have to say it’s such a pleasure reading this thread. It’s so nice to see how yidden have such a sensitivity to real true tznius and it really means something. Halevai the people that I work with will one day have an appreciation for what is being discussed here.
GAW-if they don’t learn the proper math and skills to use money wisely in yeshiva then the parents must teach it to them.
In response to the situation you presented about the boy that thinks it will take away from his hasmada, I don’t know if it is wise for one to think that way. He should definitely be consulting his Rebbe. We know full well that the chofetz chaim didn’t think that way……sechel is surely in order here.
000646-Yes, I do understand that there will be those bochurim who will be drawn to a father in law who will help support, and I see the need for that. I know many parents who don’t really have a lot of money but want so badly for their children to be learning in Kollel as long as possible and carefully allocate money to help their children build a beautiful foundation. It’s done in a thought out balanced manner…not for the superfluous and extraneous imagined needs one sees in imbalanced situations.
Well, I’m not exactly sure how it works in Lakewood and other places, but I assume the school is “owned” by those who make the school policies. Just like a store can mandate “no shirt, no shoes, no service” a school has the right to make it’s rules. If you don’t like their rules, then don’t go there. Just like the school says, this is a school just for girls, then no one can make a fuss about the fact that they won’t accept their boy into the bais yaakov. They’re not telling you that you don’t have a choice whether or not you want a tv in your home. But they surely have the right to say if you want to be in this school these are the conditions.
000646–I suggest that we need to teach our children some very important fundamentals.
(sorry, I’m a list person)
1)how to balance a checkbook-meaning be completely responsible when it comes to spending money. Be accountable and don’t spend unnecessarily. Always pay off credit cards fully, and if you can’t then buy less.
2)learn how to live modestly and be proud of it. Feel the essence of what it’s like to live with less and enjoy it.
3)Teach our bochurim how to be smart with in between time to help out with bringing in money-tutoring, learning with others who will pay him etc.
4)Teach our girls (by living it) the true zechus of what it is to be married to a ben torah, and to appreciate the mesiras nefesh, and to demystify the notion that it’s simple and easy. Hard work isn’t bad, it’s just hard.
GAW absolutely-I like that approach (the giver approach not the mishna)
yes sjs, I hear the practical end…in that case it is a nisayon….but I do believe b’laiv molay that there are good shtark bochurim that are looking for a girl who will be moser nefesh for Torah, and don’t want to rely on the “money is the answer to my learning” approach.
There is so much fluff and icing in this thought process, which when the essence of real life comes out, the reality of what life should be in the deepest sense of ruchiniyus, it comes down like a heavy load. This comes from a lack of real emesdik thinking, and an aversion to being real.
oy nebach-so what you’re saying is we can change the name of this thread to: is a boy looking to date a girl or a well secured (stocked for 6+years) bank account?
I am so not a fan of cynicism-can’t we all just change the system and demand better from the yeshivos, our bochurim, and the overall sense that money is the answer to being able to pursue a kollel lifestyle at the outset? (and please don’t tell me that koheles says “v’hakesef ya’aneh es ha’ kol…..)
yes i know this topic has been regurgitated in other threads, but we don’t have to continue in the path of “well this is what’s normal and expected”. Normal is an overrated virtue when it comes to this.
Feif Un–the east coast booming cities are in a position to make such mandates for their school to have such standards. The way it seems to me is, if parents wish to send their children to such a school, then they have to follow those standards. It doesn’t mean that the schools have now removed all options for parents to use their sechel and imagination to see to it that their children will use their scarce spare time wisely. And if a parent wants that TV/internet in their home, then they will have to either choose a different school, or rethink what takes precedence.
As far as being loaded with homework, that is the schools achrayus together with the parents to have good open communication to see how it is affecting their students/children. This partnership is crucial and a well balanced approach is a necessity in building well balanced children. Ultimately though, it is the parents who must do the parenting, and do the best they can despite the flaws of the school. We as parents of the future of klal yisroel owe it to ourselves and our children to have confidence in our parenting abilities and to instill in them a Torahdik approach to these challenges in life.
GAW-enlighten me please on this inyan of “having Gelt is a Mayylah”–does that mean the father in law? Does that mean that the girl should have a good paying job? Does that mean that “pas b’melach tochal” is not envogue in this generation l’chatchila? Please let me keep some of my naivete and tell me that not all “Top Yeshivos” will herald a call to only look for a rich girl…….
At the beginning of this thread there were opinions regarding school, it’s obligations to molding our children and the role of family.
An odom godol said that the home is the ikur place of chinuch, the school is the supplement.
I think parents need to have more self confidence in their abilities to be the ones to be truly mechanech their children and not be so incredibly reliant on the school to do the educating and parenting. The schools and yeshivos have their place, but ultimately it is the parents who must take resposibility to how they are mechanech their children.
That means parents have an achrayus to how they guide their children in their spare time-boys and girls.
ujm;gavra at work–that kind of training for girls must come from the home…It’s rare that a 10 month seminary experience could change around an attitude that was learned over 18 years–not impossible, but rare.
I find in the not so often occasions on my trips to the larger frum communities that there are many girls who sincerely want a ben Torah, who will shteig, and they want to sacrifice for a Torah home. They don’t fit the description of ujm at all, but have a challenging time with shidduchim none the less. Oh, and these girls know that the boy is looking to date a girl NOT a chavrusa.
moish01 – I have to say i’m not into junk, but kiruv junk is the best junk I deal with.
That being said, I think the new thread you started in SJS’s name was a good choice.
How about–will those who are technologically challenged be able to “make it” in the world without pursuing/purchasing items such as cell phones, computers, ipods, blackberries etc.?” or is it a must?
R’ Jay Matt19 thank you
ok, but in the shidduch lingo I’ve never heard “she’s such a great woman!” or “which seminary did this woman go to?” or “Does this woman have a close relationship with her mentor/Rov” ……but I hear what you’re saying. Bottom line he’s not looking to date a chavrusa.
there is a national advertisement that comes out right before Purim (can’t remember which organization puts it out) with a picture of someone being put into an ambulance on a stretcher and the line reads in bold “THIS PURIM –DON’T GET CARRIED AWAY”.
nichnas yayin yotzo sod–before drinking make sure that you’re comfortable with the sod that will come out.
Also, does anyone know the mikor for those who sleep to achieve ad d’lo yoda-(and drink a little but not to the point of drunkeness)?
R’ Paysach Krohn quoted in a talk of his “A broken clock is right twice a day”
(point being to look at things positively)
so, it seems we have concluded that a boy is looking to date a girl-YES?
syag lachochma-very well said.
Maybe you can post on the other thread that talks about how to really feel someone’s happiness. (I think it’s on a different one-not 100% sure)
how about these topics:
1-why can’t some adults remember what it’s like to be a teenager?
2-is it true that there are a disproportionate amount of girls in shidduchim vs. guys? (have to have at least one shidduch oriented)
3-how can people overcome emotional attachments to gashmius
4-what are we/can we personally do for the yid/yidden that we know, that are not yet frum? (a personal favorite of mine)
I do have more but will start with this for now.
“Time is not days, hours, minutes-that is how you measure time. Time is being and doing.”
“Act like who you want to be, and realize you become what you do”
one more-(for men)-discovering chidushei Torah
AL2 I third ames’ brocha to you. remember, “al tehi birchas hedyot kal b’aynecha”–also heard variation- get a brocha from the kallah “al tehi birchas kallah hedyot b’aynecha”
May Hashem give you the koach to be b’simcha and to celebrate your simcha b’karov.
well said Feivel thank you. (I just try sometimes put the 9 kavim of speech to good use)
kapusta-yes-R Aryeh Levin
A Pashuta Yid–thank you for starting this thread!!!
Before tefilla was formalized that is what we yidden did.
It’s part of our spiritual DNA and I think that’s why it feels so good.
I once heard in a shiur for women, that if a woman could get in the habit of talking to Hashem about everything, even before she cooks, or goes to take carpool, or goes out to work, or is about to go shopping, it will infuse her day with meaning. She should talk to Hashem and ask for siyata dishmaya in every part of her day.
This could obviously apply to all elements of a man’s day as well. Talking to Hashem constantly- can be lifechanging, and makes a person feel that Hashem is a reality in their lives.
I think these are some of the things that make a person happy
1)resolution of doubt
2)realizing how much Hashem loves you
3)a sense of satisfaction with everything you are and have
4)the feeling of gratefulness at all the good Hashem gives you
5)the realization that no one or nothing has the ability to control your sense of happiness, being happy is a decision no matter what the circimstances. (Hashem gave us the ability to make that decision)
6)conquering a negative midah successfully
7)Being a giver
8)feeling the true happiness of others
R’ Moshe Feinstein was in his home with one of his talmidim, when an almana of a few weeks came to speak with R’ Moshe. The talmid went to the back of the room to watch quietly, as the woman poured her heart out to R’ Moshe. As the woman finished, the talmid observed R’ Moshe with tears streaming down his face. He sat there and cried for a few minutes, said a couple of words, and the woman left, visibly comforted, and lifted to more positive spirits.
The talmid then asked R’ Moshe, “Rebbe, did you know this womans husband well? Was he a talmid of yours?” “No” replied R’ Moshe, “I did not know her husband, and I don’t know her either.” “So, Rebbe” the talmid replied, “why all the tears?” R’ Moshe said, “she is part of klal yisroel, and I must also carry her burden”. (A lesson in nosei b’ol im chaveiro)
A sign of total gadlus!
I would like to nominate this post from “Funny Shidduch Stories”:
mosherose
Member
I went out on a date with a girl who insisted that I not look at her. It was the oddest thing. Apparently in her mind I was suppose to keep my head down the entire time. It was surreal. Neadless to say, there was no second date. I wonder if she ever had a 2nd date with anyone?
Ok here’s something I heard a husband do many years ago on Rosh Chodesh Adar—He woke up really early in the morning and changed every single clock and watch that his wife would look at the next morning. I have no idea who the guy is, but apparently his wife rushed the kids out a little too early, and he had a good laugh. So did she, and she wasn’t so upset because she enjoyed the shticky side of her husband.
I do think these questions will give insight into the family dynamics as was pointed out. Do you think though that it is realistic to get accurate answers?
Daven for someone else that needs the same thing.
The best segulah is to just be a true eved Hashem, do what Hashem wants, and daven from the depths of your heart.