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You are dealing with the idiosyncrasies translating Yiddish to English. The effective meaning of the Yiddish expression is “hear me please”, as understood by a native English speaker.
Rav Moshe was already niftar by time that book was printed. Whether some family member or someone else who had access to it provided, doesn’t necessary provide Rav Moshe imperatore to it. Again, no one said stam photos are necessary 100% assur as a rule.
Not too mention they are forgetting this is only golus.
apushatayid: Like myfriend said, when you take a Chasuna photo you don’t expect to see it in the newspaper or mass distributed. Theres nothing to indicate anyone in it approved of its later usage. I didn’t see anyone here say photos are 100% assur.
As far as hernor, I’ve also heard Rabbonim use that when calling their Rebbetzin, and smartcookie correctly translated it (hear, please). (I believe smartcookie previously identified him/herself as a native Yiddish speaker?)
There is a nice discussion on the Sources thread about Yarei Shamayim’s who don’t publicly call their wife by their first name:
So far about 5 or 6 comments on it.
If that is the case YOU should insist on not being called by your first name in public. Arichas Yomim is certainly worth it.
Anyways, I hadn’t heard that it is a segula, but stam tznius. And its more widespread than you may think (although in the previous dor it was even more widespread.)
7 hours ago HIE claimed:
“Rav Heinemen from Chof K or Star K (i forgot which one he’s from) is MATIR it.”
Now HIE claims:
“NOTICE, it doesn’t say that Rav Heinemen holds it’s assur it’s just that, he didn’t GIVE a p’sak.”
Can you make up your mind HIE? Do the facts change every time you are disproven? Maybe ask your 10th grade Rebbi (you did say you are in high school) for some guidance.
The Gedolim, including the Shach, shortly after it was written accepted it as binding. This is the same thing that happened when Klal Yisroel decided that the period of Chazal has ended after the 7th generation of Amorayim (Mar Zutra, Mar bar Rav Ashi, etc), and nobody from here on in can add to the Gemora. There was no “halachah lmoshe misinai” that told us that the Gemora was sealed; it was the accepted reality told to us by our Gedolim. The same thing applies to accepting the Shulchan Aruch and Rema.
“but it is not the chibah that the Torah means when it discusses inyanim of tznius. There is chibah and there is chibah.”
Really?? Where is this brought down? In Sifrei oomis1105 HaKodesh?
“Most people know when someone is crossing a line of appropriate behavior in public.”
Indeed. And hand holding and other acts of public affection are way above that line.
The Gedolim in the days of the Shulchan Aruch and shortly thereafter have agreed to accept the psakim of the mechaber and the Rema as authoritative. The Shach writes that one cannot even claim “kim li” against a psak of the Shulchan Aruch. This is akin to accepting someone as your “Rebbi”, where you follow his psakim. The same thing applies to accepting the Shulchan Aruch and Rema.
yitayningwut:
Regarding the husband being the captain of the family and the wife assistant captain see Shulchan Aruch EH 69:7, right at the end. (Sorry for the wrong perek earlier in the thread.)
How is that even a question. This is exactly when you use the “fifth chelek” of S”A. Do any of you hand-holders hold your wifes hand for a reason other than derech chiba? Why else does a husband hold his wifes hand walking down the street if not for derech chiba?
“one or two sefarim mentioning a halacha”?! We aren’t talking about Sh”ut or Rav Moshe. We are talking about the Rema on Shulchan Aruch! All the apologetics in the world will not overcome that.
The Gedolim in the days of the Shulchan Aruch and shortly thereafter have agreed to accept the psakim of the mechaber and the Rema as authoritative. The Shach writes that one cannot even claim “kim li” against a psak of the Shulchan Aruch. This is akin to accepting someone as your “Rebbi”, where you follow his psakim. This is the same thing that happened when, let’s say, Klal Yisroel decided that the period of Chazal has ended after the 7th generraiton of Amorayim (Mar Zutra, Mar bar Rav Ashi, etc), and nobody from here on in can add to the Gemora. There was no “halachah lmoshe misinai” that told us that the Gemora was sealed; it was the accepted reality told to us by our Gedolim. The same thign applies to accepting the Shulchan Aruch and Rema.
The Chupa to Yichud Room issue was discussed earlier. It is a completely separate issue, and has its own sources.
The Otzar Haposkim Siman 55:1:19 (v 16 p 83) – seems to be based (partially) on a Taz., and that was the minhog in Yerushalayim. See also “Edus Leyisroel” p 65 a discussion on this, and he brings sources that so was the minhog in Yerushalayim over 150 years ago.
The basic idea is either “kinyon” or hefsek (between chupa and the yichud). The idea is to “lead” to the yichud.
The Nitay Gavriel (chapter 37 footnote 1), brings a Taz, discussed by Shu”t Pri Hoadomo (??? ?????) v 3 p 10, a sefer “Takanas Uminhogei Yerushalayim”, Edus Yisroel, Shaar Hamifkad (??? ?????) Hil. Kiddushin p 16 who doesn’t give the reason as kinyon but gives a different reason (“?????? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?????, ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????, ??? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??????, ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????? ??????? ????? ?? ?????, ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?????, ?”? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???’ ?? ??? ?????? ??????? ??, ?? ?? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????, ???? ???? ?????? ??? ??????, ???? ????? ??? ????, ???? ???? ?? ????? ???”?). Klilas Chasanim (????? ?????) Siman 10:4, Shulchon Hoezer (???? ????) p 67, Divrei Chaim Dov p 24 brings a reason al pi Chassidus.
Hishtadlus.
Dr. Pepper – I don’t think that is scary at all. What is scary is that some guy who never met him feels capable of diagnosing a good law abiding citizen as a future serial killer.
BP Totty:
This might help you (once you regain access):
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/anger-management-group-therapy
I believe that’s the first time I’ve seen you use the LOL acronym. I’m glad to have calmed you down. 🙂
Who’s angry?
The Wolf
What is The Wolf angry about?
There is an anger management thread in the CR that may help.
Wolf: WADR I do not believe you even believe the excuses you are trying to give to do what you know albeit deny is an extremely large aveira.
The Kitzur is giving an example, not the only example and not the minimum example. No one holds someones hand in public for non-affectionate reasons. Like was asked, you wouldn’t hold hands in the street with your best friend (because people will think your feigelech.) You only hold hands for affectionate reasons. It is clearly assur and a very serious aveira.
Re the kiss: Yaakov wasn’t even married to Rochel at the time. Are you seriously trying to argue you can publicly kiss a woman other than your wife!?
The Rabbenu B’Chaye says Rochel was under 3 years old at the time.
See the commentary of ibn Kaspi, that it wasnt really a kiss, and it was nothing assur at all.
And “ahava” in Hebrew doesnt literally mean “love”. Any time you like something you can say you “ohev es zeh” – there is no other word for “like”. Just as “sinah” doesnt mean “hate” but rather disapproval. As in lo sisnah es achichah bilvavechah, which includes anything you might have against someone – it doesnt mean “hate” (see Ramban).
In any case, we cannot compare ourselves to the avos. They had ruach hakodesh and nevuah and chachmah and they were able to see into a person in ways that we cannot imagine. Even if it would have meant that Yaakov “loved” Rachel in that sense, it doesnt mean we can do that so easily.
Chazon Ish on fish worms
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2010/06/chazon-ish-on-fish-worms_20.html
I basically agree with HaQer, and would like to add that the content of the picture itself makes a difference. A problem is it is almost impossible to define specifically what pictures should not be for non-family consumption. But even ‘frum’ wedding pictures unfortunately have less than G rated content. For example, where the Chosson and Kallah are touching each other (such a picture should never even be taken — as even husband/wife shouldn’t be touching in front of other people i.e. the photographer — but that is a whole ‘nother discussion all its own. And let’s not get started about videos of women dancing, a whole new can of worms.)
I must’ve hit a bulls eye, hence the blind eye treatment.
Dany Acosta?
Maybe he works for someplace or someone with those initials.
Rav Moshe’s (EH IV 100.6) defense of the Mishna Berurah (75:2)
(he says that the Mishna Berura is correct) – that below the knee is not ervah; he then says that stockings are required only because of tznius — because if it was actual ervah than transparent stockings would still be prohibited. However neither Rav Moshe nor the Mishna Berura state that there can not be hirhur concerning the lower leg. In fact both state that if there is than it must be covered.
Other poskim assert that there is hirhur and thus the hetair is at most valid in a ideal world which is surely not the present situation.
mdd, The Rema says the public should support the Kollel learners. When they end university support, we’ll talk about Kollel stipends. Torah trumps Humanities.
“It seems from what I read though that they are trying to exclude sefardi families who are charedi.”
That is a blood libel by the court and media. There isn’t a shred of truth to it. Not only is the admission policy exclusively based on religious observance and not ethnic background, and the student body is mixed with Ashkenaz, Sefard, and Chasidic students, but Sefardic fathers of children in the Emmanuel Bais Yaakov were sent to prison yesterday!
Rambam says that Kollel is for anyone who WANTS the honor of learning in Kollel (Shevet Levi). Also see YD Hilchos Talmud Torah 246:21 and Shach ad loc.
But this is a fig leaf. Only a small minority of Chareidi Yidden in E.Y. are in Kollel. Where are the complaints that they should stop supporting the seculars university education? Roman literature and Humanities yes, and Torah no?
Yes, I’ve done it. That the majority of Chareidim in Eretz Yisroel do work and pay income or VAT taxes, not like the slander that one could fall for by accepting the blood libels spread about Chareidim in the zionist media.
And I’ve enumerated in multiple comments above why they are entitled to the funding. And entitled to it without the state infringing on their religious liberties, including in their educational facilities. Read my various comments above addressing this point in detail.
Yes, it would be wonderful if the seculars said thank you to the Chareidim for all the Torah they learn in Eretz Yisroel.
The biggest hakoros tov DOES come from the Chareidim. That hakoros hatov, is the Chareidim’s Limud Torah, which keeps Eretz Yisroel safe for the religious and secular alike.
It is the secular’s who should be showering the Chareidim with hakoros hatov for the Torah they learn that keeps them safe.
That’s simply hogwash. Most Chareidm do work, do pay taxes, and don’t stay in kollel.
And to top it off, many Chareidim refuse to take Zionist government funding for their Torah and educational institutions — even though they are entitled to it!
The Kollel population is a small percentage of the Chareidi public. They are as entitled to funding as the secular are entitled to university funding.
When the state stops taxing the Chareidim they can discriminate against them by only funding secular education and not Torah education. In the meanwhile, it is the Chareidim’s Torah learning that is keeping Eretz Yisroel safe.
You must’ve heard that completely out of context. The following are some excerpts of what Rav Avigdor Miller wrote in his Seforim:
From: SING, YOU RIGHTEOUS
46. Question: Does not Zionism, or the State of Israel, present ideology which could preserve the Jewish identity?
Answer: Even if it did, this would be a purely artificial ideology and could not appeal to a rational and truth-seeking mind. What right do atheists (i.e. Zionists) have to claim a land, unless by force of arms? It is not an ideology but an organization, and it cannot logically demand allegiance. There is no reason, according to such an artificial ideology why Jews should not lose themselves among the gentiles by assimilation and that’s why a number of Zionist leaders took gentile wives. It is logical result of this lack of rational foundation that so many of the Israeli-born youth leave the country and are lost among the nations. The State of Israel presents the greatest peril to Jewish existence in history.
47. Question: How is that possible?
Answer: Never before were Jews under the influence of such a powerful group of Jewish atheists. The Yevesekzia (Jewish communists) in Russia combated Judaism and urged assimilation, and they ruined millions of souls. But the leaders of the State of Israel speak Hebrew and proclaim themselves the true Jews, and they declare that no belief in G-d and in a Torah is necessary to be a genuine Jew.
From: AWAKE MY GLORY (CHAPTER: THE LEADERS OF ISRAEL)
In July 1938 President Roosevelt convened the Evian Conference to consider the problem of Jewish refugees. At that time a German offer was made to release Jews at $250 per person. The Jewish Agency, headed by Golda Meir, decided to ignore the offer.
At this conference, the delegation from the Jewish Agency made no effort to influence the United States or any of the 32 other participating nations to open their gates to admit German Jews.
769. It was because European Jews put their trust in atheistic Zionist leaders that these leaders everywhere became the lackeys of the Nazis in all the Ghettos. They were the machinery, which served efficiently in the task of keeping the Jews docile and of persuading and coercing them to be sent off to their deaths.
Look at the parent’s that were ripped away from their families by the criminal medina. The jailed parents themselves are a mix of Ahskenazim, Sefardim, and Chasidim! It puts to lie the blood libel made by those thugs in the supreme zionist kangaroo court.
simcha613, taxpayer money goes to religious educational institutions in other countries as well. I know Canada is one, and I believe in most if not all of Europe as well. The ones that don’t (and even the U.S. provides a limited amount of free educational assistance to students in religious schools) are wrong. (Although that itself is a whole ‘nother topic.) The Torah world has been growing in Eretz Yisroel since the late 1800’s — before the arrival of the zionists. The medina has done just about everything in their imagination to impede Torah progress and Torah adherents. What we have accomplished in Eretz Yisroel is no credit to them. We’ve done so in spite of their impediments.
But as you said, this is a whole ‘nother topic.
frumimaof3, That’s why many mosdos (i.e. Brisk, Satmar, Toldos Ahron, and others) refuse to take a cent in Israeli government funding, even though they are legally entitled to it. There are different shittos on this issue.
I don’t know what the law is, but I do know what the law should be. And that is what I described. (Perhaps the law is that way, and the government is disregarding it nevertheless.) Even if the law isn’t as it should be, you can be 100% certain that there will be civil disobedience (as is the right in that purported democracy) by the Chareidim against the government’s evil decrees.
And if that means going to prison to uphold our inalienable right to practice the Torah as our Gedolei Yisroel advise us to… well you saw what happened today in Eretz Yisroel.
Wolf: I was responding to the point that the Chareidim need to suck up to all the government’s educational edicts — including against their religious practices — as a result of the Chareidim receiving educational funds. My point was the Chareidim pay taxes that cover all citizens educational schooling, so they are entitled to receive the same educational funds as the non-religious. And that fact does not give license to the government to muck around and stick their noses into the Yeshivos and order them to change their religious practices.
When the government stops collecting taxes from Chareidim, Chareidim will stop taking government money. As long as Chareidim pay taxes, they are entitled to receive educational money.
And this does not aborogate their rights to educate their children with the religious values they have, rather than the secular (anti-Torah) government’s will.
“If it’s okay to actually see the wife in person in such circles, then how is a problem to see a picture on the wall?”
Off the top of my head… a picture is made to be looked at, hopefully you aren’t looking at women. That being said, women (at least should be) avoid unnecessary facetime with strange men (even in their homes.) A picture can be, and is even specifically made to, be looked at repeatedly and for continued periods of time.
“You really can’t see the difference between the propriety of circulating something to thousands or millions and a picture hanging in the privacy of one’s home??”
Your home is open to guests. The only difference here is the quantity, not the concept.
“Believe it or not, this was NOT meant as a reminder to you for the source.”
1. I understood that you hadn’t intended it as a reminder
2. It reminded me anyways 🙂
“That may or may not be true, but it’s actually irrelevant because it’s not the current practice in the yeshivish circles in which he, himself travels in.”
It is relevant. Modesty is not about black and white but rather intangible concepts.
“And there’s a big difference between a picture being circulated in a newspaper or magazine and one that’s hanging in the privacy of my own home.”
The concept is the same.
Regarding the source for the Rabbeinu Tam saying that its better for a woman to remain an Agunah her whole life rather than receive a questionable GET, although still not 100%, I think its in Rabbeinu Tam, Sefer HaYashar, Responsa, No. 24 (ed. Rosentahl, Berlin, 1898, pp. 39-42).
Otherwise you may possibly find reference to it in any of the following:
Rema, Even HaEzer 154:21
Nimukei Yosef, Yevamos 1a in the pages of the Rif s.v. Oh Nimtzeu, quoting Rabbeinu Tam
Beis Shmuel, E.H. 44:7, citing Rabbeinu Tam’s view
Aruch Hashulchan (E.H. 44:5) ruling in accordance with Rabbeinu Tam
Rabbeinu Tam’s opinion explained in the Chazon Ish E.H. 79:16
BTW regarding pictures and tznius, although I too don’t have a precise source, do agree with the guy at the Chasunah. (I’m not sure if forbidden is the right term; perhaps improper is more apt.) Why do you think the Rabbonim advised the Chareidi newspapers not to print women’s photographs? For tznius purposes. Whether you agree with it or not, he didn’t make this up.
And didn’t Sarah Umeinu hide from the guests when Avrohom Avinu invited in the three guests? Sarah Umeinu did so for tznius reasons.
gavra, thank you. Do you per chance happen to know if or where he mentions this in any of his books or elsewhere?
There is nothing here to desegregate or racist. The Emannuel school in question, despite all the media lies, ARE fully integrated with a strong Sefard and Ashkenaz student body. Some of the parents going to jail today are Sefardim!
That is absolutely true. The holocaust was a good thing — we just don’t understand how. When Moshiach comes we will know why the holocaust, all the pograms, the Inquisition, etc. were all good things.
Wrong? You are saying that I’m wrong since they still have multiple wives? Okay.
It is “phasing out”, because of civil laws, not any religious objections.
It would be doable, technically, but there would be trouble. Even the Mormons who the government more or less tolerates, the government from time to time starts up with them.
(Other than the Mormons, some African immigrants do it also somewhat underground.)
True. Hashem also wanted the holocaust to occur. The point you are making doesn’t itself indicate either are a good thing.