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Jax,
A few corrections.
Its
THE NAME AND number of your street, 250 west 60,
Where we are to be (they switched off here between the corner the corner and the lobby the corner) the number your calling from AND the reason we need to come.
🙂
Did someone mention The Purim (urim) Story (ory)?
I could go on all day about it.
It’s completley off topic so I’m starting a new topic about it.
ha – lol in a big way
it really depends on how much you type.
true it takes some time to get used to typing in IM language, but once you learn it and get used to it – it makes for much faster typing.
Try telling a court stenographer that should write everything out instead of using shorthand because for you it’s to hard to get used to.
AZ – I don’t know what your planet (or island) you are on, but it’s not reality. I’ve never heard of a single boy in my life who was ready to go out and didn’t because the “system didn’t allow it.”
Just because you think they are ready doesn’t mean they are.
And even if they are “ready”, there are other reasons why they are told by Gedolim to wait. One big reason is that if the boy is learning, his learning will not be the same once he gets married. So if he could get in another year or two of “worry free” learning, gedolim push it. I know someone who was red to a very Chashuv Shidduch before he was going out. He told them he’s not going out yet and he wanted to wait another year. The Shadchan pushed and said it’s a really good Shidduch and even though he wasn’t going out yet, he should make an exception. He asked a Shayloh to one of the Gedolei Hador and was told “there is no girl in the world that’s worth a year of learning” and under no circumstances could he come up with a heter for him to start going out earlier for a “better” girl. It is pure Bittul Torah.
In regards to your last question, I would be much more reluctant to go out with a 23 year old who doesn’t have a degree then a 19 year old – what was she doing the last 4 years. There’s a whole lot of older girls who have no degree and nothing to put on the table.
And just for the record, it’s not a 2 girls to 3 boys ratio. – Your numbers are immensely out of proportion.
And while the numbers may be a little off, that is not at all the #1 issue with the shidduch “crisis” nowadays. There are far bigger issues which are actually fixable.
You suggest that boys should go out earlier then they are. Good – go promote divorces.
You suggest that boys should go out earlier then they are. Good – increase the problem.
The problem with you is that you don’t merely state your pathetic opinion, but you hide behind the name of gedolim who would barf if they knew you quoted them the way you do. Then you try to give people guilt trips because they aren’t “listening” to the Rabonim and are causing people not to get married. I don’t doubt that you spoke to Gedolim about this. I’m sure you did. But you can convince anyone of anything if you present it right. It’s not hard to go into a gadols house say look at these numbers, should we tell people to bridge the age gap? The Gadol will say “Makes sense” and now you have their haskama. Why hasn’t a single Rav come out and say it themselves. The come out with a new proclomatuion every day. The Moetzes never came out with something like this. Nor did the Agudah. Nor Torah U’Mesorah. Don’t try to pull that their strategy is to have some shnook flood jewish forums with your trash.
Your eyes are closed to seeing anything other then what you want. There is no point in arguing this anymore. We have gone around in circles for 2 months now. The only reason I commented on your post is because I’m hoping that other people don’t see your filth and actually believe it. As for you, my friend, you are lost until you want to hear. When you do, just reread what everybody wrote to you.
I HEREBY REST MY CASE. I will post on this issue no more.
Mods – Can I suggest that this topic be closed as we are going around in circles?
AZ –
Please answer my questions and after I will answer yours.
If you don’t know what my question is – look at my previous posts.
AZ –
What does this mean?
In the big picture, movement will have to be made on both ends to close the gap simply because at the end of the day there will always be far more 19 yr old girls than 23 yr old boys.
Is this you’re way of pretending to back away from what you said and then slyly go to it again.
BOYS SHOULD NEVER EVER BE PUSHED TO DATE BEFORE THEY ARE READY.
If you want to make a push for boys to marry older girls that’s very nice sweet and thoughtful of you. But you are doing it so wrong that you are hurting you’re cause.
Inherintley, I think you might have a valid suggestion. Nothing new. I’ve heard it for years. You definiatley didn’t make it up and this has been around for quite some time.
That suggestion can be summed up in one line – Show boys that there is no difference between an older girl and a younger girl.
This is a very debated subject and you hold one side in it.
The reason you create waves is because you take it and run with it to such a level that you make yourself (and everyone who you claim is supporting you) look really stupid. Girls should start going out later. Boys should start going out earlier then ready. (Don’t deny you are saying this.) That’s rediculous.
Oh, and BTW, there are plenty other ways to help this exact issue. Like telling girls to actually figure out what they want to do in life, and work towards that – so that when they are on the market they will have a solid stance in life.
Generally, unless the girl knows what she wants to do in life, and is on the path to doing it, (and being a full time mother from the time you get married isn’t knowing what you want to do – it’s knowing what you don’t want to do), I, and a lot of people I know, won’t go out with them. And the older they get, the more down the path you have to be. The problem is a lot of girls, waste 2 years after seminary relaxing and trying to get married, and don’t think about maybe going to school and getting a job or something.
AZ –
you once again contradict yourself and make no sense.
First you say – I haven’t once suggested that boys start going out earlier and certainly not earlier than they are ready.
Then only 3 lines later you say – The discusion about boys 21.5 and girls 20 is a long term goal…
OK – so lets make up our minds here. Do we want to say a recommended age (with exceptions – but this is the general age)? Or do we want to say that it’s when ever a boy is ready? YOU CAN’T DO BOTH! It doesn’t make sense to say, 21.5 but only if they are ready. If they are ready then it has nothing to do with how old they are. If it’s strictly when they are ready then there is no room for an age.
AZ –
I started going out at age 23
I was one of the earlier ones of my friends to start going out.
Don’t even think about telling me or my friends that we should’ve started going out earlier. For what? I wasn’t ready when I was 21.5. In the close to two years from 21.5 till when I started going out – my life changed considerably. I probably wouldn’t have gotten the same quality girl as I should’ve as my “name” and position where I was in life was a lot worse. I appreciate the love that you give to people who go out. Go out when you’re not ready and marry the wrong person because at least the girl will get married. If that’s the way you feel – I’ll repeat a suggestion I made earlier – Tell guys to marry 19. Why wait till 21.5. this way they’ll get divorced at 21 and remarry at 22. That will solve the shidduch crisis. Every girl should have the right to marry AT LEAST ONCE. At least girls will be married for a few years as opposed to never.
Sorry guys – here you go – I’m actually still at work
The three aveiros that one must give up his life for are giloy arayos, shfichas damim, and avodah zarah. If one comes up to you and says do one of these three aveiros or I will kill you one must give up his life.
Molech is a form of avodah zarah, because the parent is bringing their child as a sacrifice. It also encompasses the aviera of shfichas damim, because according to some the parent would actually drop the child into the fire. Molech is also the aveira of giloy arayos, because it is a form of wasting seed. Because when you kill your child, you are in affect killing seed that you used to create him.
Just Smile asked me to edit this and let everyone know that it is not his d’var Torah – so when it says “my father” – it’s not Rabbi/Mr. Smile
—
YW Moderator-99
AZ –
They either wait longer till they start going out (there are plenty of people who I know that waited a good few years till they were 26,27,28) to “find themselves” but they take themselves “off the market” or they marry “not” good girls from more modern families – but those families aren’t on your radar of shidduchim – so it doesn’t make a difference to you that a more modern girl gets engaged – she wasn’t on any of your lists
On your island you would have 25 boys go off the derech and walk to the other end of the island and marry the Indians while only 3 girls did that. Then you would have 147 girls to 75 boys. (and why are you starting it at 150 and 100 – the numbers aren’t that messed up – there are plenty of single boys out there)
And by the way you seem to have completely ignored my first point.
“This simple tactic has been extremely effective in the last year. Any problem with it?”
Personally, no. But I have many friends who do. A lot of people specifically want to marry a girl thats a few years younger then them for certain reasons. And frankly, I can understand that very much.
Additionally, most people see it as a negative if the girl has been going out for a few years and still not married. Is it just because they haven’t found “the one”, or is there something that I don’t know about? Many people don’t want to take the chance.
If Hashem wants me to get married he’ll send the right girl when he wants her to come. Same thing for girls. Let’s not go jump and get people to go out with different people then they would “for the better good”.
And by the way, one of the big reasons why there are more girls then boys is because it’s much easier to be a “frum yeshivish” girl then a “frum yeshivaish” guy. So you have much more guys that people in the frum community won’t want their daughter to go out with then girls.
OK, let me address your points to me.
I’m gonna start with the second one to get it out of the way.
I am not one of a kind (well I am but that’s in a different way and has nothing to do with this). I am not a “specially good” boy. I’m not even learning in Yeshiva anymore – I work full time. Yet I still have people calling me while girls don’t. (I’ll explain in the next part why.) Therefore girls tend to put their name on lists much faster then boys. So even in the “been dating for over 6 years” section the numbers will be VERY off.
Now, Yes, there maybe more boys that are 22 then girls that are 19 – therefore what? girls shouldn’t get married as fast – that’s gonna do it – tell a girl don’t go out for 3 more years – that way you’ll find a shidduch faster. Or do you want to tell boys to get married earlier? I hate to say this, if you would’ve tried to convince me to get married at 19-20 i would’ve punched you so hard. I wasn’t stupid enough to know that that is not in my best interest. The people I’m going out with now, first of all I wouldn’t go out with then, and my criteria in what I’m looking for changed a lot in the 3 year from 19-22. I have a better idea. Well now that I’m thinking about it. It’s probably a good idea. Tell guys to marry at 19. Then they’ll get divorced at 21 and remarry at 22. That will solve the shidduch crisis. At least girls will be married for a few years as opposed to never.
Yes there are more 22 yr boys then 19 yr old girls? Therefore what?
We should change
OK boys I’m not gonna get involved here in your petty little fight over facts, however, AZ, you yourself show why your “stats” mean nothing. Let me quote what you wrote –
“This is obviously not a scientific study as it’s possible that for some reason that no one has access to the many many boys and these people only know the girls. However the sheer magnitude of the discrepancy between the numbers is a good place to start.”
Definitely a good place to start, yup – to realize why your stats are messed up.
I’m a single Yeshiva guy – going out for a little while now. I’m not in a single “database” or “Shidduch list” none of “Gateways YU Connect Saw You at Sinai, The well known Shadchanim out there in the yeshivish crowd, Invei Hagefen (Agudah) etc” – nothing.
Oh, and did I mention, neither are the vast majority of my friends who are going out.
However, the girls that we go out with and are red to are mostly on these list and places. It’s more a list of single girls then it is a list of singles.
I don’t need every shnook shadchan to give me a call because they have the “perfect” shidduch on paper for me when they have no clue who I am. I have enough people doing that without the lists. But a girl, who it could be a year between dates, would love to get a call from anybody because it just maybe “the one”.
Point at the end of the day – the lists are nothing to go by.
Agree 100%
Funny Story – I was doing dance revolution once (I’m a guy) and some frum teenage girl came over and stood really close and started sticking her foot out to do the ones that were near her.
Talk about awkward!
On my menu was
1 bottle of Auchentoshan
and
1 bottle of wine
the rest was a blur
I know a guy who is a Levy and his plate reads IGTLVY
flatbush27 –
I’m not taking any sides here, but I heard a story of someone who went to Reb Elyashav and was taking to him, and Reb Elyahav said a psak Halacha to which the guy said – but Rebbe, they quoted you publicly saying the opposite. Reb Elyashav said – I know, they did, but I never said that – they are wrong. So they guy asked, well why don’t you come out and say that you never said that – it’s a huge mistake. To which he responded – If I would go and refute every time someone quotes me wrong, I wouldn’t have any time to do anything else because it would take up all his time every day. So it’s very possible it’s not true and he wouldn’t nec. publicly deny it.)
You could always frequent the Yeshiva in NMB. It’s called Yeshiva Toras Chaim. It’s a Chofetz Chaim branch with around fifty in the Bais Medrash and around 90 in the high school.
🙂
beacon –
I know what my IP is – I want to see if squeak can figure it out – he said he could see ip’s
Lol – where in Manhattan Island are you reporting from? Can we get some live footage?
Oh – I thought I was going crazy for a second (I am, but it has nothing to do with this – lol)
Anyways, if you’re so good, what is my IP address?
squeak –
You can see the IP addresses? Where is that located? What is the last 4 digits of my IP address?
Torahis1 – when was the last time you gave money to Kupat Hair? And was it just because of their flyer?
Do those glossy flyers actually help or are they just a waste of time and money. If it was so simple why wouldn’t all yeshivos do that? Then we wouldn’t have financial problems!
(I don’t mean to sound cynical – I’m just raising some points.)
Bogen –
Who’s 78? There’s 99 and 72 and 86 – that’s 3. I agree that there aren’t many moderators otherwise posts would go up quicker.
Maybe there are no moderators and it’s all the Editor, but since he’s so busy posts take a long time to go up. But to make it look bigger and larger then it is he posts under different names. Maybe no one in the forum is a moderator.
Just a thought.
“Life is a stage – the best actor wins!”
–Me
I’m just really good. 🙂
Moav and Ben-Amon
Whatever happened to the YWN News Digest? The last one I got was on October 30th – over 3 weeks ago.
Do you really think that it is financially smart for a organization to waste their money going after seminary girls and yeshiva boys?
What must have happened was that she probably gave money to someplace or signed up for something like a shiur or went to a seminar and she was put on a list, as he same that happens to everybody else. If you really want to figure it out, tell her to ask the other girls in her class if they receive the EXACT SAME mailings at the same time – if they all do then you know it’s from seminary – but if not then you know it’s from somewhere else.
And just remember, there is absolutely no chiuv to give money to a place just because they sent you something in the mail.
What do I do? I throw them out also. Occasionally, when I have some ma’aser money, and I feel that one of them is a deserving organization I might send them a few dollars. But before I throw them out, I try to open them and look at them so at least I know that klal yisroel is suffering and there are so many organizations and Yeshivos out there that are so desperate for money. That way when I am able to and when I’m ready to give tzedakah it makes it much easier to give.
I also feel bad, but there isn’t much more I can do financially. It is for that reason that over the past years, ever since I was in high school, I volunteered to help Yeshivos out if they need work done. That way they don’t have to hire someone. It’s the best I’m able to do.
Remember, while it might just be a drop in the bucket, when the bucket is empty you see every drop.
shindy –
Another silly question….do bochurim get letters in the mail asking for tzaddoka?
Yea that was a silly question. Uh, yea, boys do also. Your daughter isn’t the only single person out there getting tzedokah mailings. I’m a 22 year old single boy and have been getting tons of them ever since I was in high school. That’s what happens when any one thinks you might have some ma’aser (like from babysitting or what not).
Oh… and BTW, the organizations that send them, as you said, don’t know her. So how can you say in the same sentence that What are they thinking, sending letters to single girls? uhhh…. They don’t know she is a non-working single! You answered your own question. They don’t have a profile of her that says what she does and how old she is.
I got this email the other day.
DISCLAIMER: These are not all verified as true, and some have been (almost) proven false.
For example Number 1 – rumor has it that in 1925 it was on Erev Pesach also.
Anyways – her goes.
Fwd: VERY INTERESTING!!Mashiach 2009
1. Bircat HaHamah – The Blessing on the Sun – Once every 28 years
Since creation, there was only two times that the year we say Birkat HaHamah fell out on the 1st Day of Passover.
The first was the year Hashem redeemed Israel form Egypt.
The second was the year of Purim, when Hashem saved the Jews from the evil Haman, who wanted to kill and destroy all Jews.
This year Birkat HaHamah falls out on the 1st Day of Passover. (which will be the 3rd time in history)
When it was told to Hacham Ovadia Yosef, that th
is year Birkat HaHamah falls out on the 1st Day of Passover, he started crying like a baby.
2. Chofetz Chaim in a Dream to His Student
Recently the Chofetz Chaim came to one of his last living students in a dream several times and said that Mashiach is born. When this was told to Rabbi Elya Svei, he said he knew about this for over ten years.
3. Rabbi Elya Svei Mashiach 2009, told to him from his Rebbe, Rabbi Elchonon Wasserman
In 2004 at a funeral of a Rebbe of Mirrer Yeshiva, Rabbi Elya Svei said that Mashiach is coming in 2009. He said its was told to him and calculated by his Rebbe, Rabbi Elchonon Wasserman, who was the top student of the Chofetz Chaim. Incidentally Rabbi Elchonon Wasserman wrote books and spoke about that the timing of Maschiach is co mparable to a pregnant lady in her 9th month, which at any moment can give birth. Rabbi Elchonon Wasserman was murdered in the Holocaust, over 70 years ago, so in his times if Mashiach was so close, how much more so in our times more than 70 years later.
4. The Collapse of the Stock Market, Wall Street, Financial Markets, Housing Markets, Mortgage Markets, Insurance Markets, Real Estate Markets
Bear Sterns, Lehman Brothers, AIG, Merill Lynch, Wachovia, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Washington Mutual, Goldman Sachs
And surely MORE to come.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average broke 8000 and dropped to a low of 7882
5. The Iran dictator (Yemah Shemo) declaring he wants to wipe Israel of the globe and definitely has Nuclear Weapons.
Since Hashem sent us a very good President George Bush, who is a true friend of Israel as well as shown that he want to eradicate terrorists, the Iranian Animal is petrified to start with Israel, but with this years election of a new President, who know what can happen.
6. Barak Obama as President
Hes young and inexperienced as well as questionable loyalty and friendship to Israel.
With all that’s going on with our economy and global ma rkets, in addition to Obama’s liberal viewpoints it seams very dangerous to have him as a commander in chief.
7. Iceland & Greenland Ice Packs
Iceland and Greenland is mostly comprised of ice. Scientist discovered that due to Global Warming, the shrinking of the Ozone Layer and the change in weather patterns, the ice packs in these two countries are starting to melt. They predict that in 5 to 10 years it will fully melt and the water (melted ice) would be added to the worlds oceans. This extra water, would increase sea level around the globe by 20 feet.
Basically all homes, buildings etc, that are built on locations that are at sea level (which is a good portion society), will be under water. Hashem promised NEVER to bring a Mabul (flood) again. If this is set in motion to take place, then Mashiach, must come before this happens.
8. Brisker Rav
The Brisker Rav said during the Holocaust, that within 70 years Mashiach will come. 2009 is the 70th year.
9. Rabbi Elya Ber Wachtfogel said this past Yom Kippur 2008, was the last Yom Kippur. Hes been telling everyone to do Teshuva before Mashiach comes.
10. Rav Chaim Kanievsky
Chazon Ish (his Grandfather) and Rav Shach (one of his Rabbi’s) came to Rav Chaim Kanievsky in a dream and both told him to tell everyone to do Teshuva in order to get ready for Mashiach, whom is coming very soon.
Its time to do TESHUVA!!!!!
The Chofetz Chaim said that people whom are not worthy won’t even realize that Mashiach is here and whats going on.
We MUST ALL to TEHSUVA and come close to Hashem.
Send this to all the Jews you know.
We need Mashiach desperately.
Because – I wouldn’t be able to be up so I could work.
koton –
That would mean I would have to learn close to 12 hours a day.
My job entails internet access.