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The pen is mightier than the sword. If the sword is very short and the pen is very sharp.
(who do you think?)
dhl144 – nothing wrong with corny!
Inside every fat girl is a thin girl, and lots of chocolate.
(Also property of TP)
ready now – That was a nice demonstration of the straw man fallacy. Thank you. You completely ignore the fact that I brought you a very clear Rambam and instead built this nice little issue of why the Rambam may or may not have read Plato. For your information, the story of Atlantis (not known by any other name…) was written as a small part of the dialogues of Timaeus and Critias, which the Rambam certainly read (at least the Arabic translations by Ibn Rushd or Ibn Sina, which had the ‘avodah zoro references’ removed) as he quotes both works. To blithely claim that he couldn’t have is simply not backed up by the evidence. And once again, I have shown you the Rambam about imagination, I have given you a mareh mokom. Where is yours for your claim? In the end, even the straw man you created has withstood your attack…
And finally, “I have also said the internet is forbidden”. Well what are you posting on if not the internet? Are you actually for real?!
As available from Lobsang Dibbler
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with weary feet,
Until it joins some larger way,
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.
The Road goes ever on and on
Out from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
Let others follow it who can!
Let them a journey new begin,
But I at last with weary feet
Will turn towards the lighted inn,
My evening-rest and sleep to meet.
Give a man a fire and he’s warm for the day. But set fire to him and he’s warm for the rest of his life.
dhl144 – Thanks! I gave money to Kupat Hair once, it worked so well I needed to go the barber 3 times in the next month… ;-p.
77 – either Sunset Strip or Two Little Crutches, take your pick…
The ostler had a tipsy cat
Who played the 5-stringed fiddle,
Now squeeking high, now growling low
Now purring in the middle.
dhl144 – what, you thought I was serious?! Glad someone got the joke…
Hey, feel free to read it how you want…
It’s ‘minky’, yur minky iz brekking ze lew… Zer iz a cleyuew in zee ruwem…
I think it’s impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them they way they love themselves
SM – It’s about externality and how some people spend so long just doing the things they think they have to do and being who they think other people want them to be that they never actually end up knowing who they themselves are.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
There are 10 types of people in the world – those who understand binary and those who don’t.
Rose da Nose says hi.
42. Comedy Sci-fi novels.
Sorry, typo. Amendments are mil’bar, emendations are mil’gav.
nishtdayngesheft – Luckily for me I’m not trying to impress you. But in case you missed it, I’ll repeat the definition of ’emendation’: “an alteration designed to improve”. rdoniel was not altering the words of R’ Hamburger, and was thus not emending it. He may have added to it, and it just so happens that we have in the English language a word for such an addition (which covers multiple types of additional statements including corrections, clarifications, amplifications and extrapolations [and it just so happens that rdoniel was extrapolating]) and that word is ‘amendment’. This is not ‘talk show radio’, this is normal English. An amended text leaves the original wording intact, the emended text changes the original wording. Amendments are mil’gav, emendations are mil’gav. rdoniel was therefore amending, not emending.
Furthermore, your making fun of his screen name was directed to him, not his statement, and deciding that his comment was ‘fit for a shikkur’ was an ad hominem attack in that it was an attack on the person, not a rational or cogently argued refutation of his position. You never explain why his claim is ‘low-class’, but simply dismissed it as such.
And if you read his post carefully you will find that he never claims that R’ Hamburger said anything except identifying various pronunciations. He then adds ‘it would seem’, indicating that he himself feels that this may be a reason why a certain havoro gained traction. You may agree or disagree. If you disagree, say why and be prepared to argue constructively and logically, but blase, offhand rejection won’t make you more right.
nishdayngesheft – I never actually read zahavasdad’s post. Yours was the last post when I looked at the thread (I sometimes simply skip from a few posts in to the end of a thread if I don’t have time to read every post…), so I commented on yours.
My personal favourite story actually happened to me when I learned in the Mir a few years ago. I broke my toe the night before the general election. Now, in EY the buses do not run on election day leaving me with the task of making my way somehow to Terem (the walk-in medical centre) for an x-ray. As I hobbled my way down Rechov Shmuel Hanovi a taxi pulled up beside me and asked me if I’d hurt myself, when I replied I was going for an x-ray on my toe he told me to get in and he’d take me all the way across Yerusholaim for free. Only a Jew…
nishdayngesheft – So I suppose that people who disagree with you are automatically shikkorim now? Please, let’s have a civilised discussion. No need to call names or simply throw around ad hominem attacks. It’s not clever, and it doesn’t convince anyone as to the validity of your position. If you have an issue with something someone else says, please have the good manners to address them politely and then make your point. Be prepared also to provide proof, not just dismissal.
By the way, if we’re nit-picking, then it’s ‘amendment’ not ’emendation’. The latter is an alteration designed to improve, the former is an additional statement. You accuse rdoniel of adding his own, not correcting, hence he would be ‘amending’ not ’emending’.
shilishi – *sigh* I’m sure I said “certain areas”… In Gateshead it is hardly spoken except to give some of the shiurim in some of the yeshivas, in Manchester it is confined to about 7 streets and in London to about 1/2 of Stamford Hill. Hardly the majority. The majority of Jews in EY speak Ivrit, even in the Charedi and Chasidish enclaves. I have no idea about America but ‘total achdus’?! Nonsense.
aurora77 – Sorry! That was really my intent in the first post (“this is not a thread about how wonderful yiddish is. It is about how wonderful Yidden are.”), sorry it lead away from your OP…
TLKY – “Which area is not prone to earthquakes, hurricanes, floods, tsunamis, blizzards, cyclones, hailstorms, tornadoes or other natural disasters?”
England 🙂
shlishi – I hate to break it to you, but outside of Eretz Yisroel, certain parts of America, certain parts of the UK and Antwerp very few yidden actually speak yiddish. It cannot demonstrate ‘total achdus’ when pretty much no sephardim speak it and never did. I once asked the Mashgiach of Gateshead Yeshive why the top 2 shiurim are given in yiddish, despite the fact that more than 70% of the Talmidim do not speak it. He replied “Shiur daled is given in yiddish because the Rosh Yeshiva’s shiur is. The Rosh Yeshiva’s is because his father’s was. His father’s was because he couldn’t speak English properly.”
goldersgreener – regarding your story, my chavrusa asked R’ Avrohom if it was true. The Rosh Yeshiva told him that it was not true. There is also a version of the same story about his father, R’ Leib ZTZ’L, which is also, unfortunately, a fabrication. It’s a nice story, but it never actually happened.
nishdayngesheft – this is not a thread about how wonderful yiddish is. It is about how wonderful Yidden are.
I have had the great zechus to work with many types of Jew from many places who do not speak yiddish, and was glad that we were able to communicate in a common language of English.
I have also been able to meet many Gedolim in EY, including Rav Yaakov Hillel Shlita and Rav Nosson Zvi Finkel ZTZ’L and because I understand English we were able to talk. The love of fellow yidden was clearly apparent.
It is a great shame when a man dies too well known to everyone else, but completely unknown to himself.
Aaron Chaim – ‘shabbos’ and ‘soroshecho’? And the earliest girso I’ve seen doesn’t have ‘lo’ in it, so I’m not sure that you’re entirely correct about the orignal nusach.
Interesting…
I think I’m Demosthenes, so who here is Locke?
Mod-42 – Lembas IS, not lembas ARE. It is the name of the type of bread, like granary, and pronounced ‘lem – bass’ not ‘lem – bers’ (which would have indicated a plural of lemba). And I would stock up on Discworld Dwarf-bread rather than lembas, as it lasts as long, is just as filling and is handy as a weapon for when the zombies attack.
MSS – I am not a ‘kiruv professional’ nor do I have that much experience with OTDers, but I did tutor for a few years in a small yeshiva that catered to boys who didn’t fit the system and many of them could have been potentially at risk. From what I saw, those from a more Chasidish background who don’t fit the system are at a greater risk of becoming disillusioned than those from other backgrounds, followed by kids from very heavily insular non-Chasidic backgrounds (certain parts of Gateshead, the non-Chasidic Stamford Hill-ers etc.). The Sephardi kids seemed the least likely. Most of the boys from across the spectrum that were in the yeshiva when I tutored there are now either in mainstream yeshivas or are back on an even keel and, although they are no longer in yeshiva, they are solid bnei torah.
And some of the unhappiest have also been the financially poorest…
Nishdayngesheft – and of course referring to someone who’s screen name is rebdoniel as ‘Danny boy’ is really high-class…
Nope, but neither does poverty.
Perhaps because not enough people gave money to Kupat Ha’ir…
BaalHabooze – It is making the link in the first place that is presumptuous. It is suggesting a reason for something we cannot know a reason for that is presumptuous. All we need to know is that it has happened and we need to work on ourselves as human beings and as frum Jews. What the ba’alei mussar say is precisely that, that we must work on ourselves, not find some outside cause over which we have no control to blame it on. And what we certainly don’t do is try to figure out da’as H’.
Basically, run.
Popa – “He probably will. But he’ll wait for the right moment”.
So no longer “possibly a woman” as your subtitle claims then? ;-p
Medium Thinker – I wasn’t giving a diagnosis, merely mentioning dyspraxia is often associated with it. I was in a Bar Mitzva at the time and posting from my phone, so kept the post as short as possible, but I did clarify later, as I hope you saw.
Just to keep this thread going, I’m putting this up:
All the Fallen Trees
Down in the old wood,
Evergreen, everglade, the old trees stood.
Tall and proud and mighty in knotted trunk,
In bough, in branch, in canopy like cowl of monk.
Shade in the old wood;
Dark, damp warmth where the old trees stood.
A meeting place where skylark sings and robin nests,
But plague, wooden strife,
Hollow, empty, nothing though external life.
Trees wither on the inside; they do not know
The might and pride and leafy shade are but a show.
Thus comes the woodsman,
Short, sharp knock and he understands.
The axe chips, the axe fells, the axe gives no care
To who was taller, wider or whose leaves more fair.
All the fallen trees,
Leaves and branches rustle in the rippling breeze,
Still waving at tomorrow that has been and gone;
A wasted opportunity to be someone.
Apples are rubbish.
I refer you to this thread:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/coincidence-or-not
Englishman – What Gedolim say is in absolutely no way any kind of proof whatsoever. For example, many Chasidishe Gedolim do not differentiate between mil’ra and mil’eil which is crucial in Loshon Hakodesh (the classic example being booh and booh…). As much as you may like to think differently, not all Gedolim are masters of dikduk, and, like other people, simply speak how they were brought up speaking, even during davening. The fact that these Gedolim were brought up saying ‘oy’ does not preclude the fact that it is, historically speaking, a recent invention. Their upbringing is no more of a raya than anybody else’s. The fact is that somehow this pronunciation became quite widespread and some people who then learned this havoro had children who became Gedolim. And davening is not a raya anyway as one can daven b’chol loshon…
Englishman – if you look very carefully, I never actually made the issue about chasidim, it was all about the Gr’a’s cherem, which you claimed was no longer in effect at all. I simply pointed out that it was. The integration you spoke of is a post-war phenomenon. But this thread is not about chasidim vs misnagdim, it is about whether or not people in the CR should be ‘giving tochocho’ about hashkofos. Someone made a slightly off-hand comment about the Gr’a and we end up here. Back to subject please?
HaLeiVi – a similar coping mechanism used by many dyspraxics is to take anything on the right hand side with the right hand and anything on the left with the left.
It’s a punishment for the legislation against extra-large soda.
Englishman – firstly, you keep skirting the Chabad issue. You claim that it is all alright now because there is no cherem, but there is. And the reconciliation of chasidim and misnagdim came about mostly due to the need to jointly fight the various Reform and Haskala .
Difficulty in distinguishing directions is often associated with dyspraxia (sometimes called Co-ordination Difficulty Disorder, or CDD). Other associated difficulties are things like balance, language learning, kinaesthetic problems, fine motor skills etc. Do you experience any of those? Please note that dyspraxia is not a ‘problem’ but merely a way that the brain is configured.
Rule 2: Never forget Rule 1