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rebdoniel – never had ketchup on a latke?! I didn’t know there was any other way! It’s a great combo.
rebdoniel – I didn’t know that. I was always under the impression that caviar was specifically sturgeon roe. Thanks for the information.
This whole discussion of ‘Orthodox’ and ‘Non-Orthodox’ shuls reeks of the ‘no true Scotsman’ fallacy from both sides…
abcd12345 – hatzlacha rabba! I applaud you and your bravery. Completely changing your entire life in such a radical way is something I cannot even imagine.
rebdoniel – Caviar?! As far as I’m aware caviar is made from the roe of sturgeon, and therefore not kosher. Unless there is some other kind of caviar that I am unaware of…
yekke2 – I hear what you say, but am not sure I completely understand it. What is life? What is death? And what is a person who is neither alive nor dead – a zombie? A ghost? A vampire? If you are not alive (i.e. you have no life in you) what are you if not dead? If death is not yetzias haneshomo then what is it? And if it is yetzias haneshomo then surely if the neshomo is still there, the person is alive. So what is in between? How does this state of not alive or dead work vis-a-vis the neshomo? If you could clarify for me, that would be much appreciated.
I can’t believe it’s not custard…
As WIY points out, there is missas neshika. Also, see Chagiga 5b concerning the malach hamoves sending out shluchim.
nem621 – Whilst it is true that many acharonim (e.g. Chazon Ish) do say your sevoro, there are shittos that hold that you can kill someone even if HKB’H didn’t ‘want’ (k’vayochol) them to die. The Or Hachaim says so, as does the Zohar and Rambam, so it’s not a ‘kabbalistic vs. rationalist’ thing. It’s rather complicated and so the CR is probably not the place to discuss it.
Right, I’m fed up. If you try and play for cheap laughs by messing around my screen name, achiv ani berama’uso:
nishtinganzenkop – It is an ad hominem attack because you attack the person, not the argument. If, as you believe, the story is untrue there is no need to say it in a manner which is directed at the individual. You could, for example, simply say “in my experience of shochtim I have never come across such a thing, but I do know etc.”. This would then present your point of view and expose what you believe to be false without resorting to name calling. In addition, you would have to bring some form of evidence to back up your claim; simply saying “you’re a liar” just isn’t good enough.
nisht – I was being consistent. There were 2 parts to my post: a) saying that ad hominem attacks don’t make you more correct; further to which b) everyone should follow their own minhag or shitto as long as it is halachically acceptable and not discredit others. Part a) was directed at you and zeeskite, part b) at everybody. Happy now?
nishdayngesheft – I haven’t seen this list you’re referring to, and even if I had It probably wouldn’t mean much to me, I’m English. If it is indeed the case that rebdoniel eats non-chalak then that would seem to run counter to his Rambam and Mechaber shitto. Incidentally, I think it’s rather rude to accuse someone of deliberate falsehood simply because you may not agree with what they say. Your constant ad hominems are growing rather tiresome…
And you should probably not eat my shechita or kashrus, and should understand why I won’t eat yours.
PBA – That’s probably true both ways. As is clear from other threads, rebdoniel is sephardi. So you wouldn’t eat his shechita as many sephardi still do nikkur, and he definitely wouldn’t have yours as he would need chalak bet yosef, where most of our meat is simply glatt.
nishdayngesheft – You know, ad hominem attacks really don’t make you correct either. If I really wanted (and believe me, sometimes I do) I could write, pretty much word for word, what you wrote to rebdoniel about you. I don’t, for a number of reasons. Principally because saying ‘you’re mad’ is pointless and doesn’t mean a thing. Same applies to Zeeskite whose comment was anything but zees.
Now I’m a yekke, and am all for saying piyutim (we say virtually every piyut going) but *gasp* there were many rishonim who didn’t hold of piyutim. And yes, they knew who wrote them and probably what kavonos they had too. And they still disagreed with saying piyutim, sometimes in some very strong language. So what it boils down to is ‘some do, some don’t’. And everyone should respect each others right to follow their minhag or shitta (provided they are within the bounds of halacha, of course.)
Now, can everyone please chill?
unfortunately, Brian has left ‘the solution to all the world’s problems’ in car. And he’s lost the keys.
Are you a man or a muppet?
frumnotyeshivish – Oh well, I suppose I must be an animal, I mean Dovid Orlofsky said so. And he said so in a humourous way. So it must be true. Look, I don’t know about you but I am a human being, so are all my male friends. I sat through Orlofsky’s comedy sketch on men and women with some friends and we all walked out not having a clue as to exactly which men he was referring to as animals. We even asked him after, his reply was “I’ve been a speaker for 20 years, I know what I’m talking about.” When I replied I’d been male for 23 years (at the time) and knew what I was talking about, he just ignored me. I really dislike this misandrist “men are animals” thing, yep we have teivas, but hey, so do women. I once walked past a group of girls who had gathered outside a wedding hall. They were looking at pictures on a camera, each girl saying a number from 1 to 10. As I passed close enough to figure out what they were doing I was surprised to learn that the pictures were of boys at the wedding – one of the girls had poked her camera through (or round) the mechitza to get pictures of them and the girls were now rating the boys. No boys I know, or knew, would have ever done anything near that. And apparently men are animals… Give me a break!
<blockqoute>Rav Avi Weiss is also matir many things no one else is and too writes a “response” to his detractors.
So did the Rambam. Your point?
Or is this yet another in the chain of discrediting AGR (Any Given Rav) with a non-sequeteurial Avi Weiss comparison?
I don’t know whether or not this will help, it’s about making things happen…
Riding the world
You sit on a train and the world moves around you,
The hills and the trees and the rivers flow by;
You sit in your seat and relax as you pass through
In a tubular cloud on a cast iron sky.
You sit with all the plastic men
And no-one gets the joke;
And all the other folk
Who sit and ride,
And let the machine work
Then get off at the other side,
Expectantly await the perks
Of doing nothing, of sitting down,
Of waiting whilst the job gets done
And are quite surprised when we are shown
That for giving nothing you get none.
To make the world move – push yourself hard;
To make it spin – just turn around;
To make it fly you must leave the ground.
WIY – Sorry, I both love learning and am very capable of doing it and yet I still have an issue with what I call the ‘kollel assumption’, i.e. that every boy must start married life in kollel. I am all for those who are really serious about their learning, and I mean really serious, to spend as long as they can in kollel but I also believe that there are painfully few of those around. Most people seem to think it’s just part of a some kind of school system. They do it because they were put on the conveyor belt in kindergarten and they just keep on the conveyor belt. My mashgiach once told me that nowadays you can put a broomstick in kindergarten and in 20 years it will be in kollel. People go to kollel because that’s just what people do. I know you will probably put me down as one of the “very few people who have an issue who come from a purely ideological standpoint” but I know many people, Roshei Yeshiva, Mashgichim, Maggidei Shiur included, who feel the same way.
As regards the OP, I believe that masechtos kesubos (perek 6 mostly) and makos should help him understand the kesuba and idim zomemim sugyos a bit more than he seems to…
Jam yesterday and jam tomorrow, but never jam today.
Well, I have a brother Yossi, a brother-in-law Yossi and a brother-in-law Joseph. And a grandfather-in-law Josef. Don’t think they post here though…
Sam2 – I find it far more likely that the 6 hours is the To’us, as the mistake of printing ‘Shalosh’ as ‘Shesh’ requires only that the printer miss out a lamed, whereas the reverse would need the addition of an entire word as well as the letter ‘lamed’ (and the invention of a rashi). Occam’s Razor says that R’ Yerucham had a rashi we do not (which is not at all uncommon amongst Rishonim) and that a printer missed out a letter. It requires fewer assumptions than positing that a printer a) put in a letter that was not there, b) put in a word that was not there and c) invented a rashi that was not there. I have also never heard of your cherem and the fact that the ‘gimmel’ girso appears in all modern defusim surely would imply that such a cherem does not exist. I would like documented instances of printers dying after printing it, please, rather than just saying it.
PBA – Thanks for the Maharil, I guess I must have been misremembering. However, I do disagree with your interpretation of the Chayei Odom as he refers to them not simply as minhogim, but as ‘dei’os’. This means, to my mind anyway, that they are based not simply on practice but on actual shittos. When I asked my Rov he said that mistomo the Chayei Odom is referring to R’ Yerucham. I’m still trying to chase down that Mabit for you, by the way…
PBA – Did both. Neither worked. I therefore will have to check both mekoros in Maharil (I noticed you only looked up 1) again. As for the Mabit, I will bl’n try and find it for you. It definitely exists as I had much fun showing it to people in my yeshiva days. However, I do not have a copy, nor any real access to one. I can ask my contacts in Gateshead Yeshiva to check for me. The Chayei Odom cites ‘dei’os bo’rishonim’ that one does not need to wait 6 hours, but ‘eizeh’ sho’ois’ (in the plural, hence more than 1). This means that there are Rishonim who do not hold of 1 or 6 hours, and not that these are the only options and 3 is a minhag taken on l’chumra of 1. It is therefore very much muchrach from the Chayei Odom not like you.
PBA – your link led to a google books page which didn’t allow me a look inside. No PDF. Do you have a PDF link available?
That’s not as silly a suggestions as it sounds… Out of all my friends and family, just 4 shidduchim I know were made by ‘professional’ shadchonim. All the others (my own included) were made by stam people who happened to know both sides, or people who occasionally dabbled here and there in shadchonus.
WIY – It’s unhyphenated and therefore the former. But I’m just a pedant, so ignore me.
PBA – Haven’t seen it in a while, and don’t own a copy, but I distinctly recall seeing 3 in R’ Yerucham. If I remember correctly it’s in issur v’heter (39 or thereabouts). The Maharil is in Minhagim (issur v’heter, 5 d”h ochal, and 40, 4). The Mabit is (I think) in Sh’ut discussing waiting between milchig and fleishig (as oppose to visa versa). Waiting 3 hours is also mentioned in Chayei Odom Siman 127.
Is it muttar to get a full-size tattoo of your face tattooed onto your face, in the same colours as your face?
PBA – That’s not really accurate either, Rabbeinu Yerucham says 3 hours, with the reason being that it’s bein seuda l’seuda. He says it b’sheim Rashi (though we don’t appear to have such a Rashi). Maharil says 1 hour for the same reason, adding that if one wishes to be machmir one should wait 3 hours. Again, the reason is bein seuda l’seuda. Mabit brings no less than 10 Rishonim who all hold of 3 hours as being bein seuda l’seuda. There seems to be some historical reasons for this; I have heard (though cannot confirm and have not seen any mareh mekomos, so I may very well be mistaken) that it depended on both the length of day and how many meals per day various communities ate. The Middle-Eastern kehillos apparently ate 2 meals a day, one in the late morning, one in the late afternoon and seeing as the length of day near the equator is fairly evenly split for most of the year this results in a 6 hour gap between meal 1 and meal 2. Northern European kehillos either had 2 meals per day, but with shorter daylight hours, making 3 hours between meals, or 3 meals making 1 hour. Like I say, I have never seen this inside, but have been told so by multiple sources that I believe to be reliable. Anyhow, it is quite clear from the Rishonim that 1, 3 and 6 hours are all based on bein seuda l’seuda and have very good mesoras. And yes, I am aware of the Shach…
(NAS – the modern Prometheus springs to mind here… North Pole, anyone?)
And now for some biting social commentary. Brace yourselves people…
First-Class Man
Dawn train to Hallelujah-land,
Screaming down the line;
Wheels of rusty ferrous alloy
Click in two-four time.
Carriage E, first-class man
Sits upright, silk tie slack,
Coffee stain spreads a web
On jacket sleeve that once was black.
Go to Harrods while in town;
Perhaps a paisley dressing gown.
Off the train and into taxi
(Avoid paying Congestion Fee),
Walk through glass revolving door,
Nod at receptionist as she smiles,
Take the lift up to the tenth floor,
Secretary looks up from her files.
Grab the papers without a glance.
Close the door and fall into chair,
Lean back and dream of South of France.
Sees them an hour a day.
Working hard to buy them pleasure,
New games console is consolation
Love is bought with hotel fares.
Dreary meetings take up time,
Put it down on invoice slip.
To spend on the next skiing trip.
Leave the office at 9:30,
Take the taxi back to train,
On the train returning homewards,
Half way through it starts to rain.
Walk to car with golf umbrella
(Membership must be renewed…)
Sports car comes with just one seat
And Italian-leather racing shoes.
Home has fourteen living rooms,
Most of them are always closed.
Small built-on flat for the nanny,
(Wife works too – designing clothes).
Thai food cooked by world renowned chef,
Eats it sitting by himself,
Place it back upon the shelf.
Shower off the daily grime,
Bores himself to sleep by counting
Forty, fifty, sixty, sheep.
Alarm clock rings at five to five,
New day starts in coffee shop,
Gets his mocha-cappuccino,
Careful not to spill a drop.
Attended by a teenage clerk.
On the train, in Carriage E,
Want to know what success is,
How to make it if you can?
There he goes: The First-Class Man.
This is bad. This is extremely very not good at all.
Spoilers!
NAS – Thanks. I think you know when I wrote that one, and I think you know why…
Boo!
On the subject of just keeping on going despite, I humbly offer the following:
The Soldier
Battlefield behind him,
Ground awash with copper rain,
Drowning out the hurt and pain.
He wanders off, marches on,
Head still filled with blazing guns,
With muffled shouts and quiet screams
That haunt his thoughts and roam his dreams.
His face is dark, his hair is fair,
His eyes are brown, his skin still bears
The scars which lie unhealed inside.
His backpack lies on shoulders broad,
And at his side, where once a sword
There would have lain in days of old,
A pistol made from plastic cold.
Lifting his head, squinting his eyes,
Peering towards the flaming skies,
He spots a plane to take him away –
Off to fight another day;
For fight he must and fight he will
And fight until the Earth stand still –
Though battles may be won and lost
The war goes on despite the cost.
He marches on, despite it all.
&:#=
(NAS – the pyschic bunnies of doom can only make an appearance if the ant of the apocalypse does as well…)
Keep your forked tongue behind your teeth. I came not to bandy words with fools and half-wits.
They’re boringers. Blue boringers.
You aren’t too young, but are still ineligible to vote due to not being me.
I doubt there will be bombs, but there might be rockets. Unless, of course, the Chazon Ish said that there will be no incendiary devices of any sort in Bnei Brak.
Ringless – Unfortunately you have strayed into an alternative dimension where the word ‘female’ must never be used (even to say that the word ‘female’ must never be used…). It’s known as the CR and is the home of some very strange and unusual lifeforms.
If you’re Canadian ‘ready now’ also rhymes with ‘no’. As do: so, grow, doe, dough, furrow, furlough, hoe, toe, low, bow, know, show, forgo, Tobago, Tabasco, tobacco, go, Pinocchio, vento, largo, embargo, cargo, woe, quo, also, although, joe, sow, foe, co, mow. It is not a coincidence.
One man, one vote. I’m the man and I have the vote. I vote for me. All hail me.
And
I have reversed the jelly baby of the electron flow
Thanks!
Luna – just read the poem you posted last week and it’s really, really beautiful. I really love the imagery and the sentiment. Just beautiful.
Don’t blink
I wrote this last night when I couldn’t sleep…
For The Conductor (of the Morning Star)
And on that day was Israel saved
And saw the Great and Mighty Hand.
As the crocodile drowned behind
Miriam took her drum and danced.
The lightning bolt struck down Hazor,
The Keinite turned him from his way
And drove a tent-peg in his temple,
And Deborah sang upon that day.
Head and shoulders above all else,
A humble man though for it,
The lyre and cymbals stirred his soul
And is yet Saul a prophet.
The shepherd king with his harp
Protecting from the seething horde,
As the covenant passed by in song
Then David danced before the L-rd
My Beloved, as the apple blossoms,
The turtle-dove calls back and forth
A Song of Songs for Solomon.
Bob the builder, can he fix it? Bob the builder, yes he can!