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Sorry Kasha, your humor is just too sophisticated for me. Either that or I’m not sure you know what “literally” means.
If there’s a literacy test, and a woman passes, should she be able to vote?
Kasha- what if the man of the house is stupid?
What if someone goes on an internet website and displays a third grade grasp of written english? Should they be able to vote?
Ok Kasha, you’re very attached (though I doubt more than anyone here). Why don’t you answer SJS’ question then?
Kasha- so why can’t women follow it at the voting booth? Others here have written about women not having the intellectual acumen to vote? What acumen is involved in pulling the lever for whoever the Gedolim say to vote for?
SJS- I believe Kasha has answered it with his “negotiation factor” answer, which to me shows that he is quite detached from the working world. Kasha, if that’s not how you’ve answered SJS’ question, feel free to answer, as she has politely asked.
Kasha- my point is not that we can do whatever we want. My point is that you make light of a serious point made by wolf.
Kasha- you refuse to address the serious question there which is to reconcile Hashem’s control of the universe with our free will.
How smart should a man have to be to be able to vote?
I suppose it doesn’t matter since he’s just vting for whoever the gedolim tell him to. In that case, why can’t women just vote for whoever the gedolim say to vote for?
“Noone should ever leave their kids with a male babysitter. Women are much safer. i don’t know who left their kids with you but I wonder about theyre abilities as parents if they left their kids with a teenage boy.”
You are out of your mind.
Why does the original poster ask the question if he already has an answer?
Kasha- because Jews and frum Jews vote at greater rates than goyim, frum Jews do gain an advantage from women being permitted to vote.
Kasha wrote: “The thought that one is entitled to a “voice” is erroneous.”
Kasha- I was responding to this statement, which you did not express as a statement of merely “your opinion.” This is a normative statement.
Until galus ends, we Jews have to live within secular societies. If you think that larger society should be run by Torah principles, you may have that opinion. In my opinion, the larger secular society should operate under different principles so as to better enable Yidden to live a Torah-based life. “Feminism” as some people call it, supports the kollel lifestyle because it results in acceptable work environments and better wages for frum women. Allowing all women to vote, means that frum women can go vote, allowing frum Yidden in general to have more influence over their local affairs. I don’t think making the goyim live a Torah-based life will get us anywhere.
Kasha- the idea that one has a voice comes from the way secular societies such as that in Israel and the U.S. chooses to govern themselves- and that is what we are talking about here- whether women should be allowed to vote in secular society.
Thank you Kasha, we’ve finally gotten to an answer.
And now here’s my response. I think you are just wrong.
Kasha- your answer is the intellectual equivalent of just saying “because,” and nothing more. Why should the husband and/or father be making the decision?
Clearheaded- the point is that people do things that are unbecoming out of necessity.
Kasha- what does the ability of father’s and husbands to vote have to do with whether women should be able to vote?
The answer to why children should not be able to vote is not that their father’s can vote. Its that society makes the collective decision that generally, they don’t have the maturity or intellectual capacity to vote.
So please, share with us why women should not be able to vote?
Its unbecoming for a man to have a job as a babysitter?
Is it unbecoming for a man to take food stamps?
Kasha- this “negotiations factor” is nonsense. You know what an employer will do if he realizes he gave someone too high a salary? Give them a lower salary.
Kasha- why don’t you think women should be allowed to vote in secular society?
Kasha- not at all.
Kasha- no. I advocate employers paying based on work and performance, not gender.
Kasha- your conception of negotiation is very unrealistic. Particularly in this economy, most negotiations consist of this is what the job pays, take it or leave it.
Kasha wrote:
“In any event, even the individual actions they pursued such as encouraging family planning and suffrage, were things that many of our gedolim took strong issue with. But the real goal of this corrupt movement, whether admitted or denied, was and is the destruction of the traditional family unit and function. Gender bending and anything to go against traditional society norms.”
Where do you get this nonsense from?
The term feminism has lost all meaning, as has the term women’s lib movement.
But the notion that there’s a unified corrupt movement that seeks to destroy the traditional family unit is silly.
Feminism has paved the way for a good deal of what makes the kollel lifestyle possible- workplaces where women are accepted and treated with respect and dignity.
hereorthere- I did not try to answer your question. It doesn’t need answering either way. Why is it relevant? SJS said that in her informal “poll” some of the respondents said the thought of washing their husbands feet was “gross.” I don’t understand what you don’t understand about that and I don’t see why its worthy of any further discussion. You seem to link it with not being in love and being unable to perform the mitzvah of having children. I don’t see how they’re related.
Hereorthere wrote:
Why would they be “grossed out” at the thought of washing their husbands feet.
What about all the love and closeness a couple is supposed to have?
How about asking the husbands washing the wives feet would they too be ‘grossed out’ at the thought?
How can they ever get together then, for the mitzvoh of having children or are they just in marriages of convienence where they are not actually in love?
Look, some people’s feet are gross, even if they’re the feet of your spouse. It has nothing to do with being in love or the mizvah of having children. I love my wife’s neshama. I’m indifferent on her feet.
I think it means toona-bagel slightly greeced.
Volvie wrote:
“Kol Yisrael areivim ze lazeh. We are each responsible for one another.”
We are also required to be dan l’kaf zechus. If my fellow Yidden spend Pesach at a hotel I assume they have a good reason for doing so. I assume they take precautions to avoid the pitfalls that might arise.
EDITED
Volvie,
If your point is not that going to a hotel is necessarily a sin, what is your point? Seriously, I don’t understand what the point of telling people that what they do is a bad bad idea. You said its a bad bad idea. What does that mean? Are you a posek and you’re saying its not permitted by halacha? If not, maybe you should keep your opinion to yourself, and maybe in general, we need not have discussions like, what does everyone think of this particular thing that some people do but I do not. Every discussion here, why do some people have cleaning ladies, buy labels, take vacations, wear sheitels, go to college, wear a colored shirt, eat this hechsher but not that one, lay tefilin on an airplane, go to concerts, go to rallies, wear a hat, wear a jacket. Its a constant stream of putting people down. Yes, we are all responsible for each other. Putting people down is not the way to help.
Yes, if someone would like to say maybe I’m just not at high enough a level, go ahead.
So, that’s my first suggestion, stop saying things like that, that what other people do, for reasons you have no idea about, and which are halachically permitted, are bad bad ideas.
Why must there always be a discussion of whether what other people do is ok? If you prefer Pesach at home, that’s fine. If you go to a Hotel, enjoy. Why the preoccupation with what everyone else is doing?
What if the Rosh Yeshiva hadn’t issued such a psak? What should the man do?
So Volvie, what is the Halachah?
Mod 80- when you say “knowledge of the Halachah” what are you referring to? If your Posek says yes or no, will that answer your question?
What do you mean by “find out what the Halachah is?” When you ask your Posek are you looking for a yes or no? A source? An interpretation?
There is not a source for every mixed scenario. By mixed, I mean a scenario that involves lots of different laws. There are laws concerning shomer negiah, laws concerning yichud and laws concerning chesed. I don’t see how shomer neigah or yichud are implicated here. I do see how chesed is implicated. I also see a possibility that chilul Hashem may become an issue.
Moderator 80- you make a good point about Chillul Hashem in particular cases.
In my scenario I believe the Halachah is to help. Do I have a source other than what I was taught by my parents and every teacher I ever had? No.
I once heard Rabbi Dovid Orlofsky explain the importance of chesed with a story/joke that went something like this-
A woman on a plane turned to me and said excuse me, could you be a good Samaritan and help me get my bag in the overhead compartment. I reponded no, I can’t be a good Samaritan, but I can be a good Jew and will of course gladly help you with your bag.
Let me put it this way- A Jewish woman gets out of the subway in a station that normally has an elevator but today its broken and she has to use stairs or an escalator. She’s struggling with a stroller and some small children. There are two Jewish men walking up in the same direction that she is. She asks one if he could please help with the stroller. He declines to make eye contact and walks away. Or perhaps he curtly answers he can’t. Or maybe he politely states that according to his Rosh Yeshiva, it wouldn’t be proper. Still struggling with the stroller, she turns to the second man and asks for a hand with the stroller. He says gladly, carries the stroller up, doesn’t engage in any extraneous conversation or physical contact. When they get to the top of the stairs, she says thank you and he says you’re welcome. If its Friday he maybe adds in a Shabbat Shalom.
Which of those two men would you want for a son? Which of those would you want for your son’s teachers? For a shidduch for your daughter?
If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.
At most well funded decent public schools in NY state, the regents are no big deal and are usually somewhat easier than the level at which the class is taught and preparation for the regents consists of nothing more than learning the subject matter of the class.
What does this “greeced” term that I’ve seen show up here in the last few days mean?
My father, who has always worked like a dog to support his family, without ever once complaining.
Lovely story charliehall. Thank you for sharing.
Giving alcohol to minors, particularly those who are not your children, is never, ever a good idea. Charles Hynes does not hold by your Rav.
Happy Purim and Good Shabbos everyone.
Bodek- that is not the point of my question. My point is that the original question asks about apples and oranges? Its shopping in a store that has both kosher and non-kosher items vs. eating a non-kosher item.
If someone has unfiltered internet at home and never looks at inappropriate material, uses it only for his job, for online banking, to keep in touch with family and friends who do not live nearby, to exchange pictures of children and grandchildren with family and occasionally to shop for items he needs. He never looks at shmutz, nor does he waste time that would otherwise be spent with his children, learning Torah or earning parnassah, has he done anything wrong?
The comparison here is not correct. The reason not to have unfiltered internet access in the home is because there is the potential for negative consequences, i.e., you may be tempted to get involved in inappropriate conduct that can have disastrous results involving people veering off the proper spiritual path. Drinking excessively on Purim is the dangerous act itself and the equivalent to the question about unfiltered internet access would be the simple act of having liquor or wine in the home. You must be careful with both, but drinking excessively is like looking at shmutz on the internet, not the same as having the ability to look at shmutz if you were so tempted.
I presume everyone’s now going to be voting for politicians who are against the death penalty, right?