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Frumster claims to have made 1,642 shidduchim since 2001. That IS rather significant and (quite impressive), I guess by your definition it does need a haskama from a Gadol (which the site claims to have by the way – you can always email “the team” on frmster and ask them what rabbinic backing they have and who those rabbinics are).
HIE. You have a haskama from a gadol to write to the YWN coffee room?
Wolf. As long as you dont paint it white AND blue 🙂
Regarding Frumster. I know several people who have profiles for a year or 2 and dont bother updating it because they dont “like it” (not really sure what that means). This is only several people. The frumster site claims to have made many, many shidduchim and I’m sure there are many people with positive things to say about the site.
The average filter will catch “4 letter words”. Microsoft Windows Defender or IE setting (free on all computers) will catch them too. I guess this makes the case for better filtering from YWN users on their own computers and YWNs server. I post on non jewish sites and certain words (certainly not the 4 letter kind – and even many derogatory and discriminatory words) simply block a post from being accepted by the sites (as the TOS declares “in an attempt to maintain a certain level of decorum and professionalism” and i suppose an unwillingness to be sued for certain speech that may appear on their site). I suppose it is up to each individual user to determine the type of filter they want on their computer, YWN to determine how they want to filter content that is trying to be loaded onto their site and each individual to determine if YWN’s choice meets the standards that they want out of a site.
Lastly, what do people really belive the word “yehsiva” in YWN means?
Mayan. If I were in your position, I would call the Menahel of said Yeshiva and tell them exactly how one of their Bachurim was acting, on their behalf.
“And if you don’t get it, then forget it, this thread is not for you”
How else should I take this line?
The insulin pump has done away with the “highs and lows” associated with an insulin shot regimen for those living with type 1. Of course the pump is only as good as the one using it. Boluses must be properly calculated and administered as does the continuos insulin feed. Baruch hashem, the ribbono shel olam, has sent medical advances in insulin, insulin delivery and glucose checking and monitoring to the world along with many wonderful shluchim to help in the use of the advances. What’s most important fpr people to understand is that those who live with diabetes under the care of a professional, can and do live perfectly normal lives.
Smartcookie, you obviously feel very strongly about this. Nevertheless, youv’e overstepped your bounds by suggesting what I should or should not comment on.
Perhaps we know different things about YWN or perhaps we assume different things and have different expectations about what we may read about on YWN. My expectation about any blog or user generated content site – even a moderated one with the word yeshiva in its title – is that one never knows what he will read. Do you believe that even under the “old system” every single item posted was read?
I did NOT read through this entire thread, nor do I intend to. If I am repeating something, my apologies.
Did anyone see the Sefer by R’ Doniel Neustadt (sp?) Called ‘daily halacha’ (I believe this is the name) and the halacha he writes for the 11th of Adar? If you don’t want your kids to drink on purim, just tell them ” I forbid you to drink” and they have a chiyuv midoraisa of kibbud av to listen. He quotes this in the name of R’ Shlomo ZAlman z’l. It was later explained to me that the rule that kibbud av doesn’t apply when a parent tells you to go against halacha does not apply in a situation where there is a machlokes poskim. Since there is a wide range of poskim regarding drinking on purim (as stated on ywn the range is from rolling around in your vomit to a glass of wine) the son can be yotze according to those shittos. Of course, now it is shushan purim in c’l there is no excuse for drinking or giving anyone to drink.
If you had an internet filter wouldn’t it catch inappropriate words or phrases even on a “kosher” site such as YWN? The only filters I use are what is deemed inappropriate by microsoft safe search (which is not that safe). Of course it can’t filter those things that are not correct hashkaficly.
I imagine that the posts in question were not of the variety that contained words that would be bleeped out on the radio, but were rants that were personal attacks against individuals here and the real world. Don’t most people take what is posted online, even on a “kosher” site such as ywn with a huge grain of salt anyway? I didn’t see the questionable posts, but why is everyone all worked up over them? This is cyberspace, not the real world. Take everything you see with a grain of salt.
Its a good thing I didn’t post anything since thursday or I’d think this thread was a reference to me.
Attack? If this doesnt get deleted before you have a chance to read it, I still dont see an attack in stating that “if you are a teenager looking to yank someones chain (not written the 1st time, but certainly meant – and are making up an angry at the world person) its not funny, even “adar” has its limits.”
Azo.Is. “They’re almost taking a back seat to the quiet factor.”
Can you elaborate on this new factor? What is it? What trait(s) must one exhibit to fall into this category we call “quiet” that people seem not to want. You have 20 years experience in shidduchim, you say you have been told nope, too quiet more and more in recent times. Can I assume you followed that up with, “quiet, does that mean you had to ask her to speak up many times”? No, thats not what it means? then what does it mean?
Jewishsoul. Please link what you want me to see. I have no idea.
Smartcookie. On the chance his situation is so bad, he should get help. that is also the advice you should give him. making excuses for why people did or did not help him, or help him in the way he felt appropriate doesnt make anything better and has absolutely nothing to do with the name of this thread. even if he tries to create a tenuous link by using the term “frum people”.
Make sure you dont give your kids devices that have Wifi access. You could walk along any street in the frummest neighborhood and hop onto an open network. these devices will find that network and all your filters, passwords and open computer rooms are meaningless.
So, when did yeshiva bachurim switch their preference to “not quiet” girls? What is a “not quiet” girl? How is she different than her quiet friends who guys suddenly dont want?
If I was in your position I would explain to my chavrusahs that they seem to be preoccupied with trivial things not related to learning and it is hurting the learning. If it can’t be corrected within say 5 days, I will have to look for a new chavrusah.
I wont debate what you claim is your experience and the experiences of other people, as told to you. I find it to be a rather strange development, if in fact it is true.
“Guys are looking to be ROFL starting on the first date and beyond. The Aidel, quiet type just isnt desired by guys, other than possibly the budding Roshei Yeshiva types.”
I find this statement quite puzzling. I wont debate its merits. I will instead ask you on what is this based? Have you polled those who are dating about their dating preferences? Shadchanim? Have you polled girls and found that “too quiet” is the oft stated reason why a shidduch is turned down?
I’m wondering if the original question really meant “who should the girls who have nobody actively making noise for them at shidduch meetings, with calls to shadchonim, girls who are not social butterflies and dont know a lot of people, supposed to marry”.
A lot of boys and girls are “quiet” on their first date. Speaking with a member of the opposite gender is not something they are accustomed to. The fact that it is for shidduchim only makes it a tougher situation for a lot of people. Add this to the already problematic fact that a lot of people dont have great social skills to begin with (and it gets worse as email, texting and other electronic forms of communication get more popular) and is it anyones fault that they are “quiet” on a date? What is worse, is if you ask about someone (male or female, doesnt matter) and you are told, “oh, very friendly and outgoing” and then on a date they are as quiet as a mouse, you automatically feel that someone lied to you or misled you in some way and that they are hiding other things as well. It is quite possible that this person when “hanging around”, with people he/she knows for 13 years IS quite outgoing and friendly. Put them in a one on one situation with someone they dont know, a member of the opposite gender on a shidduch date, can he/she be expected to act as if they are shmoozing wit htheir friends?
The truest comment made in this thread so far was the one about chumros.
Volvie. If R’ Shmuel said that. I stand corrected.
Ben Levi. On what am I wrong?
Tomim. Yes. I teach my own kids. I hope everyone teaches theirs as well. I meant, our yeshivos.
I agree with SJS’s analogy.
No I dont drink on Purim till I’m rolling on the floor in my own vomit and yes, I have unfiltered access to the internet. My safeguard is that my wife has the password and is around when I am online.
As a Moed, perhaps you can give a hetter to both boys and girls that it is OK to date and marry someone that does not fit the exact cookie cutter mold fixed in many peoples myopic world. A hetter to marry someone who has a job but is a baal middos and is koveya ittim. A hetter to marry someone who doesnt come from a long line of roshei yeshiva. A hetter to marry someone who (gasp!) wears a blue shirt. Basicly hetterim that will open up a whole new group of boys for these girls to date.
“Is she quiet” is such a loaded question. I once answered “no” (it was asked about a 35 year old gentleman) to this question and the follow up was “why does he have to be such a “tumler” (the verb for for someone causing a tumult, I guess). I guess if your not quiet, you must always be making a racket 🙂
I think people ask questions to ensure they don’t date someone rather than the opposite.
Why is this a problem? What do girls who like moiuntain climbing do? Guys who like curling? People who like Bon Jovi?
What do quiet guys do? Why is this a problem only for girls?
Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky has not said, to the best of my knowledge, (and if I am wrong, I will gladly change my statement), that someone who is old enough and mature enough to use the internet unfiltered, may not do so.
Why the assumption that YFR was the implied Yeshiva? I dont live anywhere near the 5 towns and I can tell you that I assumed it was a reference to the yeshiva in MY neighborhood!
So it is 1 night out of the year. Whats your point? You cant be a (insert whatever word you wish here – the few that I have written and deleted were sure to be censored by the moderators) at any time and expect people to say “tomorrow things will be back to normal”. Is there a day off from acting like a yid?
Last year on Purim, an RV pulled up onto my corner around 11PM and started blaring music that could be heard (literally) 3-4 blocks away with the members of this group up dancing on the roof of the RV. No less than 25 people were outside within 5 minutes, some asking, some demanding, some pleading that they stop the music and let them and their kids sleep. Most of these people were not Jewish. Some were. “Its Purim” is not an excuse to act like a (censored). In fact, the fellows in this RV were escorted away by the police. Yes, that’s what it came to. Simchas Purim?
I think those too young and immature to use the internet unfiltered, should not. Those who are old enough and mature enough may do so. The same is true with a telephone and lashon hara, a car and reckless driving, the list is endless. “Internet” has become the fall guy for all that ails us and it is “banned”. Did anyone ban driving by everyone without a hetter from their rav that they are old enough and mature enough to drive safely?
It has been suggested in this forum that it is only a minority of people that take drinking to an excess. I suspect the same is also true of unfiltered internet usage.
The difference being, that a single person who falters online can negatively affect many people at once (the details have been spelled out at numerous asifos and dont require further details here). A person with a drinking problem, can negatively affect only those in proximity to him (although it can be quite a negative affect – especially if it causes injury or death).
It think if we spent more time teaching basic hashkafas hachaim and fostering greater yiras shamayim in yeshivos and bais yackovs we will be better equipped to deal with the challenges posed by the world wide web, drinking and anything else society throws our way. We dont. We are so busy saying that everything is bad, and then banning it, our kids dont know WHY these things are bad and when it isnt spelled out in black and white for them, they are at a loss how to proceed.
I watched a missionary “debate” several yeshiva bachurim on a Manhattan subway platform recently and they were simply at a loss about how to respond to his “questions”. (Its bad enough they werent even familiar with perek beis in tehillim) They really couldnt explain why yiddishkeit had an issue with people who claimed to be monotheistic but had a few different beliefs. They were unfamiliar with some of the basic Ani Maamins. If they cant deal with basic hashkafa questions, how can we expect them to deal with the challenges of the internet, peer pressure (drinking being an example – especially when it is clothed in “proofs” from poskim) and the myriad other activities that are the antithesis of what the torah wants from a yid. Stop banning and start teaching.
I highly doubt anyones Zaydes, or Rebbes, got so drunk to the point where they were puking their guts out and were a danger to themselves and those around them. The “famous posek” you reffer to, I doubt he was barfing all over the table and I highly doubt he gave his haskama to those who did so as well. Moreover, if he felt that the drinking done around him had nothing to do with ad dlo yada and everything to do with “having a good time” I am 100% certain he would have told those people to stop drinking.
Lastly, it is very easy to quote “famous posking”, “great roshei yeshiva” and “prominent rabbonim”. We all can. It is a completely unverifiable claim. Name names. Who said what tpo whom and when. Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky has been quoted as advocating the exact opposite of what you are. Please name a contemporary Rav or Rosh Yeshiva who disagrees with him. Rav Shmuel knows the Rambam and all the sources you cite and he STILL said what he did, are you saying he is at odds with them? He doesn’t know of them or understand them? For your “argument” to have any validity (in my eyes) please provide a name.
unfiltered internet can kill your neshama. Drinking to much can kill you physically. At least there is a chance at doing teshuva while your alive.
Again, those arguing for getting drunk. Is there a shitta anywhere that states the shiur of drunkeness is to the point of puking your guts out and you become a danger to yourself and all around you.
So now kids in specific schools are being labeled as bums and such?
Where is the hetter in that? Are the moderators drunk already?
To the one who quoted R Hirsch. Does HE agree it is ok to get so drunk, to the point where you are puking your guts out and become a danger to yourself and all around you?
So, is the “crisis” a result of not shmearing enough, or the right shadchanim? A result of shadchanim not working hard enough because of hurt feelings and the lack of hakaras hatov? Not enough shadchanim? Not enough members of a specific gender? Not enough members of a specific gender involved in shidduchim at a young enough age? To many people looking for a crisis and not shidduchim? To many people who have decided that this crisis is so overwhelming and they simply gave up? So many theories.
just asking those who seem to be “into” the discussion.
AZ. Its a matter of semantics. You yourself are not discussing this from the truly altruistic middah of hakaras hatov. You call it hakaras hatov. I call it shmearing. We both agree that the shadchanim will remember those who “remember” them.
Regarding how much shadchanim ask for. 18 years ago when I was dating, I was recommended to a shadchan. This shadchan wanted 5 thousand dollars, from each side for a successful shidduch. I didnt use him (never got past that first phone call), because I couldn’t afford him. If he is still around and involved in shidduchim, I would imagine that his fee has increased somewhat with time.
I would like to know exactly who (besides teenage yeshiva bachurim) understands that the gemara means one should get so plastered on purim that they are puking their guts out and are a danger to themselves and all around them.
Ben Levi. Mod-80. Joseph. Anyone?
AZ: You are suggesting today, that hakaras hatov be shown after the 3rd date. As people realize who the shadchanim are dealing with it will eventually become the 2nd, then the 1st, and then, prior.
Yes. I am suggesting parents do whatever it is they can for their own children. And they will. If shmearing someone is what it will take then there will be those who will do it.
Dale Carnegie writes that people are motivated by 2 things. Fear and money. What Az is suggesting (some may call it bribery, some may call it “mezumin” – doesnt the Rebbes Gabbai get a few bucks for his “effort”, call it what you like). You want the shadchan to work harder for you, give him or her something they appreciate. Money is pretty univesally appreciated. Whether this is a solution to any so called crisis is a seperate question.
I suspect, that when this “appreciation” is seen as a means to get shadchanim working for a particular person everyone will do it. Then we will have a new “crisis”, people will no longer be able to afford to show their appreciation as desperate parents, driven by an (not so?) irrational fear that their daughters (sons) will remain single forever, try to outdo each other in their displays of “hakaras hatov”. I would even go so far as to suggest that the shadchannim who accept the largest displays of hakaras hatov will be see as the “Lexus” of shadchanim, after all, you get what you pay for, resulting in shadchannim who simply dont have enough time for everyone (wait, isnt that where we are now?). Soon, people will see this as a lucrative field, and the quality of shadchanim will become so watered down, people will stop using them altogether, or go to a select few (again, back to where we are right now). When that happens, some “askanim” will try to create new “hakaras hatov” guidelines. Meanwhile, the only people who gained anything, are a select few shadchanim and a few couples who they managed to set up.
Actually, Ben Levi seems to be advocating drinking enough wine so that it knocks you out. Simply going to sleep, he/she appears to be saying, is not good enough. Then again, why quibble about what Ben Levi is saying. Let Ben Clarify his/her own comment.
TLC. Its not easy to be relaxed knowing that there are plenty of people who believe the only simchas purim is to get so drunk, to the point where you are puking your guts out while becoming a danger to yourself and everyone around you.
I before E except after C and any other time we decide to place the E before I. There are so many exceptions to this “rule” that it isnt a rule.
Ben Levi. Your simply looking for an excuse to drink more than a cup of wine (which is all you need to drink to be yotze kiddush, doraisa).
If your parents let you drink till you puke your guts out, go right ahead. All I, and most people, request, is you dont endanger us in any way in your drunken stupor. Not by getting behind the wheel of a car or any other way.
To summarize for you.
“My rav said, no way”.
“My rav said , go for it”.
What does YOUR rav say?
Ben Levi. Let’s say it IS assur, someone under 21 can always be yotze kiddush with someone above age. Same person can make kiddush on concord kal or other low alcohol wines. Your question is nothing more than excuse to “drink”.
Moreover, the largest shiur required for kiddush will not make you drunk – unless there is an opinion that holds the shiur is 1.5 liters. If one would get drunk on 8 ounces of normal wine, I suspect will be given a psak that he can be “maikel” and use grape juice.
Regarding the original question, all I can say is, despite the fact that medically I should not be drinking alcohol, and don’t, my simchas purim has never been compromised, and nobody has ever told me I was not yotze “purim”.
How about a tree, with colorful lights.
Mod-80. If I did not feel the desire to help save the life of a fellow Jew, I would not have sent emails (from a number of email addresses made up, just for the occasion as well as the address I always use) and made phone calls. However, the very fact that the request to save the life of a fellow Jew was clothed in terms about examining the facts of the case etc., etc., I wonder why this is not a consideration for ALL death row inmates. At least someone else was honest enough to write, “we do for our own”, let his do for him. Are our organizations saying the same thing?
PIDYON SHVUYIM everyone screamed for 3 weeks. Well, there are other shvuyim, where is the screaming for them? I think we are all a bunch of hypocrites.