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You daven on the train on the way to work. 🙂

Several weeks ago, I witnessed my rav walk over to several people after maariv and tell them “you can stop talking now, we finished davening”.

I still remember my days as a camp counselor and the policy that anyone over bar mitzvah was required to wear a hat and jacket. what I specifically remember were those who came from a backround that was not “black hat” in fact the hats were colorless, or shall I say they did not wear hats to davening. Push came to shove and camp policy won out. One guy purchased a hat in the disney store that had ears that flapped when you pulled a string under the chin. I’m not sure how it awakened anyone to daven with more kavanah, BUT he was wearing a hat! Thats all that seemed to matter.

This is very silly.

The tannaim and aamoriim had jobs, didnt they?

Hillel cut wood for a living. R’ Yitzchak Nafcha, was exactly what his name implied.

I do not intend to knock ANYONE who sits and learns, and I never will. If they can, kal hakavod to them. I wish I had the ability to learn 20 hours a day and provide for my family like I promised in my kesubah.

The mishna discusses each city to provide for “asara batlanim” so that a minyan of people would be engaged in learning all day and someone who entered the shul would always find a minyan if needed. the mishna does not say, to the best of my knowledge “kul hamarbe harei zeh mishubach” (that a city should try for 20 or 30 “batlanim”). That is an individual choice each person made. Some earned their parnassha in 2 hours a day. Others in 10 hours a day. Whatever it was, they used the remainder of their time to learn.

Halevay everyone should have the ability to learn for 20 hours a day, but until that becomes a reality, some people have to prepare for reality, put in the proper hishtadlus and get a degree so that can get a job. It shouldnt be disdianed.

YOUR lady?

Goodness, is this the South pre civil war?

I dont know the halacha but I remember Mishpacha magazine in the “monetary matters” section discussed the relevant halachos. The book “Lost Scotch” also discusses a similar case and the relevant halachos.

Again, why wasnt this last piece of the equation repeated to the “dass torah” who agreed that there was a valid claim to go to a din torah? Was the questioner afraid that the rav would have said “your right BUT, dont take your parents to a din torah”?

I would ask a Rav and not follow the opinions of someone you met in Cyberspace. Even one called Yeshiva World News.

It is an attitude. The “in your face” attitude of our generation, whether it be in dress, action, speech is all the antithesis of “hatznea leches”.

To those who insist on driving while distracted, and it includes lot more than talking on a phone. Eating, shaving, reading a paper, horsing around (the list is endless) I can only say “shomer pisayim hashem”, hashem should also watch over everyone these thoughtless people put in harms way with their dangerous actions.

My thoughts are my thoughts. That you choose to stimulate them, is MY problem as well as yours (lifnei iver is something women are obligated to avoid as well).

Your personal attack aside, you avoided answering my question. Why do you dress to impress other women? Are you insecure that you have to do this? Is their some sort of scoring system with judges scoring how women are dressed? Do you receive an update once a week and when you see you are falling behind dress even more provocatively to get other womens attention (of course men will be wearing blinders and staring at the sidewalk and wont see any of this – except for me on a bad day, everyone else is a perfect tzadik). Is one upmanship consistent with hatznea leches?

I’m surprised my earlier message was deleted. Either it should have never been posted or once up, left up. I dont think there was a major lack of tznius AND the questions posed in that message still need answering. In this “in your face generation” there are certain things that I would prefer not to have in my face, certainly not placed there by frum women.

Frumteen. Ohr Nava is NOT for those who are in the dark alleys and the other places you describe. It is for the girl or boy who would not do those things unless they were placed in a situation where they were tempted to do so. The ability to bowl without that temptation is TREMENDOUS. I am the father of a teen. I allow my child to go bowling motzai shabbos this summer because the temptations while waiting for a lane are no longer there.

You missed the point entirely, but then again, most teens (or those who think them) usually do.

On the lighter side of things. I cant seem to choose the “right” bungalow colonoy for the summer, the “right” kiddush to attend where pritzus and shikrus are rampant or the simcha where the women are dressed provocatively. I seem to miss out on everything 🙁

On a more serious note.

A mans wife has a lot of sway over the way he acts. If the wives of the colony would tell their husbands they didnt approve of the way they stagger out of shul on shabbos morning, perhaps it would lead to a discussion of what might be wrong with it. If a wife speaking to her husband leads nowehere, then these men have a bigger problem than drinking (unless it is the wives that drive them to drink to begin with – ok, thats an attempt – albeit a poor one – at humor).

If the “standing Rav” is an alcoholic how should his “congregants” behave any different, after all, if its good enough for the Rav…..

Left unsaid is, where are the children in all this? Are they sent out of shul prior to the drinking? Do they witness the drinking or just the aftermath? What lesson are the kids learning?

Is the shul an appropriate place to binge drink? The way this is described makes it sound like a frat party, and not a kiddush in shul. In fact, the behavior described is the antithesis of the word kiddush!

Perhaps the non drinkers should start their own baseball team? I would imagine there are at least 9 out of the 40 men who do not indulge in this binge drinking. There must be at least 9 scotch drinkers in the crowd who are not involved in the guzzling of bourbon.

I guess many in the “Jewish music” industry follow the psak of the Chida 🙂

This is the classical catch 22 situation.

On the one hand, we want our best bachurim to learn as much as possible, on the other hand, we want the best bachurim to be the counselors of our children for the influence they can have on them.

Practically speaking, extending the yeshiva ketana school year through Tammuz albeit on a lighter schedule is not all that practical considering counselors are STILL needed for the time that the children would be in english classes. Moreover, kids would still be home at 5pm with nothing to do. The last 3-4 hours of daylight would make everyone crazy with not much to do.

There are a number of fine yeshivos that do NOT require their high school bachurim to attend the “yeshivas camp” for Tammuz and the bachurim are allowed to work in camps. In fact, it does not appear that camps have a lack of quality counselors.

Lesschumras. You are splitting hairs. At any rate, we are often not talking about style of music but rather ACTUAL MUSIC from non jewish songs some popular and some not so.

You also have to consider that a bad experience sometimes makes people wary about doing something.

I was a passenger in a car going from South Fallsburg back to the city. A young couple was waiting, with who I assumed correctly were their parents at a popular hitching area. I stopped. the father asked if I was going to Brooklyn. I replied I was, to Flatbush. I was asked if I could take the youg couple to Boro Park. I said yes. The father told me that they are from WilliB, but didnt want to take me to far out of the way and they would catch a bus from BP back to WilliB. I didnt argue, especially since neither I, or the driver knew our way around WilliB and we would arrive well after midnight.

Of course, it was time for the young couple to climb in. Not going into details, the wife couldnt sit next to her husband (this was in a minivan that had 2 separate seats in the middle row, but to each their own), so I had to move to the middle row next to the husband and the wife climbed into the passenger seat in front.

The conversation in the van was non-existent, neither I nor the drive speak much yiddish. The wife who spoke english, wouldnt speak with men. The driver and I conversed in english and the couple conversed in Yiddish. We basicly ignored each other. It was quite uncomfortable.

Of course, there was a lot of traffic and we didnt get to the GWB until close to 1AM. At that point, we didnt feel comfortable leaving this couple in BP to search for a car service and told them we would take them to WilliB. Due to the language barrier directions to their apartment was not easy. We spent 30 minutes driving around until we happened to find the right street. It was now 2am and we had to figure out how to get out of WilliB and over to flatbush. We finally found a copy who gave us directions.

Now, dont get me wrong, I do not regret the chesed at all. But at the same time, it is in the back of my mind anytime I see someone looking for a ride.

It is very easy to say “did you think about that?” to someone who doesnt stop to pick someone up. To those who are standing with their thumbs out, did you ever think about what I just wrote and why someone is hesitant to stop?

Its been examined. Anyway, we ARE better because we have the Torah. Of course, having the torah and living how its wants us to, are 2 different things.

Gelt is “borrowed” from the Rap genre of music. I am not talking about the words, just the style of music.

A number of guitar solos sound very much like Jimmi Hendrix (of course Lipa is not playing the guitar, nor is he the musical composer, but it is called his album and his song).

This is not limited to Lipa. Much of what passes for Jewish music today, the music, the sound and style, is ripped straight from pop culture.

Mine is “Bubbys”, in Forest Hills (NY). Nothing like it. Service is great, portions are huge, no reservation is ever needed, the food is delicious and the price just can’t be beat.

I’m sure everyone feels the same about their own Bubbys cooking.

I always had a lot of respect for my Rebbe, despite the fact that he was a big smoker. The level of respect shot way up when he quit smoking. He explained “how” he quit.

His Rebbe, held like the opinions that one should not smoke on Yom Tov (I am not issuing a psak, merely stating the opinion held by this Rosh Yeshiva,) so no matter how much my Rebbe wanted to smoke, he knew that his own Posek ruled no, so he did not, it was akin to eating treif. It was that much harder on a “3 day yom tov”. Nevertheless, he managed to survive without smoking. After Yom Tov, he wanted to light up. He tried to rationalize “hop he addicted he is”, “how enjoyable it is” and then he realized he lived without this “addiction” for three days and nothing happened to him. He felt that all the reasons he gave for smoking until that point, were nothing more than excuses. He simply stopped smoking. As a product of a “Slabodka Mussar” yeshiva, the gadlus ha’adam told him, stop giving into this naarishkeit. And he did. Cold Turkey. He stopped smoking about 3 minutes before Shkiya one Erev Yom Tov and never resumed.

I’m not sure I understand this entire thread. I would LOVE to go to Eretz Yisroel, I cant afford it, so I dont go. I would LOVE to fly to Vienna to be at my nephews wedding. I dont have the money for the ticket, I dont go. I understand bachurim want to go to their friends wedding, but sometimes, it just isnt meant to be, whether it is due to finances, time constraints or other obligations. Does someone have a right to expect to be reimbursed for attending ANY function?

Come on, everyone knows what happened on TV. They saw it when they were over at their grandparents house 🙂

(Written with tongue firmly planted in cheek)

I think we should stop putting up plaques for all those who donate to worthy causes, after all, how do those who do not have money to donate feel when they see the plaque?

The “shabbos parade” up Kings Highway held every year has done wonders for Kedushas Shabbos. Specifically, the number of Jewish owned stores that are now closed on Shabbos.

I wonder if it is time to organize a “Tznius parade”, stopping at all heimishe owned stores, displaying clothing that “crosses the line” and threatening not to shop their until the store fully removes all clothing not suitable for the members of our community. Notice, I did not say women, men have no hetter to wear outlandish, loud and garrish clothing either. There may be no rules about hemlines and necklines but rules still do exist.

Of course, the self righteous will start with “its yennems parnassa, who gives you the right” (I doubt they feel this way if we were talking about kasrush of food or chillul shabbos), and similar “arguments”, but perhaps it is time.

Just a thought.

It IS true the locals don’t like us. I go to South Fallsburg 8-10 times during the winter. I have family living there. The difference is, that for 10 months of the year, we are not the majority population. For 2 months of the year, we are.

Lets call a spade a spade. When the Wal-Mart in Monticello had to send a letter to the Agudah discussing the horrible chillul hashem made in many ways over the summer months, it wasn’t because they hate us. They love every one of the millions of dollars we spend in their store, summer after summer after summer. What they DO NOT like, and rightfully so, is that we take advantage of a return policy in ways not intended. Is there a reason Wal-Mart has been reffered to as the Toy Gemach, Bike Gemach and A/C Gemach? That we take advantage of a large air conditioned store and use it as a babysitting service. I dont know what the policy is on 13th avenue or Lee avenue or on Ave J (insert your own avenue here), but if store policy is that one should refrain from riding the bicycles around the toy section, then it must be honored, even if it just for “a few minutes”. Must camps take their staff to Wal-Mart UNSERPERVISED for staff night out?

The Laytzanus and Kalush Rosh that occurs in the store is unaccaptable by ANYONES standards, certainly not ours.

. Should teenage girls be racing shopping carts up and down the aisles? (Iv’e been hit by these wagons, luckily for the girls I was not a “local”.

. Should underage boys and girls be asking people to buy beer for them? (Been asked a number of times – where is the camp supervision of these kids?)

. Is it proper to return an obviously used bicycle during the last week of August because “my son is too big for it”? The customer service lines the last week of August with customers returning things is a sight to behold. I bet no other store in america does that many returns in a month, as this WalMart does in a week.

Lets leave the store for moment and head out into the parking lot. Double parking, horn honking, blocking pedestrians and cars. It doesnt matter that “they do it too”. WE should know and act better.

Lets leave the parking lot and head out to the streets. Speeding, double parking, incessant horn honking. WE should know better. We probably DO know better, but dont act on it.

I am NOT in any way saying that WE act like this. However, even if ONE of us acts this way it is a chillul hashem and it reflects on All of us. Unfortunately more than one of us act this way, a small minority to be sure, but vocal and visible enough to have US painted with a very broad brush a certain way.

Yaasher Koach to Ohr Naavah for having the guts to say it like it is and DOING something about it. At least the girls will have a place to go Motsai Shabbos. Now we have to find something for them to do 5 more nights of the week (hopefully, they dont go far on Friday night). Perhaps the camps should rethink where they let their staff go, and when. Parents who allow their children to work in the mountains have an achraiyus to make certain they know what their children are doing after work hours while they are 125 miles away in the city. Perhaps those who employ them should be required to keep an eye on them? I know it is not realistic, but from some of the comments people made about Agriprocessors and their choice of employees, at least THEY should agree that employers be careful who they hire.

At the end of the day, each individual is responsible for their own actions and the kiddush hashem (or chas veshalom, chillul hashem) it creates.

Is it WalMarts fault? Lets not be ridiculous. Is it the fault of the “locals” who “hate” us for blowing things out of proportion? Come on, lame excuse. Besides, we SHOULD be held to a higher standard, dont we believe that WE are the AM SEGULA? Parents and camps that allow children to roam free are the true culprits. What do they expect their children to do with unfettered freedom?