I would like to point out that my rebbe wasn’t a kanoi. His advice was based on actual real-life experience with counseling newlyweds. Considering my yeshiva had a lower divorce rate than average for the Orthodox community (what some are calling the “divorce crisis”), I’d say he knew his audience well.

The biggest problem with the WS games is that they tend to end after midnight.

Thank you, Bemused, for that wonderful post. Chazak ve’ematz.

Havesomeseichel, agreed 100% it’s a chillul Hashem. The gentiles will look at our divinity scholars and will see that they need government subsidies because the community doesn’t pay enough to support them, and they will tsk-tsk at our lack of respect.

What paper will do an expose on the kollel yungeleit who are taking government subsidies? The liberal papers won’t touch the subject, as anything attacking their sacrosanct liberal subsidies won’t be touched. The conservative papers, run by Christians tend to respect religion and religious study more than Jews do. (Churches are whisper-quiet on Sundays. Shuls are noisy on Shabbosos). The only scandal worth noting for papers is when people lie and cheat to get programs they don’t deserve, or evade taxes. That’s what sells papers. That doesn’t apply to kollel people. It applies to working people who hide their income.

With a stubbornly high unemployment rate that will take until 2017 to return to 2006 levels, nobody will be begrudging those who deserve it from taking it, especially if they’re engaged in intellectual pursuits instead of criminal activity.

The advice I was given doesn’t apply to a couple about to start their second centennial like Avrohom and Sarah. It also doens’t apply to having bachurim or a couple married a longer time. Efsher lekayem sheneihem.

Cherrybim, is Rav Dovid Cohen actually arguing on Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT”L or not? “Mima nafshach” (there’s that Aramaic thing again)- if he is, what’s his mekor? If not, what’s the “nafka minah”?

Even on the tzad (one that is rachok min haseichel, but lu yitzuyar) that he holds it’s a mitzvah, wouldn’t he agree that a yid is better off spending his free time learning actual Torah instead of Yiddish?

How is waiting a year or 2 before going to another young couple a lack of “kavod habriot”?

Jphone, in no other generation were things so overt as they are now. Between prusta commercials on CBS newsradio during morning hours to highly provocative ads to extremely liberal social mores to highly available pritzus unrealistic expectations for wives caused by such highly available pritzus, the yetzer hara is stronger than ever. Plus, people are more ready to consider a divorce today than before. finally, according to my rav, people today are more immature than they used to be. Combine all these factors and there’s a good reason why a rav or rebbe would give such advice- NOT an issur, but practical advice based on the hours of counseling and dozens of people spoken to.

Goody613, Rav Moshe ZT”L says that Yiddish, which was known as “lashon Ashkenaz” (IE, the Germanic tongue)in all the seforim hakedoshim until very recently, was no different than Arabic or Spanish which became Ladino. He actually asks, how could the Jews speak Spanish, Arabic, Germanic (which evolved into yiddish) if the Jews didn’t change their language in mitzrayim? He answers that that was only when the Jews had no other distinguishing features. In other words, Yiddish IS A VIOLATION of “lo shinu es leshonam”, as it was the local Germanic tongue isntead of Hebrew or Aramaic.

Just-a-guy, there’s a reason why the English language has an expression “content as cows”.

Of course, our modern farms put cows and pigs under as much stress as nay human. The PETA website is full of examples of this, which is why our American cows have such low Beis Yosef kashrus rates. But that’s for another thread.

SJS, I’m glad you have been relatively unaffected by this economic downturn, so you are able to gaze from your lofty financial perch and look disdainfully at the hoi polloi who need government assistance to pay the bills. However, as Artchill pointed out in another thread, many families who were formerly very comfortable are now struggling to make ends meet. There is a 10% unemployment rate. Statistically speaking, that means 20% of homes where both parents worked are now making do with 1 breadwinner. And of course, there are homes where both breadwinners were laid off.

As for the kollel people who take government support, 47% of American don’t pay taxes. Many inner-city residents are happily taking government money while living the good life. Why is the money going to those engaged in an intellectual pursuit so terrible? Furthermore, do you think, in an economy with such high unemployment (6 people per job opening), they could actually get a job?

Finally, nobody who is taking government money is taking money from your pocket directly.

Please have a heart and have rachmanut on those who aren’t in your financial matzav.

There’s a reason this thread is in the “humor and entertainment” section. Thank you Ktzoys for the milsa debedichusa. Now let’s get back to REAL mitzvos.

Ana madbera aramis- the “lishna de’ima!”

Cherrybim, if there’s no halachic nafka mina, then “mosar Yiddish min ha’English ayin”.

The government actively discourages people from making money. I have a relative who had to turn down a job because taking the job would cost more in benefits lost. The government tosses tons of money at people who qualify, courtesy of our strong socialist streak. Why shouldn’t I get everything I’m entitled to? If someone offered to give you money, would you turn it down?

The chareidim had very little power, as Rabbi Steven Wise of the Reform Movement thwarted their efforts with the government. If You read the book about Mike tress, it becomes clear that thy tried as much as they could, but couldn’t do as much as they wanted. Faced with a limited number of visas, they had to triage and focus on the ones who would help rebuild Yiddishkeit. At the time, people were saying that Orthodox Judaism would die, replaced by movements like Conservative Judaism which would appeal to the younger generation. The rabbis who were saved from the holocaust rebuilt Orthodox Judaism both here and in Eretz Yisroel, and it is flourishing today. Anyone who ever knew these rabbis testified to their selflessness. The Vaad Hatzalah made the right choices, although it must have been very tough for them.

Part of the Great Society is that it’s easy to get on programs. If the government is giving away money, why shouldn’t people take it?

I hate the Yankees but hate service cuts and tax increases more. Go Yankees!

Tzippi, agreed 100%. But separate classes are better.

I agree with Sammygol.

My hostility isn’t toward Yiddish. It’s toward the idea that it’s a lashon hakodesh, with is against shas poskim. Mitzvos have a mekor. no mekor, no mitzvah, no matter how nostalgic you are for it. I say pink bandannas are now holy, and everyone has to wear one. Mekor? none, but if you attack it I will lament the “hostility toward this holy mitzvah”. The Torah doesn’t work that way.

There were 4 main dialects of yiddish, northwestern, Southwestern, northeastern, and southeastern- Polish, Ukranian, Lithuanian, German, etc. Some had more Russian words, some had more Polish words. Which one is holy?

Rav Dovid Cohen’s book was meant as aggada, not halacha. The Rambam says Hebrew (both lashon chachomim and lashon Tanach dialects) are holy. He says nothing about any other language. I have yet to see a psak of his that it is a full mitzvah to speak yiddish, and if he does, he is going ahgainst Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT”L who was much bigger. Why are the words of Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT”L not enough to establish what is and what isn’t a mitzvah?

The upstart Highlanders still competing with the Giants?

The CR has a simultaneous thread about the shidduch crisis. If you reduce the economic incentive, you reduce the availability of shadchanim. Does anyone here think that will HELP the shidduch crisis?

Feif Un, a slight quibble. the Ibn Ezra adds Aramiac and Arabic as Leshonos Hakodesh due to their Semitic origins. The Maharal says Aramaic is holier than Hebrew. But German isn’t holy, even if written in Hebrew letters. the mishna brurah says one can daven in any language if he understands that language, but it’s better to Davenb in Loshon Hakodesh. Not a word about Yiddish, except (iirc) to call it lashon ashkenaz!

Furthermore, this idea wasn’t originated by an ivory tower kanoi scanning obscure seforim to find a new chumra to foist upon the Orthodox world. The idea came from my rebbe, who was actively involved in counseling couples and mediation for shalom bayis.

I think much of the Yiddish worship today, which wasn’t evident in Europe, is that we have an idealized vision of Europe in our minds today, when those who actually lived in Europe had no such delusions. As Rav Avigdor Miller writes in one of his books, Kovna, in 1932, had a bus leaving every half hour for the mechalelei shabbos to go to work. By the time he left in 1938, the bus left every 5 minutes.

Yiddish is a nice language. But with the limited free time available to us in the working class, my free time is better spent on a long-term investment in my Olam Haba- learning Torah and doing mitzvos.