As Shlomo hamelech said, “for a living dog is better than a dead Mac OS X Lion”..

the saddest part is that for his wake they’ll dress him in a suit, and he’ll look like Mr. PC…

{the above content is now the exclusive property of YWN}

ka-ching! -95

Coffee room rules say:

Anything you submit becomes the property of YWN.

So the editor is within his legal right to deny bombmaniac’s request. It’s ywn’s post now to monetize.

And I’m within my legal rights to boycott ywn and ywn coffee room until bombmaniac’s request is granted.

So this is my last post and visit bl”n until I have been informed by one of the mods that his request has been granted.

I was told by my “Chosson rebbe” that having beds of different sizes is a lack of tznius, vehamayven yavin. My Rosh hayeshiva zt”l was against larger beds but i only found this out after I purchased mine. As always ask your LOR or halachic advisor.

I personally am concerned for Joseph.

I would like to qualify bombmaniac’s statement by saying that there are programs you don’t recognize but are still legit. Write down the EXACT names and google them. A good place to check is http://www.what-is-exe.com/. If you still don’t recognize it, spyware/malware. Many well-written malware programs will just re-insert themselves into the startup, which is why booting into safe mode and running antivirus is a great idea.

It might be a virus/malware. Boot the computer in safe mode (press f8 when booting), and while in safe mode see if you can get to task manager. Then run virus checkers. Panda Cloud Antivirus, Malwarebytes Anti Malware, and Super anti spyware are 3 good free virus checkers.

You can also download something from microsoft called process explorer. It’s like Task manager but more powerful.

BMG has a right to have a say. That said, many chashuveh rabbonim endorsed Christie, against the Vaad’s recommendations.

When I was a kid, we would ask “Where is Eliyahu Hanovi? Where is Moshiach?” Today we ask “Where is Fiveish?”

I am quite aware it’s an Internet prank. It’s also very old- nobody uses “sysop” anymore. Reminds me of my old BBS days with my 2400 baud modem.

Rav Kook ZT”L didn’t seem to halachically pasken they couldn’t. He just felt it would be destructive to family life. He would agree that in today’s society, where it’s not, women have full suffrage rights. This is why quoting old teshuvos based on a completely different social structure is dangerous. This is also why you need a rav instead of paskening out of a sefer.

Volvie, I didn’t know you were a talmid of Rav Kook ZT”L. For the rest of us, something is muttar until you know it’s assur, and Rav kook ZT”L had a svara not a sourced halacha. when the Gedolim issue proclamations to vote, they don’t write “men only”. Therefore, I have to assume that most gedolim hold it’s ok.

Orchos Tzaddikim- amazing sefer. Shaar hakinah in the sefer and related she’arim.

The Ipad can’t even multitask, except through wacky workarounds (streaming the sound through Safari, for example)

It will be a success, though, just because Steve Jobs made it. But the Android pads will be much more capable. Go for the cheaper, more capable Android OS pads.

Yes there is such a group as JOFA. But that’s for a separate thread. they’re the ones pushing women’s laining, women’s prayer groups, women dancing with the Torah, women rabbis, etc.

Chayey Adam says “nohagin ktzas simcha” at night.

Drinking IS a part of Purim, and is a core part of the mitzvah. Drinking to sechok and holellus instead of simcha is not, and drinking to the point that one is mevatel mitzvos isn’t either. I look forward to reading Rabbi Rosenberg’s column, but i would like to see what he does with the consensus of poskim who hold that the common “rolling on the floor in vomit”-type drinking is completely assur, and is not the mitzvah. Even the chayey Adam holds that drinking where one ends up being mevatel brochos, bentching, maariv etc is completely assur. Passing out before bentching is completely assur (and yes I spent many years in yeshiva so don’t tell me this doesn’t happen).

Volvie, I opened the sifrei halacha and didn’t FIND these “100% valid poskim who hold one should drink himself to the floor”. The ball is in YOUR court to find the mainstream poseik who backs up your view of the mitzvah. I quoted EVERY nosei keli on the pages of the Shulchan Aruch, and the ones in the back. I also quoted the poskim acharonim. I can’t find ANY who say that today one SHOULD be mekayem it “kepsheuto”. Please tell me who I missed. As I’m just a balabos, I’m sure there must be some lamdan in your beis midrash who knows the source for a “held-of poseik” who says one SHOULD drink himself to the floor. No such poseik in the Tur, Shulchan Aruch (Mechaber is pashtus agreeing with what he wrote in the Beis Yosef), mishna brura, aruch hashulchan, etc. “Oilem goilem” or “everybody does it” is not a poseik in my book. The mishna brurah is, and he disagrees with you. I can’t admit to a fact if no poseik I look at agrees with it.

The only tzad is the chayey Adam (who is NOT the yeshivishe olam’s poseik- the mishna brurah is). He says “chayav adam lehistaker, ulekol hapachos yosier mekedei ragilo”, but even he adds that 1. One who would be mezalzel in a mitzva shouldn’t get drunk and 2. One’s actions should be lesheim shomayim. As minors are much more likely to be mezalzel in mitzvos when they get drunk, one can’t even claim it’s a mitzvah according to the Chayey Adam.

But, as pointed out, the MAJORITY of poskim hold there is no MITZVAH to do so, and according to many it’s an aveirah. So giving alcohol to someone who already had alcohol (assuming it’s the daytime, when there’s a chiyuv to drink) is a KULA, not a chumra, since according to most mainstream poskim there is no mitzvah to drink more, and according to the mishna brurah (THE poseik for the yeshivishe olam) one SHOULDN’T drink more. At night, of course, when there is NO mitzvah, then getting drunk is like any other day and it completely assur.

Ben Levi, what does “ad delo yada” mean according to your rabbeim?

And kashrus organizations haven’t assured scotch yet.

From my post in the “minors and alcohol” thread:

I went through the poskim in order, with all of the major poskim covered- no cherry-picking or selective quoting. Feel free to double-check.

Let’s start off with the Tur, Orach Chaim 695.

1. The Beis Yosef (aka the mechaber in Orach chaim and the Mishna Brurah) quotes the Ran and Rabbeinu Ephraim- idchi ley maamar derava based on story of Rava and Rav Zeira. In other words, chayav inish is NOT lehalacha.

2. He then quotes the Orchos Chaim- levsuem IS kehalacha, but it doesn’t mean rolling on the floor drunk in your own vomit. To quote the lashon hakodesh,

????? ????? ????, ???? ?? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ???? ?????? ?????, ?? ????? ???? ??????? ???

“drunkenness is completely prohibited, and you do not find a bigger aveirah than it, as it causes illicit relations, murder, and many other sins besides. however one should drink a bit more than he is used to”. (translation mine)

3. On another point, the Beis Yosef says that there is no mitzvah to drink at night because it says YEMEI mishteh vesimcha- the DAYS of drinking and happiness.

4. The Bach says punkt fakehrt of how you quoted it. He does start off saying what you said, but lehalacha says like Rabbeinu Ephraim and the Ran- idchi ley. However, one should drink enough to be happy, and one should still have one’s wits about him (“daato alav”) even if he can’t stand in front of a king. This is NOT rolling on the floor in the vomit drunk. Furthermore, even THIS level is lemitzvah velo le’ikuva.

5. The maharsha in Bava metzia 21 agrees with this, and says a tzurva meirabanan (A real talmid chochom) is allowed to claim he reached a level of ad delo yada on Purim even though he was yada. Clearly no issur in remaining sober according the the Maharsha.

Now we move on to the Shulchan Aruch.

6. The Taz says a deep vort about how elevated arur haman is, but Baruch mordechai is even more sublime. you drink until you can’t comprehend this fine difference. This isn’t ROFIV (rolling on the floor in vomit) drunk either.The Taz explains the Rema like his shver the Bach- ein laasos kein- it’s assur to take the gemara literally as idchi ley like the Ran- we don’t pasken that way.

7. The Mogen Avraham says that Ad delo Yada means you can’t calculate gematrios of arur haman and baruch mordechai. Not ROFIV drunk either.

8. The Pri Megadim in the Mishbitzos Zahav approves of the Taz, and quotes the Pri chadash who agrees with this that “ein laasos kein” and says “vechein raui linhog”. See later for more on the exact wording of the Pri Chadash.

9. the Yad Ephraim says that one should drink to be happy, but not beyond that.

10. To be fair and honest, the Shaarei Teshuva quotes the Amudei Shomayim that his father used to be mekayeim the words kepshuto when he was younger. However, one shouldn’t do so if it leads to devarim shelo kehogen.

11. The Pri Chadash (the one quoted by the Pri Megadim in the mishbitzos) argues on Rabbeinu Ephraim whop said idchi ley, and holds that ad delo yada kepshuto is technically how we pasken. So theoretically one is doing a mitzvah by doing ROFIV. HOWEVER, now that the doros are mukulkalim (his words, not mine- since the generations are ruined, one SHOULDN’T drink so much, and by not drinking so much he’ll see blessing from heaven since he’s doing so lishmah. So he argues THEORETICALLY on the Ran and Rabbeinu Ephraim, but agrees PRACTICALLY.

12. Someone in the back of the Friedman edition Shulchan Aruch asks on the Rema why he wrote it the way he did, if it’s based on Rabbeinu Ephraim, and one SHOULDN’T drink that much. Regardless, the mishna brurah paskens like the Pri Megadim who paskens like the Pri chadash that one shouldn’t drink so much.

13. The Sefas Emes quoted by Volvie is on Megilla 7b, according to the Piskei teshuvos. I read it as saying one doesn’t need to get to ROFIV. The Piskei Teshuvos reads him as saying that one SHOULDN’T, just like the Yad Ephraim.

14. I did not look up the Chacham Tzvi.

15. As for the Shlah, I looked at the Kitzur Hashlah and he mostly rips the drinking going on as being sechok vehollelus instead of simcha shel mitzvah, and that people think the Torah doesn’t apply over Purim, and this is an “avon pelili-” a tremendous sin.

Bottom line- the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of mainstream poskim hold that one shouldn’t drink himself to ROFIV. The Pri chadash, who is halacha according to the Pri Megadim and Mishna Brurah, says that with the destruction of the generations, ad delo yada is like the mitzvah of yibum, NO LONGER APPLICABLE.

It is an AVEIRAH, according to many poskim (Ran, Rabbeinu Ephraim, Beis Yosef, Bach, Pri chadash, Pri Megadim, Mishna Brurah, Yad Ephraim, Shla”h), to drink to the point of shichruso shel lot. And NOBODY holds the Torah becomes hefker.

It is an AVEIRAH to give alcohol to any minor, even forgetting about dina demalchusa, as you would be causing them to violate the words of the poskim.

hudyrox, correct. No difference. The psak of ad delo yada doesn’t mean literal “shichruso shel lot” according to the mishna brurah, the poseik of the yeshivish world. It means drinking a bit more than usual and napping.

This is going to be a departure from the usual posts in this thread, as it will actually site sifrei halacha instead of “internet Torah” quoting various seforim or “boych svaros”.

There is usually an issur to be mevatel one’s daas, and the mitzvah of drinking by the sudas Purim is the exception to the rule. The mitzvah of drinking is connected with the seudah, and there is no mitzvah of seudah at night (OC and MB 695).

The Mishna Brurah (THE poseik for those in yeshivish circles, not the obscure seforim quoted as the heter) says (based on the Pri MeGadim) that the shita of the Rem”a is “raui laasos”- i.e, that is the PROPER shita to follow, NOT the shita of getting completely stoned. Therefore, giving alcohol to a yeshiva bochur is a VIOLATION of the halacha he should be following, even if it’s in the daytime, even forgetting about the secular laws of giving alcohol to minors. At night, of course, when there is no mitvah, it’s as assur as it always is to drink. The Shaarei Teshuva brings down that those who come to improper behavior should NOT drink more than usual, and quotes the gemara of Rabbi Yehuda bar Ilai who only drank on Pesach, meaning he never drank on Purim. So a real yeshiva bochur trying to fulfill the mitzvah as properly as possible will be following the Rem”a, NOT the other shitos.

The Beis yosef furthermore says (Brought down in Aruch Hashulchan 695) that drinking so much is ASSUR. If a bochur wants to drink that much, he is oveir an aveirah. So claiming a bochur who wants to reach shichruso shel Lot is being mekayem a mitzvah is wrong, as according to many mainstream poskim he is doing an aveirah. The Aruch Hashulchan holds the mitzvah is to drink, and drinking more than little bit is a reshus, whereas it’s usually assur. So if a yeshiva bochur comes to my house at night asking for alcohol, I tell him there is no mitzvah to drink at night, so it’s an aveirah. In the daytime, I say that the mitzvah is at the seudah. And at the seudah, I quote the mishna brurah. So Volvie, when should you give a bochur alcohol, even if there’s no sakanah problem (which there unfortunately is today)?

Bottom line for litvish yeshiva bochurim, and you can confirm it with the Mishna Brurah and the Aruch Hashulchan, along with Rav Shmuel Kaminetzky Shlit”a:

There IS a mitzvah to drink on Purim. The is, according to many poskim (among them the Beis Yosef), an AVEIRAH to drink to shichruso shel lot, as this leads to many aveiros. According to the Aruch Hashulchan, it’s a reshus to drink to that point, but the mitzvah is just a little bit. According to the Pri Megadim, who is seconded by the Mishna Brurah, the Rema’a method is the PREFERRED way. Finally, there is no mitzvah to drink at night. So by not giving a bochur alcohol, you are being MACHMIR on halacha, not meikel on halacha, even forgetting about chamira sakanta mei’issura.Volvie’s “common understanding of ad delo yada” has as much halachic standing as the common misconception that shalach manos needs to have 2 brachos. A little bit of light chases away much darkness.

Volvie, one doesn’t hava a halachic obligation to make sure a bochur fulfills HIS mistaken notion of what the shita is. As long as he drinks his revi’is and naps he is yotzei.

Secondly, there is no mitzvah to drink at night, so there is clearly no hciyuv to give a minor alcohol at night.