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JotharMember
Sam2, The Rov himself said that his version of Judaism was different. So why would any current rebbe at riets think differently than the Rav?
October 17, 2011 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm in reply to: What to do to the chazzan who takes too long for hallel #818585JotharMemberThe mishna says they threw esrogim at a certain tzeduki who did the wrong nisuch hamayim. josephus mentions astory where they pelted Yannai hamelech with esrogim, who got his revenge by ordering a massacre.
October 17, 2011 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm in reply to: What to do to the chazzan who takes too long for hallel #818582JotharMemberBar shatya is frustrated because he lost his nechasim, and every time he reads about the nesachim in the laining he gets confused and thinks they are his.
JotharMemberPopa bar abba likes Romanian sausage, but will not share with his wife, as per the Lubavitch thread.
JotharMemberThe tragedy isn’t so much ignorance as much as avoda zarah.
JotharMemberToi, you’re “asking good”. If someone has a copy of the “Thinking out loud” book and can post the exact quote, it would be enlightening.
JotharMemberDepends on the community. In very yeshivish/chassidish communities, the “trophy” is yichus instead of looks (Rosh yeshiva’s daughter, einikle of this or that rebbe, etc). In other communities, the trophy wife is based on looks. This is an old practice, and used to be encouraged by the girls during their dances in the vineyards and orchards, according to the gemara in Tannis 25. The ones with the looks would advertise their looks, the the ones with the yichus would stress their yichus, and the ones with nothing would say “sheker hachein vehevel hayofi”.
JotharMemberPoppa, all segulos work assuming you have the right kavanos and you follow the instructions to the letter. It took me months to get my silver segula ring of power correct from following the footnote in the kav hayashar, and the +hit and +dam values are still off.
You must remember that the aravos represent those who have no Torah and no mitzvos, and are thus easily affected by the havlei olam. The more exposure to hevel, the worse they are. So the segulah is a 3-parter:
1. the foil must be long enough to engulf the entire aravos to protect them from the havlei olam , and the Aravos must be kept in them at all times when not in use to minimize exposure to the tum’ah of the olam.
2. Torah is compared to water, and the aravos desperately need water to minimize the pernicious effects of the havlei olam. so the foil must be lined with a wet paper towel long enough to engulf the entire aravah. If the towel dries up, the water must be replaced.
3. Hislahavus is great for tefila but bad for learning, which is best done with a kerirus hada’as. So the package must be stored in the fridge, and (this was probably your mistake) the FRIDGE MUST BE PLUGGED IN.
Finally, letting your wife borrow your arbah minim seems to cause the wilting to accelerate. This is for one of 2 reasons:
1. Women, as they are on a higher spiritual plane, do not understand how exposure to the havlei olam hazeh ruins the amei ha’aretz represented by the aravos. So they leave them exposed to the hevel more than they should be.
2. “bah isha, ba satan” has a very bad effect on amei ha’aretz who don’t have Torah to be magna umatzla. so mere exposure to women can wilt the aravos and make them meisim afilu bechayeihem.
JotharMemberI bumped into poppa bar abba in New York once. He made a joke in Latin which is hard to translate.
JotharMemberWikipedia has a great summary of all the shitos on Lubavitch, ayein sham. You are sure to find one by a gadol you like.
The purpose of this thread is like any other here in the CR- allow people to spew their thoughts and feel like they accomplished something, thereby creating sticky content, causing people to click on ad links, thereby generating income for the website owner. The more controversial, the stickier the content. And thus the sausage is made. Sorry for breaking the 4th wall again.
JotharMemberCharn, Joseph used to post the same material. He might not appreciate you swiping his material. 🙂
In the book “Thinking Aloud”, which was based on the things the Rav told his secretary in the 70’s, he mentions that when he first formulated his views on modern Orthodoxy, the Orthodox shuls were full of old people and the Conservative and Reform had the youth. So he thought that a pure Torah Orthodoxy just wouldn’t work. He admitted that he was mistaken.
JotharMemberBanim yafeh misimanim.
JotharMemberIn a previous gilgul, I bumped into popa bar abba at the mikveh in Pumpeditha one erev yom kippur. He made a great joke in Syriac which is hard to translate.
JotharMemberMoshiach is a king, an earthly avatar of Hashem’s reign.
How did Derech go from wondering about becoming frum to wondering if Lubavitch is no longer frum, in 5 minutes?
JotharMemberIs Derech joseph or pba?
JotharMemberWhat has become apparent from this thread is that people ARE buying Avi Weiss’ nonsense and he does have power. So the RCA dilemma comes back- disassociate themselves from Avi Weiss or disassociate themselves from Orthodoxy?
JotharMemberLubavitch have reservations sometimes. Other times they walk in and hope there are open tables.
October 16, 2011 6:10 am at 6:10 am in reply to: Are you required to Pay employees for Chol Hamoed? #817732JotharMemberDr. Seuss, it is clear that the poster has chosen to work for a frum company instead of a non-Jewish one. I made an assumption that he prefers working in a frum environment.
October 16, 2011 4:32 am at 4:32 am in reply to: Are you required to Pay employees for Chol Hamoed? #817730JotharMemberone benefit w2’s are clearly entitled to is to not be double-taxed like 1099’s. Traditionally, w2’s do get benefits.
I heard that the B&H office is closed on chol hamoed but they give 15 days of vacation and you can use it as you please. Other frum companies have other policies. My recommendation is to find another frum employer who is a bit nicer about these things.
JotharMembermoshemes, I can very well think that he is arguing on the Rambam- it’s black-and-white, as well as the tur and shulchan aruch in choshen mishpat. They all say “no”. I am not a lawyer, but the “no really meant yes” defense never works in secular court either.
Sam2,
1. No such R’ soloveitchik and 2. no such “daas yachid”, unless you mean daas Echad Yachid Umeyuchad.
JotharMemberI thought Popa bar abba was just another screen name of joseph.
October 16, 2011 3:29 am at 3:29 am in reply to: Are you required to Pay employees for Chol Hamoed? #817728JotharMemberzahavasdad, I used to be in the same boat. That’s what being an hourly 1099 employee means. however, if the employees work a certain amount of hours, the boss is not allowed to have the employees be 1099’s. He is legally forced to make them w2’s and give benefits.
JotharMemberThe Maharat website says “spiritual leaders”,”rabbinic staff”. What about that does NOT mean serarah? It’s a straight-up violation of the Rambam.
JotharMemberThe relevant poskim re: female being ignored by Avi Weiss are, besides the ones who signed on the kol korei: The Sifri, the Yerushalmi, the Rambam in hilchos melachim 1:5, tur choshen mishpat perek 7, shulchan aruch choshen mishpat perek 7 (either :5 or :6), and all the nosei keilim mentioned on all these sources, along with thousands of years of mesorah. Even Saul Leiberman is against him:
“
The end of the matter is that it is clear from the sources that being called by the title “rav” (“Rabbi he shall be called”) reflects on the fitness to issue legal decisions and to judge, and we should not empty the title “rav” of its meaning from the way it has been understood by the Jewish people throughout the generations. Since a woman is not fit to judge, and she cannot become qualified for this, she cannot be ordained by this title (even if we see it as a mere expression, refer to the Tosafot, Avodah Zarah 5a, paragraph heading “Ella”).
Let us not make ourselves objects of derision and jest.
Respectfully,
Saul Lieberman”
JotharMemberToi, they’re not worried about educated Jews. They’re worried about uneducated Jews.Furthermore, there is the matter of being part of a group granting legitimacy to a non-orthodox rabbi.
JotharMemberThe other issue I have with the RCA piece quoted by feif un is that Avi Weiss keeps telling the media he’s ordaining women as rabbis. His own website says as much as well:
Women as part of “rabbinic staff”, serving as spiritual leaders. In other words, women serving as rabbis. Avi Weiss is fairly explicit about what he’s doing, even post- “retraction”. Hoda’as baal din keme’ah eidim. Someone is getting duped, and it’s NOT Rabbi Adlerstein or the media.
JotharMemberRCA Statement In Regards To Rabbi Avi Weiss & His ‘Rabbah’ [& His Response To RCA]
All avi weiss did was change the title from rabbah to maharat and the RCA said “ok”. Yet all the articles Avi Weiss puts out makes it clear this is nothing but semantics. Let those who want to be fooled be fooled. The RCA rabbis aren’t buying this cow pie.
JotharMemberStandard bee traps work quite well, although with the bee shortage I keep reading about, maybe killing them is not a good idea.
JotharMemberShorter version of this thread- the laymen are fooled, the RCA rabbis are not- and that’s why they want the RCA to make a strong stance.
JotharMemberThe only reason the RCA backed down is because Avi Weiss changed the title from “Rabbah” to “Maharat”, a semantic change but not a substantial one. I assume most RCA members weren’t fooled, which is why they have this undercurrent of rebellion.
JotharMemberHere’s the statement by the Moetzes a year and a half ago:
These developments represent a radical and dangerous departure from Jewish tradition and the mesoras haTorah, and must be condemned in the strongest terms. Any congregation with a woman in a rabbinical position of any sort cannot be considered Orthodox.
Rabbi Simcha Bunim Ehrenfeld
Rabbi Yitzchok Feigelstock
Rabbi Dovid Feinstein
Rabbi Aharon Feldman
Rabbi Yosef Harari-Raful
Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky
Rabbi Aryeh Malkiel Kotler
Rabbi Avrohom Chaim Levin
Rabbi Yaakov Perlow
Rabbi Aaron Schechter
JotharMemberMoshemees, it has NOTHING to do with motives. It has to do with a drasha of “al pi shnayim eidim”. If you can’t be an eid you can’t be a dayan. It’s befeirush- nothing to do with kavanos. He is explicitly arguing on everyone in shulchan aruch.
JotharMemberMosheemes2, shulchan paskens at the beginning of choshe nmishpat that we don’t ordain women or have them acting in positions of authority. All of the nosei keilim agree. So right away, he is arguing on the mechaber, Ram”a, Sma, shach, Ketzos, Nesivos, Reb Moshe ZT”L, et al.
JotharMemberZahavasdad, he didn’t get kicked out because Rabbi Marc Angel is very powerful figure within the RCA and a fellow traveler.
The resolution was watered down so nothing has changed. He did NOT back down. He still ordains women and calls them “rabbah”, but publicly they’re called “maharat”. What’s the difference? Same ordination, different name.
JotharMemberZahavasdad, Rabbi Adlerstein and his fellow rabbis have noticed a strong sympathy for Avi Weiss. He’s in LA, so maybe things are different around New York. but out of town, they are a genuine threat, and enough of a threat to split the RCA over his continued membership.
JotharMemberFurthermore, no frum person belongs to the same organization as NK- if they did, they would resign immediately out of disgust. And that is what Rabbi Adlerstein is saying- we RCA rabbis refuse to be part of the same organization as the mumar Weiss. They are asking that he be kicked out of the RCA.
The other point Rabbi Adlerstein made is that the really ignorant masses, who 2,000 fell for Jesus and his nonsense, are falling for Avi Weiss because of the apparent imprimatur of the Orthodox community. They may not be a danger to Feif Un, but they are a danger to the really ignorant folks out there.
JotharMemberShaychis is that a store that is open on shabbos is 1. harder to police from a kashrus point of view, as stuff can happen without the mashgiach knowing about it. also, pizza on motzei shabbos may be forbidden until a certain point in time after shabbos. The dunkin donuts in Far rockaway has a sign explicitly stating this.
JotharMemberCan the mashgiach walk over on shabbos?
JotharMemberPY,I understand. first we start with a flawed premise of the heterodox (that our understanding of chessed is BETTER than Hashem’s understanding), and we just rewrite the Torah wholesale to fit our understanding. I guess akeidas yitzchok is just written out of the torah, as it’s cruel to ask someone to kill his only child, but what do you lain on rosh hashana? This is the same approach that Conservative and Reform took, and may be “valid” for other streams who view the Torah as not being divine and perfect in origin, but is not an approach to be endorsed by the RCA. So you just confirmed Rabbi Adlerstein’s premise- Avi Weiss is nonorthodox and shouldn’t be a part of the Orthodox RCA.
JotharMemberItche, the difference between a mashgiach who’s an am ha’aretz and a rav hamachshir who’s an am ha’aretz is the difference between a running back with an 85 IQ and a head coach with an 85 IQ.
JotharMemberIf MO people never posted here, Joseph would be pretty lonely.
JotharMemberItche, when the rav hamachshir has a clue, the am ha’aretz in the kitchen checking lettuce asks his shailos to the rav hamachshir, who accurately paskens the shaila.
When the rav hamachshir is also an am ha’aretz, the question isn’t asked. If it is, the answer becomes “Well, I’m a rabbi and I don’t know, so safek derabanan lekula”.
JotharMemberFeif Un, the article was written by an RCA member who teaches in law school, not some reporter for Der Tzeitung. Did you read the actual article? He says, as an active RCA member who knows what’s going on, and is actively involved in the MO community, that it IS a big deal, and that Avi Weiss’ continued membership in the RCA and the RCA’s refusal to come out with anything stronger than a tepid proclamation is ruining both MO and the RCA. What does he know that you don’t?
BTW he has a blog ( called Cross-Currents) where you can question his views directly and receive a response.
From his comment there:
“While I take responsibility for the writing, the article emerged from a group effort of a number of rabbonim, all RCA members,
- none
of whom are charedim.”
{sticky content}
JotharMemberRabbi Adlerstein is implying that many rabbis are growing uncomfortable with their RCA memberships They view it as a stamp of approval, not a nonjudgmental social club. The Rav zt”l was very clear about belonging in a group with non-Orthodox rabbis. Many of them are wondering if the RCA has become such a group.
JotharMemberItchesrulik, the point is: If you were associated with a movement that crossed halachic lines, when does it become something to make a protest about? When do you say “enough is enough”? When does the newt jump out of the pot?
I know of a family who switched from a conservative shul to an Orthodox one once the Conservative shul ordained female rabbis. they are Orthodox today. When does an MO say “This is not yiddishkeit”? When does it go from a hashkafic difference to a red-line “This is not my yiddishkeit” difference? Or does MO mean “it’s all good,like Outback Steakhouse- no rules- just right”?
JotharMemberI was looking for a comment from one of the real MO members of the coffee room. Do they agree with his assessment? is YCT that big of an influence on the direction of MO? And would they want a splinter rabbinical group? Are there any red lines that can’t be crossed or they leave their MO shul?
Many shuls have bylaws that the rabbi must be a member of the RCA. They would have to be amended.
JotharMemberIt’s also available on cross-currents, on his own blog.
In a nutshell (my own words, feel free to add nuances I missed):
1. YCT and the “far-left” crowd are de-legitimizing the RCA and MO.
2. the RCA needs to put its foot down or risk having its connection to regular Orthodoxy disappear as it becomes viewed as supporters of YCT and its innovations of ignorance.
There is a lot going on between the lines.
I’m getting vibes from the article that Rav Adlerstein and many other “right-wing YU”-type RCA rabbis (btw I am aware that Rav Adlerstein didn’t go to YU) want to make a splinter organization if the RCA doesn’t take a stand on its Orthodoxy.
{ka-ching}
JotharMemberGoogle searches claim it somehow means princess, version of sarah, or a diminutive of zier meaning “jewel”. but when I typed Tzirel into google translate in yiddish, it turned it into “goat”.
So it can mean princess, jewel, or goat.
JotharMemberSteve Jobs changed the world, and changed the way people “consume content”. He left the world a more entertained place. But did he leave the world a better place? Hard to say “yes”.
Bill Gates is giving his billions to charities which he thinks can improve the world. Whether you or I agree with the choices is irrelevant. He is TRYING to improve it, not just make money off it.
{ Does this have good click-thoughs?}
JotharMemberNo. I do NOT accept it. I have never clicked anything saying I accept it.
{didn’t accept the new tos}
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