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The OP of this thread wants a certain degree of separateness from the non Jewish American culture.
This is a valid desire.
Most effective way to achieve this is to move to Israel.
“That is sad commentary on a frum olem.”
If his desire is put down the majority of the Torah community for not being “holy” enough, that is another story.
There is a more rationalistic understanding of “V’Talmud Torah K”Neged Kulam”.
It means that without knowing the Torah one cannot fulfill it.
It does not mean that one can exempt himself from all his normal obligations by studying Torah.
Those who learn in Kollel only do so while their wives are Mochel the Kesubah obligation that the husband has to support his wife.
There appears to be those who define modest dress as a requirement to exhibit piety.
“to bathing attire, or none at all?”
I never advocated nakedness. A Religious Zionist woman in Israel with the long skirt is fully dressed as a Bas Yisroel.
3 generations ago a man wearing a hat meant that he was a solid bread earner and not a bum.
” implied disdain for Kollel/Chinuch life”
Klei Kodesh have to dress in a manner to enhance respect for their professional roles in the community.
Having every Bar Mitzvah boy dress as Klei Kodesh undermines respect for real Klei Kodesh.
If I wanted to undermine respect for the medical profession, I would dress up teenage boys as Doctors with white coats.
“If we want our daughters to be treated like bnos melachim, we need to teach our sons how to behave to a wife.”
Being able to support a family in an honorable manner is an important part of that.
“denim is know to be a material worn by the working class doing menial work. As b’nei melochim, we try to rise above that.”
How “royalty” dress vary from generation to generation.
Pick two of the most successful business men of the present and see how they dress. (Hint: AAPL or GOOG)
How those who are forced to do menial work dress also varies from generation to generation.
Bottom line: In 2012 denim is not a hallmark of the “lower classes”.
If we want our daughters to be treated like B’nos Melochim, we better make sure our sons have the skills to get good jobs at the most successful companies.
This has nothing to do with tznius, but with which community you want to associate with.
These long denim skirts are the hallmark of serious Religious Zionists in Israel.
I do want to be associated with such a community.
Chassidus used to be an approach that opened up Avodas Hashem to the non elite. But in my lifetime it has turned around 180 degrees. On the other hand, the US Marine Corps have always been an elite group and proud of it.
The Fast Days will be easier, but the other days harder.
“Like akuperma said. Chasidim are Jewry’s Marine Corps.”
I always knew I could never make it in the Marines.
We have to have a clear path for those children of Chasidim who cannot make it in the Marines, but could serve Hashem as fully observant Jews in other ways.
yekke2: You are writing off the vast majority of Jews. But the big Chutzpah is after writing them off to ask them for money!!!
If the shul does not get its financial act together a Bankruptcy Judge (not the YWN coffee room) will decide who gets to buy the Sefer Torah!!!
Loyal Jew, who issued this formal declaration of war?
WIY and Loyal Jew, you both express a Right Wing exclusivity that would result in only one Minyan being fit to receive the Moshiach – Chas V’Shalom.
Succos comes to mind with the Ohel issue, especially if the area under the hat is big enough for a Succah!!!
We are not talking about 7 by 7 tefachim, but 4 by 4 amos according to Rabbi Yehudah of the Mishnah.
Some hats have rims wide enough that aircraft can land on them!!!
Most of us do not spend most of our time davening and need to be reasonably comfortable as we pursue what we hope will be solid accomplishments.
But you are right: Those who cannot maintain a dignified appearance at all times must never represent themselves as full time Torah learners. From early on I knew I could never maintain a dignified appearance at all times. I went into a profession where being sharply dressed is not important.
For the short time each day that we daven, all of us must maintain dress standards that vary from community to community.
From a Dirshu insert in a Jewish magazine: Once Moshiach convinces us that he knows Shas, no one will worry what type of hat he wears.
Certainly they will not worry how he wears it. So wear the hat you choose the way you feel most comfortable. Your head will appreciate that and will retain knowledge best.
If you are mekarev serveral families, you can create financial support for more Kollel seats. Based upon the Bamidbar censuses about 40 Yisraelim suported one Kollel seat for a Levi.
The big question is whether the guy is in Kollel because he had the learning capabilities and his heart lifted him to this intense service of Hashem. Or is he in Kollel to fulfill his family and community’s expectations.
You should also ask this question of any professional you rely upon, such as your Doctor.
No profession can survive an influx of ill suited or ill motivated candidates.
The B.O.Y. seminary is located in a part of the world that is immune to hurricanes.
There is at least one Obama who is actually Jewish.
Zeeskeit, you have selective memory.
You seem to remember all the fire brimstone, but not the Gemara that a court that executes once in 70 years is considered “bloody”.
There is an argument whether there ever was an actual “condemned city”. The Torah is promising us that in the rare (if ever) case of an Ir Hanedachas (condemned city), that the acts of execution will not undermine our natural sense of mercy.
Water,even when clean does have some conductive ability. The dirtier the water the better it can conduct electricity.
Floodwaters can be quite dirty, even if not visibly so.
Also, downed lines can be carrying thousands of volts, much more than what is needed to shock you.
Most people who voted for Obama voted for their own financial and health security. Obama promised to protect the first $250K from increased income taxes. People are worried about medical bills bankrupting them. The safety net for the elderly and disabled is critical.
I actually belived that Romney would also leave these protections in place, but he failed to convince enough people of this. He made good progress in this matter during the debates, but not enough.
“he closed his sefer and said that after you learn English, you can come back and learn here”
Such statements will not make it into Artscroll.
Unfortunately many Bar Mitzvah boys are expected to wear the Crown of Piety and Fear of Sin.
Some of them rebel.
We have a French Cafe (not Jewish) inside the “Eruv” which has several tables outside. Sunday evening they were empty. We ate inside. Monday after davening I walked by and several people were eating outside. Hence, the day Seudah was in the Sukkah.
Back to the French Cafe: My best guess is that the Eastern Europe branch moves all the tables inside by mid September. The outside tables would always be busy in Bavel, unless it was actually raining.
We have a French Cafe (not Jewish) inside the “Eruv” which has several tables outside. Sunday evening they were empty. We ate inside. Monday after davening I walked by and several people were eating outside. Hence, the day Seudah was in the Sukkah.
Back to the French Cafe: My best guess is that the Eastern Europe branch moves all the tables inside by mid September. The outside tables would always be busy in Bavel, unless it was actually raining.
I had come up with 6 reasons why those in the Charedei camp need to study secular studies. (Kosher Money, survival skills, being a good citizen, presenting a proper image to the outside world similar to being properly dressed, needed knowledge to understand areas of Torah such as Elu Teraifos, and to appreciate the world G-d created)
WIY, thanks to your insight I now have seventh reason – to avoid Torah thoughts in the bathroom.
The context of Rav Shteinman’s statement is important. France is trying to impose a detailed curriculum on private schools. He was not speaking to some 7th grader in the Lakewood Cheder trying to wiggle out of his math studies.
Most developed nations are paying towards this 8 Billion. Hence, the per person burden is low.
For those who do not want to believe in G-d every new discovery strengthens their non belief.
For those who believe in G-d every new discovery strengthens their belief in G-d and their appreciation of the world G-d created.
Mystical terms should not be bandied around like footballs.
The writings of the Satmar Rav were written to be read by Torah Scholars. I doubt that he would have given permission for these writings to be translated into English.
Even Tanach verses that mention such concepts, should not be among the first passages one learns.
This is a problem that must be worked out with the men first. Only after men who consider themselves Shomer Torah U’Mitzvos fully accept both in principal and in action the responsibility of supporting their families; should this issue be broached with the women.
Exceptions will need to be made for some men to learn full time and be supported by the community in learning; but those wanting such status will need to first demonstrate a level of hasmodah (diligence) and achievement and get specific permission to learn full time. In the best case, those learning full time will be supported enough that their wives will be able to raise their children directly.
However, Anti-Zionism as new religion appears to be in full bloom in this CR.
I saw their site. Anyone can select verses from the Bible to prove any thing about the Messianic process.
The erstwhile Joseph did not write propoganda for Iran.
I was trying to show how dangerous that newspaper was.
The same paper in the early 1920s hired one representative of the Old Yishuv to bad mouth the new Yishuv and lead to curtailment of immigration.
Of couse HaKatan believes every thing that rag published. Hitler was out to exterminate Jews Zionist and non Zionist and Anti-Zionist alike. No one escaped the Death Machine by waving their Anti-Zionist credentials.
“What are you -the spokesman for the Zionist regime?”
I speak this way because I feel I am one of them. And an attack on Israel is an an attack on all Jews.
You talk as if you are part of the Iran regime and help put forth their Blood Libel against us.
These wretched flotillas consist of the biggest Jew haters on this planet. They want the middle east to be Judenrein (G-d forbid) and are willing to die in that cause.
National Teshuva was done in 1948 and we reject no Jew fleeing oppression since then.
HaKatan, your knowledge of history is lacking.
One advocate for the Old Yishuv became a reporter for the Daily Express in the early 20’s….
Google the rest.
Then Google daily express 1933.
“Again for the umpteenth time -I’m not Satmar!”
Correct: Satmar does not believe in handing millions of Jews over to a non Jewish regime (which sends those lovely boats of freedom fighters at us).
HaKatan, what about some of the bad mouthing some of the Old Yishuv did to the British about the new yishuv (in the 1920’s) to discourage immigration.
WHEN A FELLOW JEW IS FLEEING OPPRESSION AND ARRIVES AT THE GATES OF HOLY ERETZ YISROEL YOU DO NOT WORRY ABOUT HIS LACK OF OBSERVANCE CONTAMINATING THE LAND!!!
My experience is that generally those who show respect for Israel show respect for America and visa versa.
Most charedim show respect for both.
Those who lack appreciation for one generally lack appreciation for the other.
There are exceptions, but they are few.
While singing the National Anthem or G-D Bless America shows appreciation, there are other ways to do so.
Judging all Zionists by some words one person said is harsh.
But harsh judgement is what you get from the extreme Anti-Zionists.
mogold has decided that the majority of Torah Gedolim sold out their principles for money. wow!!!
The bottom line is that Torah Judaism survived by working with the powers that be, whether Bavel, whether King Yanni, whether Hordus and whether Rome…
vochindik, you seem to position the State of Israel as somewhere between the Romans who destroyed the second Temple and Nazi Germany.
Hatzolah Purtah, is the term used to describe Rabbi Yochanan Ben Zakkai’s agreement with Vespasian at the time of the destruction of the second Temple.
Incredibly, there are those in the hard Anti-Zionist camp who argue that deals should have been struck with Nazi Germany itself, and such deals would have saved Hungarian Jewry.
But with the State of Israel no deals can be struck…
“is borderline apikorsus”
vochindik, I can not stand when those with little Torah knowledge pass judgement on Talmedei Chachamim (Torah scholars). In this case you are deciding on a Musmach (someone who got smicha) of Ner Israel.
Based upon your posts in other threads you are strong in the knowledge of Right Wing talking points, but weak in Talmud knowledge.
“jsh31- can you explain what you mean? what has changed?”
Unfortunately the passage of time weakens the impact of a Nes (miracle) by many. Extremism both on the left and the right is driven by a lack in the Mida (personal character trait) of HaKaras HaTov (appreciation of the good). It starts with denying the good than people have done (such as the Medina and IAF pilots in the 6 day war) and progresses to denial of the good that G-d has done. The denial deepens and can become outright Kefira.
Health, you have gone far beyond the Satmar shitta and have crossed more than one line thereby exiting our Machana and joining the Machana of Gog U’Magog. Goodbye.
RABBAIM, Hashem thru His Torah warn repeatedly against cutting the bond between generations. Many sins that damage the bonds between generations are raised to the status of misos beis din.
“SJS asked how far away from the yeshiva is considered another town. That is a fair question. In my humble opinion, if one shops in the major shopping areas in and around the town, then her home is considered to be a part of that town.”
This would imbue the whole southern New Jersey with the restrictions of LKWD.
The Second Temple did not imbue the whole of Judea with the status of Jerusalem.
LKWD
Is the city so holy that we are not allowed to spell it out fully?
Right after the 6 day war, virtually all Jews saw it as the Hand of G-d. Since then the dark clouds of Kefirah have emerged, some from the Left, but plenty from the Right as we can see here in this coffee room.
It could be day zero: offer Korbon Pesach
Night one: eat it along with Matza, Marror and Chagiga
days 1-7 (except Shabbos) other personal offerings
Night two: chol Hamoed
night 7: one last day of full yom tov
day 8: back to work