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Based on timing and assumption that posters are Shomer Shabbos, notpashut is in Israel and jewishfeminist02 in either Europe or Israel. I am in middle of US.
The one area of halacha that carries the heaviest long tern responsibility is writing Gitten (Jewish bill of divorce).
Requiring every one going into business to have expertise in Choshen Mishpat (Yadin Yadin) is impractical.
The YWN blogs are getting a wide reputation of having hard kanoim (zealots). This topic brings out the real hardliners.
As a matter of fact, religious zealotry is ascendant worldwide and we are not immune to this trend.
Chasidic customs that for generations were implemented in a very civilized way are now getting into the wrong hands.
And I do notice a pattern that many of the most zealous in the area of Tznius are very Meikel (lenient) in areas of Choshen Mishpat (interpersonal relationships).
If you avoid TV you can still make a living and function in this world. In fact you may function even better.
If you avoid the internet you will be closing off most legitimate avenues of earning a living. Also, for many products you now have to use the internet to get the best prices.
If you work without knowing all the relavent laws, there is a risk that some of your income flow will Gezel (theft). If you don’t work then all your income flow could be Gezel. The right professional training will allow you to choose work that minimizes potential pitfalls in many areas of Jewish law.
Lets get back to the orginal question from Mrs. Beautiful:
“Is it appropriate for women to drive? My husband claims not, but I dont see a difference if the woman is in the driver’s seat or the front passenger seat…”
Some customs are clearly incompatible with each other. Women not driving and men in Kollel is impossible, unless they have a huge trust fund.
Communities in which women do not drive are those in which they never started driving and men are expected to provide the total family income and run all errands needing a car.
Nothing will push people away from keeping Torah and Mitzvos more than pushing impossible ideals.
Chassidic customs were intended to draw people towards Judaism, not create impractical barriers to living.
A woman who actually drives will feel “jailed” if she is suddenly told that she can no longer drive.
If the hardliners are triumphant and impose a full raft of impractical Chumros (stringencies), we will have a breakaway from Judaism (G-d forbid) worse than the Haskalah triggered breakaway 150 years ago in Europe.
Bogen,
There are four sections to Shulchan Aruch. Have you studied all 4?
I have not studied all 4 either. There is also the “fifth section of Shulchan Aruch” called “being civilized” or “common sense”. And you do not suddenly yank the car keys from your new Kallah (bride)!!!
This is not a strictly “Modern Orthodox” concept.
“The Big One”, what you say about customs is generally true, but so is the requirement to disclose them before getting married, especially high impact customs.
Fast is over, where is the coffee?
At this hour I will take a decaf with extra creme and sugar.
Biggest problem with this coffee room is there is no coffee!!!
Joseph, it is common sense that he is obligated to inform her before marriage of any Minhag that will have a major impact on her. Giving up the mobility of driving is way up there in terms of impact. This is much more than not eating Gebrokz (foods cooked with Matzoh meal) 7 days a year!!!
If a guy has such a Minhag, he should disclose it to the Shadchan (matchmaker) before the first date. If you are married and your husband newly informs you of such a Minhag, you may have the right to demand a Get (divorce) and full payment of the Kesubah.
Joseph, There may be holiness – Kedusha in every Minhag (community custom). But they become like “vows” Nedarim, except on a community instead of on an individual level. Chazal (Torah leadership 1500 to 2000 years ago) warned making vows except in the most extraordinary circumstances. Minhagim can create divisions between communities, just as vows create divisions between individuals.
Finding out that your spouse has wrapped himself or herself in vows of prohibition can be grounds for divorce if the spouse is unwilling to go to a Jewish court to get the vows released (“permitted”).
The husband has the power to nullify vows of the wife on the day hears about them if they involve personal suffering or affect their relationship. If he fails to do so, and the vow affects their relationship or cause suffering he will be held at fault for failing to nullify.
My understanding is that Misnagdim (non Chassidim) generally ignore the date. On the other extreme some say that since we do not know for sure which day he was born, every night has to be treated as a possible Nittel. That is the Minhag in the casinos!!!!!
The term “modern” orthodox can mean many different things to different people. To me it means you can not go back in time. The State of Israel is a reality. Most of us will have to earn a living in the modern marketplace.
We can not jump forward in time either. We have to live in this world and keep the Torah in this world. We were revealed a Torah for how we are to behave in this world. We were not revealed details of other worlds. We know that there is reward and punishment and eternity, but the details of the World to Come are a divine secret into which we are not allowed to probe.
Cell phones are here to stay (barring a nuclear war chas v’sholom). For the younger generation, they have become the primary means of social communication. Taking away someone’s phone is like putting them in social excommunication. The primary reason a Metzorah (Leviticus 13) who is banished from all 3 “camps” (Leviticus 13:46) is considered like a dead person (see Numbers 12:12) is because of the social isolation.
As with the power of speech, there are many pitfalls with the cell phone. We much educate our children both on the proper use of speech and proper use of cell phones.
There are also the financial pitfalls associated with cell phones discussed much earlier in this thread, that our children must be made aware of.
I see much more boldness and innovation from the right wing Charedi leaders than from the Modern Orthodox leaders. Major Hashkafek (philosophical) issues that were unresolved in the time of the Rishonim (500-1000 years ago) are suddenly resolved and crystallized. The obligation of a father to teach his son a trade has been suspended in some right wing Charedi circles. Bold speculation in the area of theodicy (how G-d judges man) is more likely to come from the right wing.
On the other hand a Modern Orthodox Rabbi is more likely to wear what many have concluded is Techelet in their Tsisit.
In the past the focus of education of our daughters was in the area of Kashrus and Shabbos, but not in the laws of “damages” and theft. That was the emphasis of the education of boys. We live in a different world now where Jewish mothers no longer kosher their own chickens, but they drive cars and have cell phones. Education will need to be updated accordingly.
For one aware of the laws of “damages” and theft; lending out a cell phone is much more problematic than lending out a Siddur.
bored@work: For specific details you need to ask your Rov. I am not a Rov so I can only raise questions, not give answers.
But, I would not lend my own phone out, even for a good cause where I could not verify that no high cost services nor international calling was being accessed.
It is apparent that when I was growing up that my teachers were significantly stricter in issues having to do with potential Gezel (theft). Also, everyone was much more careful with their own money. Hopefully the recent economic events and the Madoff scandal will be a wake up call for us all.
A full 1984 Big Brother society will end up costing millions of lives. Red light camera programs often focus on revenue opportunity to the manufacturers and local government, not on improving safety.
Lending out items that are not fully yours and where significant expenses can be incurred that the owner will have to pay for is very problematic. What if those phones were going to be used for international calls? Having a friend make a local call in front of you may be less of a problem. Ask the owners of the phone account first. I do not have smicha in Choshen Mishpat (nor in Yoreh Deah for that matter).
To bored@work: Lending out a phone on which you are not paying the bill yourself could be prohibited because of Gezel (theft).
Even for those going into learning on the track to become future Torah leaders, having at least the standard level of math and language skills is essential. Chazal (Torah leaders of about 1500 – 2000 years ago) speak severely about a Talmid Chacham (Torah scholar) whose manner of dress is substandard. Illiteracy is the modern equivalent of substandard dress. Having Torah scholars lacking a High School education will bring down the level of honor for Torah and its scholars.
I never said that a large percentage was in the Coffee Room. However, boys with good minds but not the Sitz Fleish to sit and learn are being advised to “stay in learning” anyways. That was my personal experience 35 years ago, and since them the pressure to “stay in learning” has only increased.
How did we get from dogs to the Lakewood Internet Ban?
About dogs, I personally don’t care for them.
But apparently the Torah presupposes dogs being around in a Torah society to have a way of disposing slaughtered animals that fail the inspection for “Tarfus”.
I believe the sheep business needs them.
Now I get it: If you want to avoid the internet in your daily business (and do not have a rich father in law to support you in Kollel), then you become a shepherd and get a dog!!!
We got to start with the BMG Coffee Room Chevra. They all need to be advised to get jobs or specific training for jobs. Emptying the BMG Coffee Room will energize the actual learners and spread the expense of Kollels among more earners.
BMG Coffee Room is a metaphor for those who do not have the Sitz Fleish to learn full time, even if they are smart enough to get in the most prestigious Yeshivas.
Next we need more positive attitude towards Limudei Chol. Several advantages will flow. The prestige of Talmidei Chachamim with secular knowledge is greater, just like those who dress properly. Almost every area of Torah knowledge needs some other supporting knowledge. Understanding Gemara Chulin needs knowledge of bovine anatomy.
Some communities have been raised to such a high status of “IR HaKodesh” or “IR HaTorah” that any mundane activity is looked down upon. Yeshiva Bochurim in such communities are on such a high pedestal that eating or sleeping or exercising or pursuing any form of recreation is considered improper.
The Torah was not given to the ministering angels. If we are going to decide that certain forms of recreation are inappropriate then kosher forms have to be provided, even for the “best bochurim”.
“internal revenue agent”. We’ve put a large vat of tar on the fire, and several pillows will need to be canabalized for the cause.
Chicken or goose???
At our shul here in Dallas it is 5 hours in all starting at 8. Any longer (unless you have a good Kiddush break) leads to stress in many people. Stress leads to anger. Anger leads to many sins.
Gemar Tov to Y’all!!!
Rosha Ba Le’Ir!!!
Apparently the one who presence smears the names of all upstanding Jews whose first names are Yisroel or Dovid or whose last names are Weiss was here in Dallas. He was here to speak at some Mosques. We can imagine what!!!
I have his “business” card in front of me.
It has “Jews United Against Zionism” in both English and Arabic, the language of his customers.
It is for those like him, that our Shemoneh Esreh is actually 19 blessings, and I have him specifically in mind when I come to that blessing!!!
PETA justifies and praises criminal and dangerous activity (vandalism and arson):
From their web site:
The law in this country is that if you are involved in a car accident regardless of fault, you must provide or summon aid. If you willfully fail, you can be prosecuted.
I believe this is the law in all or virtually all states, and was in effect in 1969.
Unfortunately, some act as if this Mitzvah only begins when the parent passes away.
Umfortunately social customs that later prove to be very harmful take a very long time to die out. Even within Judaism we may have certain practices that may have been instituted for health reasons based upon the best knowledge at that time, but with more recent knowledge those practices may now be known to be actually harmful. Our leaders must be able to respond to this recent knowledge and advise accordingly.
But, for sure the fact that Rabbi so and so from 100 years ago smoked is no excuse for anyone to take up or continue smoking.
“All i want to do is put Olam Haba on the map”
Sorry, it is not on any map and that is G-d’s plan to keep it secret even from the ministering angels. If a human king had a secret place and I would draw maps speculating where it is, I would not be considered to be most respectful of the human king. Of course we believe in reward and punishment and eternity beyond this world, but too much speculation in that area is not proper.
“I think the writer’s points are excellent, though he is obviously not talking to everyone. If you know you are going to be in chinuch, and you won’t need a degree of any sort AND your rebbi tells you to sit and learn all day, that’s one thing.”
Wrong. Those going into chinuch needs the degrees even more, so that the schools they teach in will pay them decently. Get both a Smicha (Yoreh Yoreh or better) and a Masters if you want a serious Avodas Kodesh career. I have seen a school’s salary schedule and credentials play a big part in setting salary.
Every Yeshiva bachur needs to read this. For those who plan to go into Meleches Kodesh (holy service to the community, most typically teaching)this imperitive is even stronger. Day school principles count formal education very heavily in setting salaries. The only ones who can afford to ignore this message are those who have Trust Funds large enough to live off the rest of their lives and fully meet their obligations to their future families. If in the time of the Gemara a warning was given against doing like Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai (many did and were not successful), certainly in our days no one should assert themselves to be able to ignore the need for Hishtadlus (effort).