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Jothar, which government programs were permitted and which forbidden?
How big a Kolel was involved?
Rabosai, Kavod HaMalchus!!!
The law is the law, you are correct.
However, those who are most affected should have the strongest voice.
For example, in matters of security in Israel,those who actually live there should “call the shots”.
When such issues come up, I say that this is a matter for those in Israel to decide.
“the answer was yes, except for the bizyonos like welfare”
These types of questions usually require highly individualistic answers.
For example, a Rov may guide a specific couple to use birth control for a limited time; and then what hits the “street” is that Rov so and so permits birth control.
Last night the boy holding the Havadalh candle in Shul tried to hold it as high as possible. He was directed to lower it.
I remember a Gemara warning against taking tzedakah in such situations from non Jews.
The question needs to be asked. I do agree that real gezel is worse.
Once some mekubal came to me and asked me for a donation for his kabbalah yeshiva. I told him, “I gave in a previous gilgul”. He responded, “No you didn’t, you were just as skeptical then”.
MM, when “learning” Torah is done for the specific purpose of escaping the obligation of supporting your family then it is not considered to be “learning Torah”.
All those who learn in Kollel only do so during the “permission of their wives”.
At any time the wife can say, “I am no longer Mochel the obligations of the Kesubah, get a job.”
Even if not in public view, it may be problematic.
With the practice so widespread, it effectively becomes in public view.
If it was not already in public view then starting this thread would have been assur.
By winning Game 6, they prevented more hours of Bittul Torah than one individual can learn in a lifetime!!!
If you take the $1.5B stadium plus all the Yankee salaries since the last World Series win, you have about $3B investment.
$3B does indeed buy you a World Series!!!
AR’s salary alone can sustain 250 Kollel families BeKavod (with honor)!!!
Bear position on Israel (or EY) is far to the right of that of Agudah and even of Satmar and dangerously close to the Nut Kases that visited Yimach Shemo.
Perhaps we are obligated to tear Kri-ah when we hear such denigration of the Jewish Yishuv???
“it’s perfectly permissible for a guy in learning to take tzedakah”
From who??? Perhaps only from Jewish sources.
Will they say Hallel tomorrow in NY instead of Ta-chanun???
With a Beracha or without???
About 10 years ago Prime Minister Netanyahu broke away from socialist model and made Israel nuch more business friendly. Hi tech in Israel took off from then on.
Yesterday, I talked about relocating the Kever of the Bresslover Rebbe to Israel, and I suddenly had a Bear on my tail. This led to businesses in Israel.
MM, another point in the case that Kollel is for the select few, not a “default” path for our sons.
A recent news item I believe may have relevance to this thread:
“HaRav Eliashiv Signs Ban Against Fellowship of Christians and Jews”
Other leaders are on this ban.
3 separate reasons are given for the ban. Two are specific to religiously affiliated organizations. The third is “the prohibition against accepting charity from a non-Jew in public view”.
We have to force them to shape up or ship out.
It is called immigration reform which was endorsed by the past president and present president and most of the cadidates that ran against them.
Shape up means getting a Tax Identification Number and paying income taxes and showing responsibility for all cars they drive (liability insurance).
“They all want, not future Gedoilim and Roshei Yeshiva, but current ones,
with them already assuming the position of Rebbetzin/Balas Mussar to their
husbands, dreying them a kop if they are running a little late for shacaris,
or if they step out to bring in the mail without their hat & jacket”
They are expecting from their husbands what has been expected of them.
In many girls’ schools perfection is the minimum standard.
In the Yated Neeman stories how girls are rejected in Shiduchin because of percieved imperfections (“lack of sensitivity in the area of …”) re-inforce this minimum standard of perfection.
“the really big ones have to move out of there to grow to world beater size”
Nowadays all large firms, especially hi tech have to have operations in several countries. Israel is considered an important country to have operations there by the leading hi tech firms such as IBM, HP, TI and Intel.
EDITED
Bear downplays any economic achievement in Israel.
I work in Hi Tech and nobody shares this view.
Almost every business magazine article about Israel is positive.
Even Israel’s enemies recognize these achievements.
The 10 Meraglim had more good to say about Israel than Bear does.
I looked the Yoreh Deah 363 and the Noseh Kalim (commentaries).
The land of Israel affords atonement, according to ther Rema if that is not possible then some earth from Israel can be put in the grave.
According to the Pischei Teshuva, the sons can bury their father in Israel against his wishes unless he gave a specific “Tzavaah” not to be buried in Israel.
Most important, the Shulchan Aruch and the commentaries were written before this antizionism crept into our Torah community. Some who want to elevate Yiddish nowadays are driven by this antizionism to deligitimize anything that is a result of zionists including Pentium processors.
EDITED
Shulchan Aruch/Yoreh Deah/363 discusses the general prohibition of reburial.
…but to Eretz Yisroel is an exception.
Exactly how it applies in practice I do not know.
Was it the desire of the Bresslover Rebbe to have 25,000 Jewish men leave their families every year, most of them leaving the real Eretz HaKodesh for Rosh HaShana?
According to tradition all buried bodies outside Eretz Yisroel have to first come there before actual restoration to life.
Cherrybim, like Yosef the Bresslover Rebbe needs to be re-interred in Israel.
Language translates into location focus.
English means London is the center of the world.
Yiddish makes eastern Europe the center focus.
Hebrew and even “modern” Hebrew makes Jerusalem the center of the world.
Yaacov did not want to buried in Egypt, so that there would not be a focus location in Egypt, but in Hevron.
Mount Sinai after Matan Torah never became a reference point.
By hiding where Moshe is buried, G-d prevented us from having a reference point outside Eretz Yisroel.
Goshen is not a reference point. Where we crosed the Red Sea is not a reference point.
210 years in Egypt and 40 years in desert, zero reference points.
But the Avos before them created many reference points.
Most commentators, I believe interpret the warning in the Luchos to be against kidnapping. But there are plenty of other warnings against theft in the Torah.
Users of dishonest weights and measures are called an abomination which is more severe than other actions which are called “doing an abomination”.
The military looks 15 to 50 years ahead. They are already planning weapons systems for the mid – century!!!
The military can not correct the damage to would be solders who were malnurished early in life on in utero.
“The problem with jeans in my opinion is, that by wearing it you’re making a statement”
Correct: The starement is, “Working is less a Bizayon (disgrace) than begging.”
I will only respect those who are concerned about how our youth dresses if they are even more concerned that every Jewish teen age boy be on a path towards an honorable way of making a living.
3 geneartions ago it was: Suit = responsible breadearner. Jeans = bum
Now it is the opposite.
I posted this in another thread, but it belongs here also:
WIC and food stamps are to make sure this country is always ready to go to war if needed. Those of military age must be healthy. WIC actually saves the government money.
Those pushing military readiness are not socialists. Hence, if you are eligible and not using this food aid will put you or your children at risk of malnutrition you are probably obligated to accept from Torah law and to be a good citizen.
Here is a web site with a 5 page PDF about Mekubalim from a Charedei perspective.
I can download it on one computer, but not the other.
assur assur assur This all legitimate Orthodox groups agree upon from Satmar to MO.
I saw a 5 page PDF from Rabbi Eli Teitelbaum on this but can not down load it now.
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WIC and food stamps are to make sure this country is always ready to go to war if needed. Those of military age must be healthy. WIC actually saves the government money.
Those pushing military readiness are not socialists. Hence, if you are eligible and not using this food aid will put you or your children at risk of malnutrition you are probably obligated to accept from Torah law and to be a good citizen.
If the practice in this country is for students in professional schools to rely upon certain government programs, then for those in Kollel to rely on the same programs for the same length of time would not be a problem of Kavod HaTorah.
Baltimore has its “yiddish league”.
A lack of Kosher outlets can lead to rebellion and / or destructive behavior.
Boys (even the “best” boys) need a physical outlet.
EDITED
In the Midbar (and shortly after) the Shevet levi was 2.5% of the total community, not including converts. 10% of 3 major commodities went to them so that they could be supported with honor.
If we can grow a Shomer Shabbos community to have 1 million families, 25,000 kollel families can be supported BeKavod (with honor).
In Israel if the “secular” majority will see orthodoxy not as those relying upon the state, then there will be better success with Kiruv (bringing them back to keep Shabbos).
Jothar, there is funding and funding. Argument there was about Jewish (presumably Torah keeping) community funds, not funding specifically for the poor from a government in which Torah keeping Jews are only a minority.
“Josh31- what funding is good enough for the Kavod of Torah?”
Some “out-of-town” kollels provide stipends such that the recipients are disqualified from getting government support. Also, check out the YU kollel.
We can not rely upon Yiras shamayim alone to prevent sin.
There are countless examples.
The Rabbinic enactments for Shabbos are a clear example.
Advise from Torah leaders such as R’ Nosson Wachtfogel Z”L for young couples to have more “together” time gets turned into a new “tznius” restriction by the Kanoim (zealots), some of whom are in the CR.
No.
Such funding destroys the Kavod (Honor) of Torah.
Kavod HaTorah is enhanced by only allowing full time Kollel status to those who do the “profession” of the modern Shevet Levi honor.
Learning has to be open to all, but not full time Kollel status.
“Is a white shirt with colored stripes considered a white shirt or a colored one?”
According to my best guess it should be considered white if the white stripes are at least a “gris” wide. Then if the shirt was made of wool or linen it could contract the Tumah of Tza-raas according to my best understanding.
On the other hand those most Makpid (insisting on) white shirts are Chasidim, so they should decide. I am not a Chasid as my thinking process is like Adam HaRishon -“a yeka”.
Joseph, with your last post you make English the language of Dibat Ha-aretz.
Hebrew is now the dominant language of Torah in Eretz Yisroel / Israel even if you only count the Charedim and not the religious Zionists.
Your last sentence shows an intense hatred towards our brothers in Eretz Yisroel / Israel.
For English there is redemption: It is also the dominant language of Torah now in the USA. A big reason for the tremendous growth of Torah in the USA was the decision of the local Torah leaders almost 2 generations ago to teach Chumash and Gemara in English.
Joseph, in another post you stated that YWN CR was not the proper place to post negative comments about Tzedakah institutions.
Now you are taking what has become a mainstay institution performing the highest level of Tzedakah for hundreds Charedim by teaching them specific skills to make a living, and throwing a statement made decades ago in the face of the institution.
i do not know the history.
Best analogy is recording the harshest mussar a boy heard in his youth and playing it back to him 20 years later in front of his wife and children.
Joseph, what if the would be learner insist on wearing blue shirts?
We need more practical advice in this area.
There are things an individual can do and things that can be done on the communal level.
Shabbos morning is most problematic. Later in the service is always worse.
An early Hashkama minyan that takes under 2 hours helps a lot.
Sitting closer to Mizrach should help.
At the communal level: Do not allow the later half of the service to get “bogged down”.
Our shul has eliminated Mi Shebayrachs and replaced them with donation cards.