Joseph

yossiesiegel, you pop up everytime you need to defend your other username yoshi (which are both registered on the same day, and the only time you comment is in defense of yoshi.) But don’t worry, you would never get the chance to. Halacha will always prevail and you’ll be left behind with yoshi on that sinking boat.

squeak, Constitutionally the only qualifications are being a natural-born citizen, 35 years of age and minimum 14-year resident of the US (aside from term limits.) So if any 35 year-old with no experience other than being a resident citizen is your cup of tea, Obama is your man. For the rest of us, we’ll look for something bit more substantial than an empty suit who is a freshman Senator with being a local State legislator his only previous on-the-job experience to purportedly qualify him to lead the U.S. of A.

Pahuteh,

Perhaps if we use another 2 languages we can add another bakers dozen of sub-sub-categories? And if we try hard enough, maybe every Jew can be placed in his own categorical sub-saharin ethnic/religious socio-economic minority affirmative-action approved depressed race group!

lyillini, and if its a matter of “going above and beyond”, why not have the lady open the door for the man? Because that doesn’t conform to the “proper” definition of being a “Gentleman” as defined by secular America.

Unlike zly

illini, I agree with ujm regarding chivalry. Additionally, a man cannot walk behind a woman, putting to rest many chivalry situations. This whole chivalry business is a purely secular idea, something our Zeidas, pre-America, certainly had no place for, and Bnei Torahs today do not engage in.

lesschumras,

Thats assuming that Goyim wore Shtreimels at one time, a specious argument at best. So I think that logic fails. (For the record, I don’t wear a Shtreimel, Bekeshe, etc.)

Yes rabbiofberlin. To find the information you seek, read the book “Perfidy” authored by Ben Hecht (who happened to be a zionist), as it relates the testimony Kastner made in Nuremberg, after the war, for the defense of several Nazi war criminals (honoring his word to them made during the war, when they helped him.) The book includes the relevant references.

yossi, Eseiv Sonei Yaakov. Sorry if it offends your liberal American sensibilities.

squeak, Where a minhug comes from is irrelevant as far as you and I are concerned. We must follow our fathers minhugim, it is as simple as that. There is no need to “research” its background, putting aside whether what you call urban legend is in fact true or not.

If you look back into the not too distant past, Chasidim and Litvaks didn’t dress differently from each other in any significant manner. The Chasidim continue to dress as they traditionally have and the Litvish were forced at some point, for whatever reasons, to change. They weren’t wearing a fedora, suit and tie in Lita 150 years ago.

I think comments should be closed, as no good can come of it.

mariner, Brick township is in New Jersey (not New York.)

Feif, Even in the absence of irrefutable proof, it is usually a fair assumption that the goy hates the Jew. (May not always be the case. May not even have been the case here. But that isn’t a bad assumption.)

rabbiofberlin,

Since you indicated your desire to research the Judgment against Kastner, here is the reference (for the Israeli court decision):

Protocol C.C. 124/53 in the D.C. Jerusalem.

Judge Dr. Benjamin Halevi, President of the Jerusalem District Court, 22 June 1955.

It is still summer and this message is very poignant.

rabbiofberlin, at the same time you are researching if Chillul Shabbos is permissible in that case where FOR SURE someone will become so, please also research whether violating shomer negiah is permissible where someone POSSIBLY will become frum.

Think Big,

My comparison to Kollel is regarding those who criticize Kollel. They criticize Kollel, with the litany of all the usual grievances that too many people go there, they don’t work, they don’t learn and whatever other baggage they try to dump on the holiest people in our nation. These will be the same crowds that tell you to mind your own business about tznius, that any pseudo-standards are more than sufficient, start yelling that tznius rules are like the Taliban, etc.

Aside from not conceding your approach regarding styles, trends, and fashions is more correct, I’ll tell you this. My thoughts on this subject are not in fact my thoughts at all. They stem from the thoughts, and approach, taken by Rabbonim. So your bewilderment if this is the characteristic male approach, I’ll say this is a characteristic approach of our Chachomim.

Trust me, of all people on this forum (and I mean EVER) that I’ve encountered, you are by far the most earnest, serious, and Torah-centric. Many in the general populace (and certainly most of those populating the internet) are at minimum blissfully unaware of tznius obligations or even maliciously uncaring. I would not characterize our discussion as being in disagreement in essence, but rather as refinement towards the nitty-gritty’s that have a slightly different understanding.

I think it is a very safe bet to state that in practice both of our implementations of our families personal tznius is identical.

Think BIG,

“wanting to dress individually and tastefully” Absolutely. But why follow styles and trends (as they change at the whims of pruste designers in Paris)? (Even X number of years later.)

To answer your question, B’H yes.

tzippi,

My suit hasn’t much changed in the last 20 years. I buy a new one when the old is worn out, not when some pruste clothing designer in Paris decided that a new style is “in.” Obviously you are subject to what a store is currently offering, but as Thing Big pointed out there are styles that stick around from one “fashion” to the next, and are individual and tasteful and fully in line for a Bas Yisroel.

gavra_at_work: “Obviously Joseph is not a Woman.”

I literally thank G-d every day for that.

(Sorry, that is intended to be HUMOROUS in case anyone lacks that understanding. I can already see the misogynist catcalls coming.)

Another interesting point is that tznius is “controversial” for the same reason Kollel is controversial. People don’t want to hear about it. They feel inexplicably threatened by those who maintain tznius and those who learn in Kollel. They feel inherently inferior to those who maintain traditions in the proper manner, so they must lash out at those that do, to attempt to bring them down to their level.

The proper attitude is of course to raise their own levels of kedusha to a higher madreiga. And if they can’t learn in Kollel, certainly a reasonable possibility, at least support (rhetorically and financially) those that do.

Think Big,

I heard the same story regarding the manner of dress re Chasidish and Litvish.

“you need to defend yourself when you are in the right” (and “he feels HE is the authentic one”)

Is that a suggestion that one way or another is more “in the right” (or “the authentic one”)?

rabbiofberlin, If being mechallel shabbos would work for some people as a kiruv tool, can one be mechallel shabbos for kiruv’s sake? If not where do we draw the line? At chillul shabbos but not shomer negiah?

Feif Un, You are assuming false imputations. Who said anything about a Rosh Yeshiva, etc.?

Feif Un, I submit not only is your criticism wrong, you are commenting on what your mirror reflects.

Listening to Bach, Mozart, Beethoven for sure.

You’ve said it all jo jo.