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jphone, I’ve seen gallon-size Golden Flow CY milk.
cantor, Notice I said LEGAL. As long as an action is LEGAL, i.e. going to Kollel and getting FULL food stamps/WIC/etc. benefits, the Yidden should take no less advantage of it then the non-Jews.
When welfare is corrected by the government so that the minorities can’t abuse it, you can start worrying about everyone else. Until such time, every Jew should take as much advantage of the “system” as is done by everyone else. As long as it is legal, use it.
PY, Please. Don’t fardray the heilige Chofetz Chaim. According to your krum logic, the MB permits tight clothing so long it is below the knee. Slits are assur; if you do it anyways, at least don’t try to be matir chazar.
tb, beautiful analogy.
head, VERY well put (regarding the accuracy of those rags.)
squeak, she is from the traditional oilem where women still follow Chazal’s proscription that noshim not learn Gemora.
Where are all you anti-Torah (i.e. anti-Kollel) guys upset over the minorities leeching off welfare? Are you only opposed to Torah Study?
lgbg, who are you preparing this dinner for?
mazal77:
You are absolutely correct. Gift giving comes straight from the “season” holiday of the goyim (when they historically would murder Yidden — hence Nitl Nacht.) Giving every day is a really spoiled activity.
It IS a Minhug Yisroel to give Chanukah Gelt.
Wolf, I posted a reply on YOUR entry regarding the ywn cf creation debate.
Avi,PLEASE PLEASE create a a new screen name AviTheTzaddik! The one you uses doesn’t ”pas” for a tzaddik like you.
rabbiofberlin,
You were moida in a previous thread (and this is a direct quote from you) “I freely admit that the preponderance of opinions is in your favoir as far as torah shebaal peh for women. this is evident from the Poskim you brought down.” in response to the various sources quoted regarding women and Torah Sh’Baal Peh.
Regarding the meaning of Tiflus, like the post on the previous page mentions: Rashi comments that Tiflus means lechery, meaning the study of Torah will lead women to immoral sexual acts.
And here are some additional sources regarding this issue, that were quoted on a previous thread:
Aruch Hashulchan
We have never taught women from a book, nor have we ever heard people actually do so. Rather every mother teaches her daughter well-known rules women should know.
Sefer Hachasidim
One should teach his daughters practical law – not because there is a requirement for them to learn, but so that they should know the laws. Once they know the laws, there is no need for them to learn any more.
Torah Temimah (R. Boruch Epstein, 12th century)
Girls do not have the intellectual stability and are, therefore, unable to make profound inquries with a sharp mind and appreciate the depth of the Torah. It is possible thay by using their own minds, they will transgress the Torah.
Tur (Yoreh Deah 246, 15)
Most women’s minds are not geared toward being taught, but if she had begun to study properly herself, not making Torah into foolishness, she is no longer like most women and she is rewarded…
smartcookie, Emunah in the Bashefer.
illini:
1. Which 1 individual said something inconsistent between your two referenced threads? I see none.
2. Who said in either thread, to quote you, “there is no spirit of the law”? No one. (Saying that “al pi halacha” defines “right and wrong”, does not exclude a “spirit of the law” issue.)
squeak – neither. it seems we’ve been passing jokes between each other (re: yours in the bowling/bar thread.) yet it surely wasn’t (intended as) anything personal. alls well that ends well…
smalltowngirl, You mentioned earlier you were struggling. Do the numerous sources help you?
(bigmo: nisht meina pshat!)
shindy: Absolutely not.
Heilige Torah!
We need more Yidden learning.
We need to encourage yungerleit to sit and learn.
smalltowngirl,
Per our conversation, here are the sources (reposted from a previous thread over 2 months ago) prohibiting women from learning Torah She’Baal Peh (i.e. Gemorah):
Masechtes Sotah Daf 21b on top, and Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah siman 246 sif 6.
Shulchan Orach:
“tzivu chaza”l shelo yilmad adam es bito torah mipnei sherov hanashim ein da’atan michuvanos l’hislamed u’motzios divrei torah l’divrei havai l’phi anius da’atan, amru chaza”l kol hamilamed es bito torah k’ilu milamda tiflus (now pay attention to this part, please) bameh divorim amurim torah she’bal peh, aval torah she’bicsav…”.
And as attested to by the Gr”a (sham,os 24) and Chid”a in Birkei Yosef (sham,os 7) we pasken like R’Eliezer [and R’Yehoshua] as stated in the Rambam (hilchos talmud torah perek 1 halacha 13) and the Tur.
There is a dispute in the Mishna Sotah 20a whether one is even allowed to teach Torah to women at all. The argument against the teaching of Torah to women states that if one does so, it is like teaching them Tiflus. Rashi comments that Tiflus means lechery, meaning the study of Torah will lead women to immoral sexual acts. Rashi then cites the famous story of Bruriah, one of the greatest female scholars in Jewish history to prove his point. One day, Bruriah ridiculed the Gemara (in Kidushin 80b) which states that that women are lightheaded. Rabbi Meir, her husband, ordered his student to test Bruriah’s strength and try to seduce his wife. Bruriah caved in and when she realized what she had done, she hung herself.
Thus Rashi’s argument is that women’s minds are not meant for serious Torah learning. The Rambam agrees with Rashi’s take. Rambam also adds that when the chachamim had said, “He who teaches his daughter Torah, is as if he taught his daughter tiflus,”only applies to the oral law. The Rambam says that a man should not teach his daughters written law but if he does, it is not considered tiflus. The Shulchan Urach follows this approach of Rambam.
Women Learning Gemara – THE PROHIBITION:
The conclusion is that there are four areas within this law:
1. Women may not learn the Oral Torah
2. Women may learn the simple meaning of the Written Torah
3. Women may not learn the Written Torah in depth
4. Women must learn the laws that apply to them
The poskim assume that included within “the laws that apply to them” is mussar that keep women them within the bounds of halachah. Even the Satmar Raebbe who as we shall see was very strict on these rules, permits women to learn mussar (VaYoel Moshe, Maamar Loshon Hakodesh, ch. 33). He does not, however, permit women to study even Rashi on the Torah because it contains Oral Torah. (Much more can be found in the 3rd part of Vayoel Moshe – “Maamar Loshon Hakodesh” – which is actually based on a teshuva that the Satmar Rebbe ZT’L wrote to Rav Pinchos Hirshprung ZT’L of Montreal.)
Note that the suggestion that this prohibition emanates from some sort of misogynist rabbinic bias or historical circumstance is insulting and bordering on heresy.
Queen: She likely meant Ch’san Sofer. The only Chasam Sofer I know of, is in Eretz Yisroel.
smalltowngirl,
Its whether its public or private. I’Y’H I’ll try to link to the post with many sources later. Its quite extensive and very clear, and is across the spectrum.
squeak, did you hear any lines as you passed the Statue of Liberty, when you came over in the boat? (I don’t mean from the people throwing their tefilin over…)
smalltowngirl,
A girl cannot learn any Torah Shel Baal Peh, which Gemora is a part. This is clear.
There was previously a LONG discussion about just this issue in the Coffee Room. If you search for it, you can find it. I think part of it was in the Rav Belsky thread. If you cannot locate it, perhaps I can link to it later.
(As an aside, at the end, even rabbiofberlin who was trying to defend girls learning Gemora, admitted that the strong consensus amongst all the Rishonim and Achronim were completely opposed to it.)
Feif Un, I wear blue shirts!
A girl is not allowed to learn Gemora. This type of impressing, aside from being bane, should raise all sorts of red flags.
I agree with ICOT, Torah Vodas is well-worth considering.
One other Yeshiva that comes to mind is The Cheder (near McDonald Ave.)
“There can be a bigger chillul Hashem caused by yeshiva guys going to a kiddush…”
Agreed. Yet two wrongs don’t make a right. Just because there could be, or there is, or there was, another type of situation thats worse – in no way, and no how, justifies this travesty and Chillul Hashem of the first order.
Do you really think Rabbi Akiva or Moshe Rabbeinu EVER would be in a bar c’v?? I need to go to the mikva shuddering even at the question.
There is no “story” where a Yeshiva Bachor, or any frum yid for that matter, should EVER be in a bar. (“Wronger” shmonger. Two wrongs don’t make a right.)
Queen: Maybe take a look at it after you researched the others. Its a mix with litvish too (many old-time Chaim Berliners sent there.)
I’m not intimately familiar with them, but perhaps look into Yeshiva of Bensonhurst and Yeshiva Tiferes Elimelech as well.
zats mich moichel is right..!
Btw ICOT, I just read, and love, those 2 deleted jokes! (Its still in my RSS feed of the Coffee Room.)
ICOT: Zats mich moichel for being choished, do you google or are you an absolute genius? (Azoi shnel!)
Queen: or Stolin (more on the chasidish side, but mixed)
Queen: What about Veretzky (Flatbush) or Ch’san Sofer (Boro Park)?
have any random questions about absolutly nothing that u dont know who to ask or dont want to ask anyone bec you will feel stupid not knowing? post them here…..
YES, in fact!
What does “dont have internet” mean?
your welcome.
you still didn’t explain your screen name.
what does “dont have internet” mean?
dont have internet – in my humble opinion
dont have internet – do you have internet?
rabbiofberlin, I haven’t read it yet, but according to Pashuteh Yid’s wording above “Siman 88, he seems to be more definitive after being shown an exact map of Brooklyn” it seems it was the latter.
chances are it was kosher
chances are it was okay
chances are it was kosher
chances are it was tznius
chances are it was all for fun
chances are it was not maaris eyin
chances are they didn’t do anything inappropriate
chances are they didn’t hook up with the wrong crowd
chances are it was perfectly fine for a Yeshiva Bachor
chances are they’ll stay frum
chances are they’ll stay kosher
chances are they won’t go off the derech
Too many “chances.”
A bar is not permissible to a frum yid, let alone a Yeshiva Bachor, EVER.
Pashuteh, So Siman 88 would settle the matter then.
Pashuteh, I believe you are mistaken.
A ticket in NYC for alternate side is either $35 or 45 (I forget.)