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Because Pirkei Avos says Shemoneh Esrei L’Chupa (see also Rambam, Hilchos Ishus 15:28; Tur and Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer, beginning of perek 1. see also Shulchan Aruch, Admur HaZakein, Hilchos Talmud Torah perek 1, Kuntres Acharon I.) And Rav Chisda says that marriage at an early age leads to superior spiritual qualities and freedom from aveira (Kiddushin 29b). The Gemora says a young man who isn’t married by 18 “Hashem waits for him until he’s twenty, and if he’s not married by 20, then Hashem says “blast his bones.”
If we daven hard enough, perhaps we can beseech the Ribono Shel Olam to bring about its conclusion peacefully.
The man turning age is 13.
BYM: Are those your initials you signed with? And if so, are you by any chance Goldi Locks?
Cash in the mattress.
notpashut, cantoresq,
Regarding rabbinic authority – see Choshen Mishpat 2, and the excellent discussion in Tzitz Eliezar (19:51).
Shabbos 112b:
If Chazal, who are as Malachei Elyon compared to us, made such comparisons between themselves and previous generations, what does that say about us? Someone once interpreted Chazal’s adage as follows: “if the early ones were sons of angels we are sons of men” – if WE view the earlier generations as angels, then we are worthy of being called men. However, “if the early ones are sons of men” – if we do not recognize the greatness of the earlier generations and view them as mere human beings, “then we are like donkeys – we are not even worthy of being called human beings!”
Wolf, NOW you are being dense. What was the message conveyed by G123 with his comment of Im Rishonim K’Malachim, as it pertains to this discussion?
G123,
Beautifully put.
mariner, Except that Kollel is winning.
rob,
Cleary the point escapes you.
The Tur and all the meforshim we are discussing ARE G-D’s ANGELS. The’re word, is G-d’s word. Replace the ”Tur” (or whoever) from your questions, with ”G-d” to realize how imbecilic these questions are.
Here is a first-hand story from a very close relative living in flatbush. (You can come and hear it first-hand if you would like.) Before the war the Satmar Rebbe ZTV’L used to travel across Europe to raise funds for the Yeshiva. This relative lived in a Jewish town in Czechoslovakia. When the Rebbe came every year, he would stay in their house. During the early year wars, a decree was made at certain times by the Czech government forbidding the use of lighting (including indoors), so the enemy bombers shouldn’t be able to use it as a guiding light.
Well, as luck would have it, when the Rebbe came one year, this decree was in effect at the time. So my family removed all the outdoor lighting traditionally used to be mekabel ponim the Rebbe. And they covered as much as possible the indoor lighting. The living/dining room was a large room with some doors midway through, that mostly obscured one half from the other. The table was packed with family and the Rebbe’s chasidim.
The goyish neighbors, as much as was done to obscure it from the outside, saw the light coming from the house when the Rebbe was there. Not exactly being friends of the Jews, they called the police. Well with a war going on, the towns Chief of Police was at the house rather quickly. He barges in with his Lieutenants, and demands to know why there are lights burning. My relative is there shaking with fear as his father tries explaining to the Chief that the Grand Rabbi came from out of the country, and it would be highly inappropriate to be mekabel him in darkness. So the Chief demands to see the Rabbi. The Rebbe was sitting at the head of the long table in the front half of the room obscured by the doors in middle. With no other choice, his father asks some of the talmidim near the doors to swing them wide open so the Chief could see the Grand Rabbi. The doors were opened wide, and my relative – and everyone there – witnessed a poweful and blinding light emanating from the Rebbe’s forehead. The jackbooted Chief of Police and every one of his Lieutenants, without another single word, made a U-turn and a beeline for the exit, running as if for their dear lives.
This is from a tzadik who was niftar LESS THAN 30 YEARS AGO.
AL ACHAS KAMA V’KAMA THE TUR AND THESE OTHER ANGELS. You and I are less than the dirt on the ground they stepped on. Anyone of us who questions their ”biases” or ”upbringings” or ”environmental influences” needs their head examined.
Would you c’v ask these questions about G-d? If not, don’t ask them about G-d’s personal right-hand angels.
Wolf,
Please tell me your kidding that you think it is possible that Gedolei Yisroel ZTV’L, the biggest of the big — encompassing a greatness that neither of us can fathom, — issued a psak halacha or statement based upon their ”personal biases.”
You are better than that.
Wolf,
Absolutely not. With all due respect, it takes a great deal of ignorance to ask such a question.
squeak – Yochanon (from the main yw site) thought the same thing before we went to lunch.
zalmy,
In my previous post, I have not stated a word as to my position. I merely quoted a posuk from the Torah (from Krias Shma), a Mishna, a Rema on Yore Deah, and quoted various Gedolei Yisroel.
You are not disagreeing with me…
I don’t particularly recall discussing this issue, but I surely can inquire. Nevertheless, if I may be so bold as to predict the response, it would be along the lines Kol Hakovod to the various Rabbonim of the kehilos that have established this heilige takana in upholding tznius. (Not implying that other kehilos are obligated to follow suit.)
I do know that the Rebbetzin has never driven.
Rebbe Meir says, a man should ever teach his son a clean and easy trade, and pray to He to whom all wealth and property belong. Rebbe Nehorai says, I leave aside all of the trades in the world and I don’t teach my son anything but Torah.
(Kiddushin 4:14)
The Rema on Yoreh Deah 246:21 says one who is not independently wealthy should accept community support to learn Torah.
Rav Zalman Nechemia Goldberg (a prominent Yerusalayim Dayan, and son-in-law of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt”l) was consulted by a yeshiva boy regarding his interest in studying medicine. The young man asked how the community to which he belonged could seemingly disregard our Sages’ admonition to take steps to remain self-supporting. Rav Goldberg responded with the following story:
A certain Jew once confronted Rav Elchanan Wasserman, asking how charedim could neglect the beraisa which says that a father is obligated to teach his son a trade. (Rav Wasserman, author of “Kovetz Shiurim,” was very adamant that Yeshiva students should strive to devote all their time to study). Rav Wasserman pointed out that this beraisa also compels the father to circumcise his son. As we know, if two sons die from this procedure, then the father should not circumcise his other sons (Shulchan Arukch Yoreh Deah 263:2). Likewise, Rav Wasserman saw that many young people died, that is defected from Torah observance, when they pursued trades.
In “Sippurei Chasidim” (Mishpatim number 198), Rav Zevin tells of one of the early Chasidic Rebbes, Rav Uri the “Seraph” of Sterlisk, who was asked how he could neglect his wife and children, insofar as his kesuba obligates him to work. Rav Uri pointed out that the kesuba obliges the husband to support his wife “bekushta” – in truth, implying that the search for truth (Torah study) has precedence.
“v’shenantum l’vanecha v’dibarta bam”
…..when squeak is trying way to hard, when he could simply ask Joseph to lunch.
Ashrecha Yisroel, me and the good Rabbi go back a loooong loooong time…
ahh, the good ‘ole days…
Wolf – What if you pass a Yid late stuck in Hicksville or highway (no mans land) and your cell is out?
DHI – Those guys have their hitching finger up for every car, long before they know who the driver is.
jf02, Expound on why you feel if its fully legal, Yidden should take less advantage of the system than the non-Jews. You are wrong in my opinion.
SJS, Even if it is a chumra, if the Rabbonim of the Kehila decree it, it is obligatory upon all members of the Kehila whether they understand it or not.
I know a rabbi who paskens you can drive to shul on Shabbos if you live to far. Live and let live. I hope SJS agrees to live with varying halachic opinions and would not be against all of this rabbis congregants driving to shul on Shabbos. Right SJS?
No one is imposing a No Women Drivers rule on worldwide Jewry.
But appreciate the holy minhugim of others that have been applied by Gedolei Yisroel ZT’L and Shlita that are fully rooted in our holy Torah — even if YOU don’t understand the logic.
The bottom line is that the VAST VAST majority of Kollel yungerleit are Tzadikim, that we should be aspiring to emulate. (And we should be seeking to boost their ranks — as is they constitute a TINY percentage of Klal Yisroel.)
For one to say otherwise is to be a Baal Loshon Hora and a Baal Sheker, as well as an afront on the Torah itself. And it comes with all the shreklach consequences of someone in that position.
A house divided against itself cannot stand.
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other.
Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?
And in the end it’s not the years in your life that count. It’s the life in your years.
Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable – a most sacred right – a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.
Avoid popularity if you would have peace.
Ballots are the rightful and peaceful successors to bullets.
Be sure you put your feet in the right place, then stand firm.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren’t very new at all.
Common looking people are the best in the world: that is the reason the Lord makes so many of them.
Character is like a tree and reputation like its shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing.
Discourage litigation. Persuade your neighbors to compromise whenever you can. As a peacemaker the lawyer has superior opportunity of being a good man. There will still be business enough.
Don’t worry when you are not recognized, but strive to be worthy of recognition.
Everybody likes a compliment.
Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe.
God must love the common man, he made so many of them.
Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth.
I don’t like that man. I must get to know him better.
I have always found that mercy bears richer fruits than strict justice.
I never had a policy; I have just tried to do my very best each and every day.
If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee.
Never stir up litigation. A worse man can scarcely be found than one who does this.
Public sentiment is everything. With public sentiment, nothing can fail. Without it, nothing can succeed.
Republicans are for both the man and the dollar, but in case of conflict the man before the dollar.
Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God’s side, for God is always right.
You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
Abraham Lincoln
A nickel ain’t worth a dime anymore.
All pitchers are liars or crybabies.
Always go to other people’s funerals, otherwise they won’t come to yours.
Baseball is ninety percent mental and the other half is physical.
Congratulations. I knew the record would stand until it was broken.
Even Napoleon had his Watergate.
Half the lies they tell about me aren’t true.
He hits from both sides of the plate. He’s amphibious.
How can you think and hit at the same time?
I always thought that record would stand until it was broken.
I just want to thank everyone who made this day necessary.
I never blame myself when I’m not hitting. I just blame the bat and if it keeps up, I change bats. After all, if I know it isn’t my fault that I’m not hitting, how can I get mad at myself?
I never said most of the things I said.
I think Little League is wonderful. It keeps the kids out of the house.
I wish I had an answer to that because I’m tired of answering that question.
I’m a lucky guy and I’m happy to be with the Yankees. And I want to thank everyone for making this night necessary.
I’m not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did.
If people don’t want to come out to the ball park, nobody’s gonna stop ’em.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn’t be.
If you ask me anything I don’t know, I’m not going to answer.
If you come to a fork in the road, take it.
If you don’t know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.
In baseball, you don’t know nothing.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
It ain’t over till it’s over.
It ain’t the heat, it’s the humility.
It gets late early out there.
It was impossible to get a conversation going, everybody was talking too much.
It’s like deja-vu, all over again.
It’s pretty far, but it doesn’t seem like it.
Little League baseball is a very good thing because it keeps the parents off the streets.
Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.
Slump? I ain’t in no slump… I just ain’t hitting.
So I’m ugly. So what? I never saw anyone hit with his face.
The future ain’t what it used to be.
The only color I don’t have is navy brown.
The other teams could make trouble for us if they win.
The towels were so thick there I could hardly close my suitcase.
There are some people who, if they don’t already know, you can’t tell ’em.
We have deep depth.
We made too many wrong mistakes.
You better cut the pizza in four pieces because I’m not hungry enough to eat six.
You can observe a lot by just watching.
You got to be careful if you don’t know where you’re going, because you might not get there.
You wouldn’t have won if we’d beaten you.
Yogi Berra
646, get yourself a Rov before incorrectly making Torah deductions.
SJSinNYC, rabbiofberlin advised me it is correctly spelled as Joseph (even though it is pronounced Yoseph.)
oomis: Then leave it to whose job it is to make these decisions — Rabbonim & Poskim. If THEY decide its a tznius issue, you and I are nothings and can say nothing regarding THEIR decision for their kehilos. (If you are of a different kehila, simply follow your Rabbonim and let them follow theirs.)
on bottom of the post box, is a list of usable codes.
em is italics
strong is bold
Whaddabout Cyber-Monday (following Black Friday)?
oomis, when you become a posek, you can fathom whatever logic, however wrong, that suits your desire.
Btw, I DO agree with Pashuteh Yid’s point here…
jf02, You’d make a mighty fine Morah! Please consider the suggestion…
Not every bochor/yungerman currently goes to Kollel. We don’t disagree that its not for EVERYONE. Yet Klal Yisroel does stand to benefit if we can encourage additional kollelleit to join the ranks.
And yes, let them take FULL advantage of any and all LEGAL benefits available (food stamps, etc.), no less than the pruste shikkar goy does. Yidden pay taxes, let yidden enjoy its fruits.
rob, mekubal seems to agree with myself and the others.
jf02, FINALLY you actually have a good idea! 🙂
Make a brocho and eat it.
…bordering on heresy as it implies somehow that Rambam c’v would tolerate wife-beating. Aside from being a lie, such a thought is repulsive. While gentile society has traditions of allowing husbands the legal right to literally kill their wives (per Roman law), Jewish scoiety has ALWAYS throughout its glorious history condemned ANY abuse.
jf02, That statement you quoted (not your response to it) is not only factually inaccurate (insofar as it pertains to Jewish society), it is bordering on heresy.
So your question is unfounded.
mekubal,
Then we seem to be in agreement. We both agree that Maran was referring to “relevant” issues. (And in any event, in this case referring to her husband discussing the relevant portions with her — not her going off to some Gemora school.)
mariner, You are wrong and Kollel life will continue to grow and prosper. The kollel guy making 20k/year is A LOT more productive than the Goldman Sachs analysts making 600,000/year (the average salary of all — including taking into account the janitors — Goldman Sachs employees.)
And yes my friend, they WILL continue to accept every dollar in available food stamps, etc. And G-d bless them for it. So why are we having this debate? Life goes on.
Bottom line is to follow your husbands minhug/poisek in this matter (as you should in all mattters.)
mekubal, where is your claimed psak of Maran Eliyashev recorded? I’ve heard the precise opposite.
It depends on your husbands minhug. Some communities consider it lacking in tzinius. (i.e. in Williamsburg and many areas in Eretz Yisroel.)
Like was mentioned by others, the husband could not hit his wife. Rambam is talking about BEIS DIN. The husband could only file a complaint with BEIS DIN, who had the authority to utilize corporal punishment. NOT c’v the husband.