Joseph

Wolfish:

My point is hats and jackets are the cloth of the Jew. Ties are not in the same category.

neatfreak: You are correct in your concerns.

Wolfish: Have you so quickly forgotten out discussion of “lo shinu es malbushayhen”? Of course there is a concept of how Jews dress. And, yes, it is different than the Nations.

EDITED

Wolfish: Is a tie necessarily the cloth of the Jew? A jacket is. A hat is.

rescue: Yes about age 3. The MB doesn’t either say you need to wear a shirt by davening (AFAIK).

Jothar: Thanks for the Psak you issued abrogating the Chasam Sofer and Rav Shach ZT’L.

My preceding comment was (mainly) directed to truthsharer.

“Does that also extend to the case where they don’t understand Yiddish at all?”

Rav Shach ZT’L indicated they should be brought up to understand Yiddish fluently. But if that wasn’t the case, I would imagine Rav Shach ZT’L would be agreeable that they learn in their local language.

You are missing Rav Shach ZTL’s subtleties.

Modern Hebrew is not different than Turkish or Farsi – it is the language of a secular culture complete with all those things that we want to stay away from. The fact that some of those who speak Modern Hebrew are religious Jews is not different than the language of any country Jews are in where they speak the language of the land. The point is to stay away from the language of the land and only talk the language of the Jew.

The Chasam Sofer writes that the reason Jews do not speak Loshon Hakodesh as a speaking language is because it is inappropriate to use a holy language while enveloped in Tumah, which is our current status. The Rambam writes that a love song in Hebrew is more repulsive to Hashem than the same song in Arabic, for instance, because the pollution of the Holy language is an additional crime. If someone wants to store pornography in his house, thats bad enough. But to store it in the Aron HaKodesh is unspeakably worse. So to cause Loshon HaKodesh to be used as a street language, complete with all the disgusting ways it is used today in Israel, is just more of a reason why we should make sure it never gets into the streets. For our Creator to look down at the world and see His holy language – or even elements of it – used in magazines such as are sold in Kiosks on Yaffo or Dizengoff Street, or spoken by the lowest of the low trying to make a sale, is not something that he or we are happy about.

Modern Hebrew’s origin is actually anti-Jewish. The creators of MH did so because “it is not possible to be a nation without a national language” (see Eisentein’s encyclopedia, ‘Ivrit’). And the changes that were made, both in accent and content, are unacceptable.

So to speak MH is one thing, but to say it is the “language of the Jew” is just not so. Neither is Yiddish the “language of the Jew”, any more than a black hat is the “clothing of a Jew.” But just as the purpose of the hat is “lo shinu es malbushayhen” – we want to dress differently than the seculars – the purpose of Yiddish is “lo shinu es shemom” – we want to talk differently than the seculars.

Maran Hagoen Rav Elazar Shach told American educators that Yeshiva boys should be taught Chumash in Yiddish, even if the boys speak English amongst themselves. He furtermore said that both boys and girls should learn to be comfortable in Yiddish. He also said that Yiddish is spoken by “all jews” (that is his phrase). He referred parents to send their children to Yiddish teaching yeshivos. And there is good reason why Rebbes and Rabbonim give ma’amarim in Yiddish.

Wolfish,

1. The MB doesn’t say IF this condition disappears YOU can decide to do otherwise.

2. It is YOU who decided the aforementioned condition disappeared. The halachic authorities may disagree with your contention.

3. Therefore, you need a Psak Din negating what you maintain is abrogated.

Talmud Torah Kneged Kulam.

truthsharer, I do agree with your comments in practically all other situations.

Nobody disagrees with the fact that it is better to have the mother home to raise the kids full time. But in a situation where you cant have that AND a Kollel father and husband at the same time, which of those two has to fall by the wayside? The answer is, you take whichever you think is MORE important: a mother always being home or a father who is the biggest talmid chacham he can be.

Someone in Lakewood once expressed to Rav Schenuer Kotler ZT’L about how if he stays in Kollel his children will be deprived of many things they would have otherwise. Rav Schenuer responded that providing them with a father who is a Talmid Chacham is more important than any of those things. And he should think hard before depriving them of that.

Yes, a woman’s place is at home. But also yes, the type of home you are supposed to have is a Torah home, a Torah-husband and Torah-father at its helm. The question is, if you can only have one of those two positive elements of a home, which is more important? The answer is having a husband and father who is a Talmid Chacham, or better yet, the biggest Talmid Chacham he can be, is the more important of the two.

So if you can have both, fine; if not, then we choose learning. This is not considered making a “compromise” in religion, since either way you will have to give up something – the only question is what has to give. Furthermore, there is a special concept surrounding the Mitzvah of learning that does not apply to any other Mitzvah, a concept that affects both Halachah and Hashkafa, that is, Torah learning in the world is so important that we prioritize Torah learning in a way that we would never do with other Mitzvos. For instance, normally, if you have a choice between you doing a Mitzvah or you causing someone else to do a Mitzvah, we say chayecha kodem – your Mitzvah comes first. So if you can afford one pair of Tefillin, you use it yourself as opposed to giving it away to someone else. However, with regard to Torah learning, the Halachah is that if a father can afford one Rebbi, either for him or his son, if his son has potential to be a Talmid Chacham, he should give the Rebbi to his son, and forgo his own learning. Such an idea exists nowhere except regarding Torah learning.

(Crossposting, due to relevancy of discussion.)

Not available. Sorry.

are you assuming that about socks as well?

I say you look at his shirt…if it’s pink, drop him!

Finally, some common sense!

Jax – We spoke about you a lot. You were the numero uno topic of discussion.

And areivim got shikkur.

That statement about Rav Moshe ZT’L is not accurate.

“Rav Moshe was under the impression that Brooklyn is not encompassed by mechitzos.”

And to say that the mechitzos encircling Brooklyn are sufficient even

Is there any listing of available Gemach’s?

Who cares how goyim dressed amulege tzaytin. All we care about is how Bnei Torah dress today.

david – Are you trying to claim Reb Moshe ZT’L was not opposed to an Eruv in Flatbush?

“How do you know when it is getting serious?”

When you start hearing “Mazal Tov!”

Lo shinu es malbushayhen.

squeak – I say we start again from square one. Let’s do it at KD.

squeak – If you prefer a one-on-one, that too can be arranged.