The Frumguy: I hope you realize I was not serious. Its a joke. But it would make a point. Some guys say pitum hakitores quick. Other guys are so quick that before they start, their done. Their THAT quick.

editor:

why is this thread not the place for that? Its a valid argument that has much to do with the topic of this thread.

I get the idea of editing out bad language or topics, but a discussion about people appreciating the good being edited – wow.

And if its off point? who cares? if you see a point being made in a thread that is off topic you edit it out? your sooo weird.

Thank you for your kind words and mature attitude. You opened a thread asking people to daven for someone on their deathbed. You did not proceed with a discussion about appreciating the good, as you claim. You wanted to mention how unfortunate it is that people have negative attitudes toward the IDF and officials etc. This is not the place for that. Start a new thread

I beg to differ.

Yserbius123: Of course he is not a tzaddik. He is still shlita since all that means is Sheyichyeh liyamim tovim aruchim (or something to that effect) I was saying that Ariel Sharon should live for many long days. I know that it is often used for a person whom the public considers holy, but literally its for anyone who you want to live long.

Syag Lchochma:

I am saying this because number one he is a Jew and number two he ran the country and kept millions of our brethren safe, as well as when he was a big shot in the army.

Yes, he did horrible things. I am not saying we should pray for him because of that. I am saying that no matter what he did, we can focus on the positive, which is that during the years that he was commander in chief, millions of people were protected by him. Certainly there is an strong element of Hakaras Hatov.

Think about it. The Torah commands “Do not despise an Egyptian, because you resided as foreigners in their country.”

Wow. They tortured the Jews. Why not hate someone who hurt you? The Answer is that the Torah is not focusing on that, its focusing on the benefit that you received from them. Because the good is not negated by the bad.

So we are being taught that the good done is not negated by the bad. At the end of the day, you received a benefit. Therefore because of hakaras hatov you can not hate an Egyptian. Imagine hearing that command about the German people?!

How many times more is this so regarding a leader of Israel who maintained a safe country for millions of Jews, despite the harmful things he did? Are there not millions of people who were protected by him? Any person who was, should feel duty bound to reciprocate.

Anyone know his name for Tehillim?

p.b.a: I beg to differ. a Troll is someone who sows discord on the internet – according to wiki. I could point to a thousand and one threads that are of the same type of which you did not scream troll.

I am wondering about an interesting phenomenon that exists. It is a valid discussion. Perhaps you are that type so you are extra sensitive. Sorry for making you uncomfortable.

Dear Akuperma,

We are not telling anyone what to do. We are voicing our opinion. What under G-d’s green earth is wrong with that? Actually, that IS democracy! Just because it may not be assur against Halacha, does not mean that we should not take a stand against it. Are you aware that many Jews vacation there in the summer? What about the fact that gambling is very addictive, and there are thousands of boys and girls in camps and bungalows in the vicinity all summer long?

It’s such basic logic that anyone who does not see a reason to protest it (even if they have monetary or political reasons) needs to have their heads examined.

writersoul – It is about how these politicians will effect us and they effect us most by how they vote on issues.

Popup says it well – that we can measure a candidate by his record as well as by his life choices since they both give us a clear indication about what we can expect. Booker has a very liberal record which is at odds with Torah values. His lifestyle also is at odds with a Jewish way of life. Bachelorhood, Hollywood lifestyle… his externalities are much more important to him than family life.

Ed Koch also happened to be a liberal. He was pro alternative life styles and he certainly was not a family man.

As Jews, we need to place a heavy emphases on values. Its not about charisma. Its about what we stand for. If we truly follow the Torah we would never vote for the man who promotes anti Torah values.

The Jews of New Jersey have an opportunity this week to make a big Kiddush Hashem. They can demonstrate that they are truly a light unto the nations.

akuperma:

If there is a reliable hechsher then obviously there will not be any pig derivative in there, or what have you. Obviously you can not eat something without a hechsher – in this case OU. I am talking about the D part.

I am referring specifically to dairy. I heard that there are government regulations requiring the labeling of dairy even if there is only a trace of it since there are people that can not have any of it for health reasons. If this is true, then if you read a products ingredients and there is no mention of dairy, then there will be no dairy in the product whatsoever.

If so why would it say OUD? Either because I am wrong and despite the fact that there is no mention of dairy – there is dairy in there and there is no such government regulation or I am right and its truly only “dairy equipment” which in fact is NOT chalav akum.

Instead of twisting his words like a pretzel just deal with what he says.

To try and answer some points raised:

He says that the majority of wealth is amassed through wickedness. Wickedness with regard to money means cheating, stealing, shtick etc. He means how it is obtained.He doesn’t mean bitul torah or who knows what, I think most people would agree.

Most means most. No one knows the exact percentage, but it means that most wealthy people do not gain their wealth honestly. Certainly more than 51% since that is practically half and he is not giving a lumdish shiur, he is just speaking straight (which is his style by the way). Most means the majority, not in a technical sense. I think most (pun!) would agree to this assertion.

He was not referring to a time and place, he made a general statement.

I am sure the Iggeres Haramban says to not think negatively of the rich, but I am quoting the Iben Ezra not the Ramban and besides thinking bad of someone and knowing something negative about someone are two different things.

Like it or not, do not make out of his words what he did not say. You do not understand how it is possible, or it goes against your grain, ok. Maybe think into it for a while before you decide it makes no sense.

Personally I do not think it is a big chidush. Yes there are honest wealthy people – but they are a minority.

Think about it, for every honest man with money who studies Choshen Mishpat, there are even more who are wealthy since they desire money, possessions, honor or whatever it is and do not ever study relevant halachos. If so, it is hard to imagine they will withhold from doing their business even if they need to cut corners here and there, flub a little on tax returns, a white lie here and there, withhold money owed, be over on onaah, ribis, and a thousand other details in Choshen Mishpat they never even heard of…many businesses engage in minor illegalities as a way of course. All this fits well with the Iben Ezra’s sweeping beauty of a statement.

For all those dissing the assertion, I searched and found!

Check out Koheles chapter 8 verse 8. (Final piece on verse).

Commenting on the last statement “vlo yimalet resha es bialav” – “and wickedness cannot save the wrongdoer.” the Iben Ezra discusses the word “resha”. First he explains it to mean – not the traditional meaning of “wickedness” – rather “an abundance of movement and victory” He brings two verses to support his assertion.

Then he states “and some explain that it is (refers to) money, since most of it is amassed through wickedness”

In other words, this interpretation uses the traditional meaning of “wickedness” but states that it refers to something definite – money. (I do not understand why the verse cannot simply mean that acts of wickedness – whatever forms they take – will not escape unpunished. I think that somehow the dikduk of “resha” lends itself to be referring to a specific scenario vs. a general meaning. I am not sure why, anyone?)

Be it is it may, the Iben Ezra is bringing down an alternate interpretation. He obviously holds that it could fit into the meaning of the verse, even though he likes his interpretation better. He certainly believes in the sweeping statement, since if held it not to be true he would be the first to blow it off, as he does countless times.

Brony: “btw I hope this is nowhere because it’s false. a dud, if you will.”

You say for a fact it is false. So you hope it is nowhere since that would make the Iben Ezra wrong which you would not want. Maybe (just maybe) you are wrong? Egg on your face.

Oomis: “Tell that to Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi.”

I actually wrote that the Iben Ezra states “most”. We can safely assume that R’ Yehuda HaNasi is not in the “most” category.

HaLeiVi: “if something sounds stupid, a Rishon didn’t say it.”

I do not live in Lakewood.

By the Golden Calf we are told that when Moshe came down from the mountain Yehoshua told Moshe that there is a commotion in the camp. Moshe said it is not the sound of wining the war I hear and it is not the sound of losing the war I hear, it is merely sounds. In other words, if their shouting in enthusiasm was out of victory or loss it would be understandable, but if they are yelling and getting excited about something unimportant we have a problem.

They make a big deal out of creating competition along with all its perils for what? For positive education? No, its excitement to see who will be the “star” just like TV. Idolization.