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No, there is no loshon hara, or No, we are still being oiver?
It didn’t come out so clear to me.
The commercial that YWN posted from Bartenura was quite funny and cute.
Rav Moshe tz”l prohibited movie theaters because of Moshav Leitzim. He also said most movies are being megarah yetzer harah, not all of them.
By the way is this loshan hara saying some shomer shabbos yidden go to movie theaters, or since we are not saying exactly who they are we are not being oiver on loshan hara?
Rav Moshe Feinstein (IM, YD 4:11:1)
?? ??? ????? ????”
? ????’ ‘??”? ??????? ??????’
?????
“?? ???’ ????? ?? ????? ??????
Most movies(?????), not all of them
Here: IM YD 4:11:1
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=922&st=&pgnum=212&hilite=
That there are many board games that are fun.
I think the chance of it being permitted is at least more likely than your cases of ulcers, Hatzoloh calls, etc.
One can also be dan l’kaf z’chus that all seemingly frei Yidden are really frum, and the reason they drive cars on Shabbos is because they’re all in Hatzoloh, the reason they eat tarfus is because they all have ulcers, and the reason they don’t dress tzniusly is because they all have rare, painful skin conditions.
Yes, but you can say that the non-frum jews don’t know any better; so you can say that by the Sheepshead Bay Theater goers. Also, there are halachikly permitted movies.
One can be dan lekuf zchus and say that the people at the Sheepshead Bay Theater are watching clean movies.
In my opinion, no
Also:
:??? ???? ?? ??
??? ???? ?? ??? ?? ????
????? ????? ???? ??????? ?? ??????
???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ???
??? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ???
???”? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ?”? ????? ?”? – ?
:???? ?”?
http://hebrewbooks.org/rambam.aspx?sefer=5&hilchos=27&perek=21&halocha=19&hilite=
:???? ?
http://hebrewbooks.org/rambam.aspx?sefer=5&hilchos=27&perek=21&halocha=20&hilite=
I think as Rav Ovadiah I saw sighted equivocates women on screen to in person regard ervahs – it could l’kula that it is similar to Reb Moshe (ie that women on screen or no worse than in person). People need something.
You wrote a powerful message but Rav Ovadiah tz”l does not equate women on screen to erva in real life. He equates it in regard to hirhur. (Yechovie Daas 4:7)
DaasYochid- I think there may be a misunderstanding between you and DQB. DaasYochid, I don’t think you understand looking at a woman on a screen as equivalent to ????? which is assur. If she is dressed tznius, then you can look at her according to the normative halacha view. Some have a chumra to not look at woman at all, which is a chumra. When she is dressed tznius the main issue is gazing for pleasure purposes.
I’ve heard from an Adam Gadol that Harry Potter is avodah zarah.
It is Avodah Zarah Shebattala. He didn’t say assur, right?
It most certainly is assur to work in an immodest environment if you can obtain an equivalent parnasa elsewhere without being subjected to the immodesty. Even if that required longer travel.
Avodah Zarah 48b
:?????? ?”? ?? ?????
??’ ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???’ ???? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???? ???
While, this Tosafos is discussing idolatrous trees which is less strict then tznius issues, it might also apply to tznius.
??? ????? is hirhur.
I’m not sure what ???? ??? ??? is. But if we go according to what you assume it is, if the movie won’t lead to hirhur or other aveiros, then not assur.
I’m not saying why he is not having hirhur, but for whatever reason he isn’t. Now if the whole issur to look at a screen is hirhur, not issur of looking at woman bec. it is not a real woman, why is it assur without hirhur.
Why should we say that when it’s not true?
What do you mean? If you are not having hirhur, your not having hirhur.
Fine, but let’s say there is no hirhur, what is the issue then? Maybe being
Megarah Yetzer Harah? Or is MYH hirhur?
DaasYochid- Rav Ovadia tz”l writes that you have to close your eyes bec. of hirhurim, not bec. of erva. That is why I said “technically”.
Also, when I asked you what my false assumptions were, I want to know if you disagree with my svara, not whether one can be mosiach daas. Also, as I said before, I belive some poskim hold “Al Tifnu” is only for idolatry. (Shulchan Aruch 307:16, Beur Halacha there) Furthermore, there is no Yeharag Al Yaavor by watching a movie bec. it is not erva and therefore there is no ?? ?????. Therefore, now it depends if you agree with my svara whether or not we need the Gemara of Darka Achrina or not. If we do, then maybe Darka Achrina is only by parnassah purposes and the like, not entertainment. But, maybe it is also for entertainment. It also obviously, would depend whether one has hirhurim. {Even Lev Darka Achrina doesn’t help if one will have hirhurim, bec. it is only when one can trust himself he won’t have hirhur}
Most yeshivas do not have a smoking problem. Also, boys and girls have other kosher outlets. A few go off the derech, a lot don’t.
I think that every day on this thread people should post a halacha about Hilchos Pesach. Obviously, one should not pasken from here but we can still learn some Hilchos Pesach. One should post the source with his halacha.
I’ll start:
Tachnun is not recited the entire month of Nissan. (Shulchan Aruch 429:2)
But it is clear from Rav Ovadiah tz”l that there is no problem,
technically, saying Krias Shema in front of an erva on a picture. The issue he writes is hirhur. Also pretty clear from Rav Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld tz”l that there is no issue of ?? ????? by a picture either. The problem Rav Zonnenfeld writes is “Al Tifnu” which I believe some poskim say only applies to idolatry.
Do you mind elaborating what my false assumptions are?
I was only quoting Rabbi Hoffman so you would have to ask him. He gives his email at the bottom of his articles.
By the way, DaasYochid, do you agree with my svara I posted before?
I don’t know Lakewood but may your wife have a refuah shliemah
DaasYochid- But lets say you can be mosiach daas. I still want to figure out if we can apply that Gemara to movies.
nolongersingle-I think there can be more of a push for leniency when it comes to movies. As I quoted before Rav Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld tz”l is lenient when it comes to a picture. So I think we can possibly get a bit lomdish. By a real woman there is an issur don’t look, you can have hirhur. But if you need to go somewhere for a good reason, then go and be mosiach daas. By a movie, there is no issur to look, it is not anything really. But what is the problem-hirhur. Stam Hirhur. Not Hirhur connected to seeing a woman. So maybe we don’t need Lev Darka Achrina and all that bec. that only applies whenever we have an actual issur of looking at woman but by a screen there is no issur of looking at woman.
This is not the best savara and doesn’t really shtim, in my opinion with the Gemara, Rav Ovadia Yosef tz”l brings down (Yechovie Daas 4:7, I cited it from Rabbi Hoffman before), but it is a possible svara.
nolongersingle-But you can say that with anything. Parnassah, you could say get another job, a stay at home job, or with medicals issues, get a new doctor. If one wants to watch a certain movie and that is what he wants to watch, then there is no other movie like that, then he has no other path.The only question is does the Gemara apply to any purpose whatsoever or only real legitimate purposes. See Tosafas Avodah Zarah 48b (disscusing idolatrous trees) where he says even if the path is longer you don’t have to take it
Wisey-
You brought up an excellent point The famous Gemara in Bava Basra
57b says that one can take a path with immodestly dressed woman if he has no other way to get to where he needs to get to. The question is, how far does this apply? Does it mean only Parnassah or Medical issues, real legitimate purposes, or even tiyulim (pleasure trips)?
DaasYochid- I think you are referring to IM YD (4:11:1) where Rav Moshe tz”l prohibits going to movie theaters because of Moshav Leitzim.
That is different then watching a movie at home. Rav Moshe does add:
?? ??? ????? ????”
“? ????’ ‘??”? ??????? ?????? ????? ?? ???’ ????? ?? ????? ??????’
That would apply even to movies at home.
It is best to read the whole teshuva:
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=922&st=&pgnum=212&hilite=
This is Purim shtick
I want to quote the conclusion from the article approved by many Rabbonim (the link I posted before)
“Accordingly, this analysis must lead to the unambiguous conclusion that smoking is clearly and unquestionably forbidden by ???? and that this should be made known to all who care about the ???? and their health.
A final note is in order: People who smoke are not, ? ”?, doing so in an attempt to flout ????. In fact, most would dearly wish to quit, but shedding an addiction is no simple matter. While it is important to make clear that ???? prohibits smoking, it is also important not to condemn those who struggle with this issue. Rather we must offer our
full help and support to aid them in their quest for physical and spiritual health.”
END QOUTE
With regard to Marijuana, Rav Moshe tz”l said it is assur for a variety of reasons. See his teshuva on it for more details or look online where his teshuva is explained in English.
It is very possible that Rav Moshe tz”l would have prohibited it now.
In 1981, the facts were not as known as how dangerous it is.
Rav Moshe’s own son-in-law, Rav Moshe Tendler, I believe says that today
Rav Moshe tz”l would prohibit it.
Tons of poskim have prohibited smoking. The poskim who permitted it, did it back then, when it was not know the terrible affects it had.
Here are contempary poskim saying assur <Taken from an article by Rabbi Yehuda Spitz> There are more then this, I believe, but this is for starters:
There have also been kol korehs out that have prohibited smoking.
Also from the article:
Smoking is terrible, besides the fact that you put other people at risk with second-hand smoke. I even once saw that third-hand smoke is also dangerous.
DaasYochid-I just don’t want some idiots to look here and see,
smoking is not so bad, just like eating too much candy.
They might then smoke, chas vesholom, and put their life in terrible danger.
Studies have been done. Just look online.
Ask any doctor, there is no comparison between eating candy and smoking.
SMOKING IS ALSO ADDICTIVE. ADDICTIVE.
DaasYochid- Your comparison to sugar and smoking,
in my opinion is absurd.
Smoking is very, very dangerous and even if you quit right away it could still have an effect on you later in life. Eating candy all day is certainly not as terrible as the effect of smoking. That is besides the fact that smoking is addictive. Even Rav Moshe tz”l says clearly it is assur to get addicted. Also, the dangers were not as known back then as they are today.
{NOTE:I do not mean that eating candy all day is not bad and terrible for your health, but I think that it does not touch base to the terrible sakanah one puts himself into by smoking}
DaasYochid-Smoking is terrible,even Rav Moshe tz”l who permitted it said it is better not to do it. Also see here, an article which tons of Rabbonim approved of, saying smoking is assur gamur:
http://www.rabbis.org/pdfs/Prohibition_Smoking.pdf
(Mods, please let this link go through, it is from many prominent Rabbis who prohibit smoking. If you can’t post the link, then please post my post without the link)
The article discusses Rav Moshe tz”l’s view.
It should be noted that Rav Moshe Tendler writes (I think, I’m not certain about this) that in light of recent studies showing the terrible affects of smoking and since less people smoke today, Rav Moshe tz”l would reverse his opinion and prohibit smoking tobacco.
Yes, the chances of dying from smoking is extremely more likely than dying from Big Gulp
So anybody who thinks smoking is assur should also think that Big Gulps are assur.
Are you being serious?
DaasYochid-What don’t you understand?
DaasYochid- This is why I see a distinction.
1) According to the poskim that hold it is a drabbanon to be ??????? ??? ???? and it is part of the issur of ?? ????? might hold that in the case of movies/picture where it is not an actual woman the drabbanon doesn’t apply.
2) Even according to the poskim that hold ??????? ??? ???? is an issur derabanon because of the possibility of hirhur would hold that live it is still prohibited because he is being ???? even without hirhur. But maybe by a movie/picture it is different because it is not an actual woman. (Assuming he won’t have hirhur.)
??????? ??? ???? would obviously lead to ?????.
I’m saying in the theoretical case where it doesn’t it might still be assur
in live. On a picture there would be more to rely on.
Obviously, that is not what we’re talking about (in any case, even live wouldn’t be a problem then).
That would depend if you hold ??????? is just an issur ????? or also an issur of ?? ?????.
But even if it is only ?????, I’m still not sure you can disregard the whole thing if it doesn’t personally lead you to hirhur. Maybe with erva (parts of body normally covered uncovered) you can do that but I don’t know about ??????? ??? ????.
Daas Yochid-Thank you for providing so many ?”?.
Getting off the yeharag al yaavor topic I do think one can make a chiluk between live and picture.
From an article by Rabbi Yair Hoffman on Shidduch Pictures (where he discusses ???????):
“One may also ask if the same prohibition would apply in a photograph as in live. The Poskim do deal with viewing it through a mirror or other medium. Rav Palaji (in Responsa Shma Avrohom #46 cited by Rav Ovadiah Yoseph in Yechave Daas 4:7) rules that it does. Rav Yoseph Chaim Zonnenfeld is cited as someone who is more lenient and differentiates between a picture and a live person if there is no chance that it could bring one to improper thoughts.”
So there is possibly more room to be lenient for movies.
I don’t want to start a new thread for this so I’m posting here.
Does anybody know which tape has Rabbi Avigdor Miller tz”l’s view on Thanksgiving? If anybody can give me the number of the tape it would be appreciated.
DY-Igros Moshe (EH 1:56) discusses the gemara in Sanhedrin.
Daas Yochid- I don’t think there is any shitta that holds it is j”ehrag al j”aavor to watch movies. Please name me one.
DaasYochid-You do agree, though, that watching movies is not bgeder yerheg v”al ya’vor.
The link you posted discusses talking to a girl, not looking at one on a screen.
Abizrayhu d’arayos means negiah and the like.
Movies has to do with shmiras einayim and hirhur.
Shmiras Einayim and hirhur are not yerheg v”al ya’vor.
True. Shabbos and kashrus aren’t yehareg v’al ya’avor; movies are.
-Daas Yochid
While I am not saying movies aren’t assur, please cite me a reason they are
yehreg v’al ya’avor.