The op made a very big assumption – namely that higher iq = more intelligent.

While i happen to think the internet is a huge problem i also think that this booklet makes lots of assertions which are simply not true and people who read it will not come away with the assumption that the people who wrote it were trying to be reasonable at all.this booklet to me is symptomatic of the past problems rabbonim have had connecting with people in regards to the dangers of the internet.

@RABBAIM Ner Yisroel is a nice yeshiva with a great learning atmosphere but is impractical for a lot of college guys – they only allow guys to take two classes per semester and the only program they have left is with towson not university of maryland. Their college program is not nearly as good as it used to be. Thats why I suggested the landers, ohr hachaim and shaar yoshuv options as those still allow 4-5 classes per semester and allow guys to finish college within a decent amount of time.

@fedup11210 @ohr chodesh it does not mean 2 coverings – it is ok to just wear the hat without the kovea katan according to the mb you just quoted. this is commonly misquoted.

@uneeq i guess you are right since they don’t appear to be reading anything besides for the first two sentences that i write anyway

@rabbiofberlin there is a machlokes as to what shirei agovim is so i am just using the moniker “inappropriate” instead but according to most you are right.

@shlishi we are talking about in a case by case basis over here and i am telling you heteirim have been given out by respectable rabbonim – primarily for business purposes and not to be used by children. this is not something which is broadcasted obviously. i personally asked my r”y before taking my present job which required having unfiltered internet and he told me to take the job.

@BaalSechel i dont agree with you i think the Debriciner is very clear on multiple places inthat tshuva that there is tnai of bfarhesya and from his antenna remark amongst others seems to imply that that is a necessary condition. the shulchan aruch is talking about the chazan singing inappropriate songs in a shul or in a beis hmishtaos etc. (look at the beir heitev and likutei megadim amongst others) – the point is that he has to be oiver an averia brabim in order to become pasul as a chazzan. it is very clear from the debreciner and from the other poskim and i dont know how u saw otherwise. i think that tv is different from internet halchically as there is no heter to have a tv and there are plenty of rabbonim who will give you heterim to have unfiltered internet. That particular issue is a more protracted one (internet v. tv) but i can assure you that a majority of american poskim do agree with me – it is a bigger nisayon and the pitfalls are greater but that does not make the person who has it a bigger baal aveira – which is what is necessary in this case.

@BaalSechel The mechutzof was responding to the op who misread the beer moshe. also after rereading the tshuva i must respectfully disagree with you – “He also says that if a person’s aquaintances know it is considered common knowledge.” while the Debreciner does say that (he actually says that the guy has to know that the rabim know) he makes additional qualifications. he says that since anyone who walks in (kol boeh baiso) can see it it is therefore considered bfarhesya. in addition he says “shei efshar lehastiro” which is again not the case with the internet – everyone just knowing it is not good enough, as the qualification is that he is being oiver bfarhesya which in the case of internet he is not – certainly over the question of whether he has a filter or not. the part about a person who has unfiltered internet in their house not being able to be chazan is your own opinion and is unsupported by the beer moshe or any other posek that i know of.

@Loyal Jew there is a vast difference between a shul deciding on its own for the qualifications of a shaliach tzibbur that fits its values and saying that no one in any shul can be a shatz in such a case.

@Tomche ” Please cite any SH’UT that disagrees with this SH’UT on what the requirements for a Shaliach Tzibbur is.” come on you have to see the flaw in that – yes everyone agrees that this is the qualification but you dont honestly think that most rabbonim hold this way even in regards to having a tv in the house.

@yichusdik i think the op was not being serious as his logic doesnt even fit into what the Debreziner Rov said at all. there is not a rov in the world who would say such a thing and he is a daas yochid in that respect – besides for maybe in the chasidish community because there maybe you would be considered a poresh min hatzibur. Although i do agree with the op on one thing – w3schools is a great learning tool.

@Tomche please read the whole discussion before you comment

@DaasYochid I dont know you at all but i am sure you can see the fallacy in that logic – many people who dont have the internet would say that if they could survive without the internet anyone could. i am not sure what makes you a better barometer of what people are willing to do. ultimately i think the success of the asifa lies in the fact that awareness of the problem and possible solutions was vastly increased. hopefully people will talk to their rabbonim and craft a solution that works for them.

@DaasYochid first of all I appreciate the fact that you actually responded to my comments as opposed to the labeling that some other posters tend to do. The problem I’m referring to is not simply inconvenience. There is a well known study that was done on people who pirate music and they found that the main reason people pirated was not cost rather it was convenience. this is why itunes has been so successful. The reason why many people buy iphones is again because it is smooth and uncumbersome. There also have been many studies on how even changing a couple of seconds in a computers startup time had a disproportionately large affect on people. We are not talking about the same kind of annoyance – davening is difficult to do but it is not nearly as annoying as trying to use a smartphone where the touch screen doesnt work properly which i think is a more apt analogy. If there are real solutions created by the Jewish community with its multitude of needs in mind then maybe it is possible. However this has not been done that well in the past – the kosher phones in the US are a perfect example of a good idea which is poorly managed. It is highly unlikely that there will be many new ones created in the secular world based on the present attitude by tech companies.

@DaasYochid ultimately the success or failure of the asifa will only be determined a couple of years down the line. I know many people who have had filters in the past who disabled or removed them for one very simple reason – they are really annoying to use. most of the people i know who had filters installed are the ones who didnt need the internet all that much anyway. an overwhelming majority do not have filters and i think that is unlikely to change.

Its actually unconstitutional because it violates the 14th amendment as it is not being applied equally. If it would apply to everyone i could see them getting away with it – i am sure this will be challenged in the courts.

@MorahRach this is one of the most important issues of our generation and you think that it is foolish that people are discussing it? You can keep your condescension.

@Chulent it happens to be that many of the rabbonim by the asifa privately disagree with rav wosner – their being there does not mean that they endorse his position nor believe that it is at all practical. Even Rav Mattisyahu did not take that position – he may wish it were possible but i would not say that it can be at all considered to be psak halacha for all. In fact I have spoken to rabbonim in Lakewood who do not go nearly that far – i think you should talk to whomever your rav is about what is the best solution for you – and i think that this is what the people who made the asifah had in mind – not to make generalized psak halachas or bans.

@Loyal Jew so it is better to not do pru urvu and be single rather than marry a guy who uses the internet – wonderful made up hashkafos.

@Naysberg R’ Belski disagrees with you as does R’ Heineman

I have personally spoken to many rabbonim and roshei yeshiva on this issue and not one agreed with you

why exactly – u assume that u are aware of everyone’s business needs – todays workstations are more than capable of handling many tasks in a secure environment through virtualization in addition much of my testing is done on a workstation especially at home.

they are very easy to knock out – install an overzealous antivirus and poof there it goes. this will only work for one time.

Lets say i am running a web scraper and the filter decides to filter out a site – can u not see how that could cause a huge monetary loss. i need to deal with a plethora of new sites and correcting the filter every time is highly impractical. in addition the market moves very quickly and there have been plenty of times where huge losses would have resulted if a website had been mistakenly blocked.

not sure which number date but i would suggest in no specific order

chelsea piers, new roc city, world financial center, dave and busters, which are all popular spots.

@yitayningwut i think the op’s original question was not necc the proper way to ask it but that does not make this thread a chillul hashem as there were some very good halachic points that were raised and i for one became much more educated on this matter as a result of this – unless u assume that discussing halacha in a public forum is a chillul hashem in which case there is not much i can say. also discussing something that is illegal according to american law’s status in halacha is a chillul hashem? since when?