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There isnt even a kinyan kesef in many cases as the money does not transfer until the seller confirms the sale. that being said ask your lor as opinions on the subject may vary.
Was listening to jroot radio at night last week and one of the callers who claimed to be “involved in the system at many levels” thought that the yeshiva system is a “bed of roses” and that the numbers of kids going otd is greatly exaggerated. He thought that the yeshiva system was perfectly fine the way it is. Unfortunately I think this typifies the feelings of a decent amount of mechanchim.
tzadik vra lo rasha vtov lo. This isn’t a new issue. Hakadosh baruch hu as a dayan takes in a lot of factors such as how a persons life or death affects the other people in his/her life and people can be kept alive even if just for the purpose of being mehane a tzadik for one second. there are a lot of more complex answers – i would suggest looking in sifsei chayim from rav friedlander zatzal for answers as he uses more contemporary language/themes to explain difficult hashkafic concepts.
sharp +1000
I also love wallflowers answer
unfortunately sometimes there is rot at the top of the food chain which prevents proper hiring from being implemented.
The concept (which has become commonplace these days) of throwing kids out of yeshivas/beis yaakovs or otherwise letting them fall through the cracks is terrible and contrary to halacha. Mechanchim either need to get a sense of achrayus or quit.
They should also drop their g-d/infallibility complex. To this day I can remember my 1st grade rebbi apologize to a kid because the rebbe had spoken to the kid sarcastically. He did this in front of the class. This only increased my respect for him.
I would agree that there are plenty of mechanchim who should not be in “the business”. There needs to be more oversight whether it is through a mashgiach or other member of the hanhala (or guidance counselor in a girls school). I have seen a couple of really bad apples in my day.
there is no reason why you should be forced to accept a substandard quality of life. Finding a mentor is a must and it does not have to be someone in the school it can be an older person you can vent to and can identify with you and give you advice. Take it from someone who has a been in a similar situation many times before.
there have been very few releases lately probably due to the economy and the fact that sameach hasnt been doing as well. mostlymusics website has been down a lot lately.
“Whether other people “battel” or not, look at your own level of learning and try to improve (working or not) – stop looking at others!”
The problem is that working guys support the system in many facets – of course they should get a say. and as i showed a previous poster there are rishonim who would not agree with our system in a situation where there is batala. you have to understand that you are in most cases being machmir on someone else’s cheshbon and unless you are serious about it, it is gezeila just like wasting time in any other job.
also many gedolim would tell you if you have kids and no money to support them that you should go to work – the problem is that many learning guys ironically do not have a rebbi and/or do not ask these questions to a rav.
They can threaten to prosecute them …. Which is what I also meant in the case of the elderly grandparents.
I personally am aware of situations where that was not the case, but even if I did agree with you it wouldn’t change the fact that if they are Jewish we have a mitzva of pidyun shvuyim regardless and it is typically smarter to be dan lkaf zchus.
The cost of defending ones self properly can be financially prohibitive especially when certain elements in the system work it to their advantage. In addition the health of the defendant can be a factor as to whether to take a case to trial. The government can threaten to bring anyone to the stand they want (elderly grandparents, wives etc.) and can completely destroy a persons livelihood and reputation. The government also works the media to get the coverage they want. Indictment and penalization by the government is not an indication of guilt in any way shape or form.
If my wife wore 4 inch stilettos she would make me look like a dwarf.
“Precisely my point. Real tzaddikim among us have a tendency of never having to face charges in the first place. It’s an interesting pattern.”
You are revealing your lack of knowledge of jewish history. Rabbonim from the chasam sofer to the lubovitcher rebbe have faced charges throughout history. The Maharam MeRutenburg was niftar in prison.
maybe we should make a chief rabbi so then we can have an election
@Nigritude Ultramarine
plenty of people take a guilty plea if they are not guilty. The prosecution can threaten all kinds of things that may make pleading guilty seem like the easier option. our justice system is neither fair nor efficient.
lakewood001 +1
@yayin yashan bkli chadash
“Someone who battels will not start learning more when he gets a job.”
I have heard from people much greater than you that this statement is incorrect.
see the meiri.
Also if someone has a set time to learn that is included in this din of harei zeh mischayiv benafsho. That is why it applies more so to yungeleit. Kach kebalti merabosai. If I have the time I will look for more mareh mkomos on the subject.
as far as seminaries are concerned we are discussing 2 different things macro and micro. macro of course they have a say in its the implementation where things go awry. A lot of mechanchos are overzealous in their charge shelo kadas ukedin.
In response to all the posters who assume that a person who batels part(s) of the day should still be in kollel ask your rav/rosh yeshiva you maybe very surprised with the answers you receive.
batala is more chamur by yungeleit read the mishna in avos I cited earlier and the meforshim there.
also the chinuch of girls in this regard is done with the hadracha of gedolim? you must be joking or seriously naive.
My wife used to make sushi salad for friday night was always a hit
there are shittos that hold that if you batel its better not to be in kollel at all. even if you are learning 7 hours a day and bateling one. its not that cut and dried. There is a major difference between bitul torah and regular batala. See the mishna in avos in perek gimmel mishna zayin (mah naeh ilan zeh harei zah mischayev benafsho).
JMH +1
I would advise anyone who is suffering from addiction or addiction like conditions and is not interested in traditional therapy to consider innate health as it seems to have been pretty successful. Mods probably won’t allow links so just google innate health or the organization tikun.
I think the BY girls looking for a guy who is going to learn forever thing is less of a trend than it used to be. The girls are looking for someone who is serious about his learning and yidishkeit which by and large tends to be the case by learning guys. Even if after five years they will be learning the same amount the training that one receives by learning before going to work in the outside world can not be understated.
The debate about whether someone who batels (part of the day) should still be in learning is a big debate I don’t really want to get into as there are many views on the subject by people much greater than me. I do believe that this is what notsoyeshivish was probably referring to.
I do think that many BY girls and BMG guys do have more of a realization that they may have to work eventually and that there is a responsibility to support a family.
The fact is there is a certain amount of people that are meant to work and that is their tafkid. And there is nothing wrong with that. To say otherwise is kefirah. Kach Keblati Meirabosai.
the point is that it wasn’t just the ramabam – everyone had a job back then and the current situation is completely unprecedented.
my wife put me on a no soda diet 🙁
been drinking raspberry lime seltzer all day
DaasYochid you are right
raichayim brosho vyasok btorah?
The problem with akuperma’s post is very simple. It employs a “they are wrong so therefore we must be right” attitude which seems to be pretty commonplace (and disturbing to me). Besides for the fact that his point had absolutely no relevance at all to the op. As I have said before in this forum the problem isn’t that there are no public statements by rabbonim on specific situations – the problem is that there are never any comments at all on the situation at all. The only comment I have seen was from Rav Gershon Edelstein. I have yet to see a single poster here explain why or provide any semi- legitimate explanation.
Not sure why everyone is getting so excited. most likely this psak was lo haya vlo nivra. wouldn’t be the first such made up psak and as I said earlier rav karelitz disagrees with this supposed “psak” in his own sefer making it much less likely the psak is real.
dont believe everything posted in the comments section of a jewish website
zahavasdad had a case of doublepostitis
I think its a pretty big chiddush that we assume everyone who has a smartphone loses his chezkas kashrus. Having a smartphone does not make one an avaryan to my knowledge.
The whole story on ynet seems a bit unclear. It does not seem from a simple reading of the story that the store owner or the man actually went to rav karelitz’s beis din. Seems to be a very poor piece of journalism.
@zahavasdad I don’t believe the psak (by Rav Karelitz) was given. It seems to be a perversion of what he wrote in chut shani but there he says explicitly that the person needs to be chashud for davar hassur for it not qualify for hashava. He does say that it does not require hachraza which I will not pretend to understand but that is a far cry from saying there is no chiyuv hashava where the baalim are known. I will give you a link to the mareh hamakom not sure if the mods will post it – http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46218&st=&pgnum=335.
apushatayid +1
fully agree with everything you said. guides were never meant to take the place of a rav or be the final say. halachic guides in general tend to be more machmir so people don’t get confused and so that the author isnt nichshol anyone.
sorry for the reading fail. and it actually has evolved quite a bit in the past five years through a combination of factors including new rebbeim and the hanhala having the ability to be more selective of who they take (because of the increase in applications).
the dynamic of rav schlangers yeshiva has changed over the years. It is significantly more yeshivish than when any of your husbands friends went there. The yeshiva has become a lot more in demand than it used to be.
TA has gone through a couple of interesting phases and I feel are still trying to shed the “community school” identity. It has moved significantly to the right but is still the least yeshivish out of the three. It definitely has great and extremely warm rabbeim though.
@Health I have yet to find a chinese place in the area that compares to David Chu.
Rav Schlangers yeshiva has a dorm and has out of towners
I wouldnt say that ner and and rav schlangers are that similar. Schlangers specifically wants to stay small and seems to have a lot more hadracha. Ner is really big and wants to get bigger. Its not as warm of an environment and kids can become just another number there. I would also say that the student body of rav schlangers is a lot more yeshivish than ner. Secular studies program is a drop better at ner as the one in rav schlangers is basically non-existent but at least they are accredited – when the yeshiva started you had to get a GED.
have you ever learned any history?
If you want a more Jewish perspective read R’ Berel Wein. You would not be making comments like this if you had. There are other wonderful frum Jewish historians who can enlighten you – you seem to have fallen in to the trap of believing things because you want them to be true. You remind me of zacharnu es hadaga sheachalnu bimitzrayim. Your knowledge (or lack there of) of Turkish politics is similarly amusing. Also how is the fogel story (hy”d) zionist propoganda? They do have a different culture which places a very different valuation on human life. Learn a bit about the history of Islam and how it developed and you might be singing a very different tune.
my rosh yeshiva was very against guys wearing shorts.
As I said before to another poster I have no idea where you got the idea of the lo sasuru being just by a man from. Additionally the reason men are separated by a mechitza from women is a dirabanan according to everyone but rav moshe zatzal. And R’ Moshe’s shita wont help your cause for obvious reasons. There is a concept of kol ish according to rav yehuda hachasid and the bach held that kol isha was only by a married woman! Assuming that the issur of kol has anything to do with looking is a bad assumption as it seems that many poskim did not hold that way. Basically your whole house of cards is based on a lot of halachically faulty assumptions.
“jewishfeminist2: the issur is on shmiras habris so, in regards to this taava it is irrelevant what thoughts a woman has when she looks at a man.”
you are simply incorrect. women have an issur of lo sasuru just as much as a man and it has nothing to do with shmiras habris. those are two separate inyanim. The issue of tznius similarly is not just about lo sasuru or taiva. Even if you are by yourself there is a chiyuv for both men and women to be properly covered.
would post some links to hebrewbooks.org but there is a thread on this in the coffee room already. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/lo-taturu-and-women
pidyon haben? I am really curious.
figured you couldn’t have eaten shor habar 4 time in your life
nothing ever works for me – I feel pretty horrible no matter what I eat usually after a fast. probably will just eat some toast and pray for the best.
It really depends on your age/maturity in learning. To me the subject/masechta doesnt matter as much. If this chavrusa is causing you to battel/waste time than of course it is better to learn on your own. Otherwise I feel that there is a lot of value to learning with any chavrusa regardless of level of intelligence Mikol Melamdai Hiskalti etc. This is question is really more dependent on your level of learning and your personal situation and I would advise asking a rebbi.
I have no problem with women responding to this thread – this is a public forum and I am sure the op anticipated that. I would have no problem discussing this type of thing with my wife.
people still wear crocs?
love the subtitles keep up the good work
where did you see the oz vehadar mesivta for that price – I would get it in a second
inshidduchim.com is hilarious
if you find out that its cheaper I would love to know.
pacing doesnt bother me so much. Singing loudly off key or clapping during learning on the other hand is really annoying.