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@derechhamelech
There is no “generally” that you claim is assur. Each person should consult his own Rav whether or not they should go. Do you have a problem with that? You can’t pasken out of a sefer unless you are a…posek. You might think you know what it’s saying but you might not. and I’d like you to show me where TMB said that.
Are you saying that your wife went to college, but her job doesn’t require the education or that she didn’t actually go to college?
If so you are very lucky and I hope that it continues. But please realize your case is very rare. But one more thing-do you pay full tuition? Because if you don’t than you are being indirectly supported by people with a college education, and have no right to question the decision’s of those who do.
TMB-
Yeah I totally didn’t get that.
Smartcookie-
I was thinking that as well, but I didn’t want to seem that far out. I too hope this isn’t true but the more posts I see the more it makes sense. He definitely was frum at some point because he knows too much about yeshivas and such. If it is true, you should just know TMB, that one can always return.
TMB
Still to afraid to answer me, it seems like you are maybe starting to backtrack? Are you saying that college isn’t ideal, but necessary for some people? If that is your opinion, than I wholeheartedly agree. But that would actually make sense so probably not.
You have no answers for my logic.
Stop being afraid to answer back.
yeah I didn’t think you were serious. I’m wondering if TMB is extremely MO and his whole TMB character is a satire on how extreme some people can be.
just a thought.
TMB
I think you should talk to a kiruv Rabbi.
It would do you some good. I am 100% serious. maybe get some advice if that is really what you are trying to accomplish. I commend your intentions if you are serious. I think the first thing he will teach you is you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
He’ll also correct your hashkafa on college but lets not get into that:-)
Great idea!lol that would stop Pants+Skirt=Shidduch .
But seriously, the girl pays for the majority of the wedding.
I know it’s annoying to pay ridiculous amounts for parking and $5 sodas but… man up. You are responsible for supporting your wife not 50/50.
I definitely don’t agree with anyone who thinks everyone HAS to go to college. I strongly approve of kollel and the majority of those in it are great people and are doing it lshem shamayim. However, it’s frankly just insulting and demeaning when I go to college under the tutelage of daas torah, and someone comes along and says that it is assur. Especially if they are supported by someone who went to college.
You really ruin the reputation of those sincere people in kollel and you do untold damage to limud torah.
Imagine how many people saw these posts or heard people talking and will think twice chas v’shalom about giving to learning if they mistakenly think that most kollel members think that what they are doing is assur Not just Mikehall, but others who aren’t 100% behind the kollel system. At best they think they are Kafui Tov at worst they think kollel members are a bunch of hypocrites.
Hashem Yeracheim
I am so impressed with you. You seem to really fulfill vahavta lreacha kamocha to the fullest. and probably no one can be dan lkaf zchus like you. You really are the paradigm of what a Yid should be. You can definitely dish out mussar. Your one possible weakness may be that you can’t respond to it.
@charliehall-
I agree with you that he is more moderate, I was just trying to come up with the best comparison I could think of who basically all agree is a gadol, but don’t necessarily agree with him.
This whole argument about what produces Gedolim is kind of ridiculous. Yes, the places which learn all day will likely produce more gedolim because the ones who go to Yeshiva-college are going to work! Does that mean work is assur?
That is the real logical fallacy.
@tryingmybest-
I don’t know if you are trying to ignore me or more likely you don’t have any good way of answering my post, but once again, I am very curious to know if you support a family, and if you don’t; did the person who supports you go to college?
You can quote all the seforim you want, but you need today’s Rabbonim to lead you and help you interpret halacha. Each person should ask his posek if they should go to college if they get the urge, and listen to him.
As a side note- if you did not hear of R’ Lichtenstien, it is purely because of ignorance. I and many others may not follow his halacha, but much like R’ Kook in his time, he definitely is a gadol.
@derechhamelech
I in fact went to one of the yeshivas whose views you claim you represent. I went to college (a touro type institution) as a necessary evil and consulted my Rabbeim every step of the way. These days college is a necessary evil in the same way that the job itself is, though it’s not just for a doctor but for most jobs. the evil isn’t as much the hashkafas that are talked about as much as it is time spent not learning. I really don’t think I have a problem with what you are saying, rather those (and I think tryingmybest has this view and correct me if I’m wrong) who say college is assur for everyone no matter what.
Care to respond to my post?
Kitniyos is 100% assur on pesach!
That is what alot of you sound like. If your Rav holds that college is assur-then great. I don’t think there are many today who would make such a blanket statement, and more would evaluate each person individually, but either way, there are legitimate Rabbonim who hold otherwise. Are any of you poskim? I don’t think so. This is such a ridiculous argument. Who cares whether or not there are current gedolim who went to college? The requirements of being a Gadol don’t require college. There aren’t any Gedolim who are mechanics. Does that mean it’s assur to be a mechanic. (I’d also like to mention that I don’t know many gedolim who have internet.)
A lot of you are displaying tremendous ignorance. Maybe when R’ Moshe made that speech, college was only needed for getting a Cadillac but nowadays just paying for the basics and tuition alone is incredibly hard to do without college.
Just who do you think you are? How many of you models of perfection are supporting a family without having gone to college? How many of you aren’t being supported either directly or indirectly by people who went to college?
If you are than you have zero right to speak. Would you take money from someone who made their money in drugs or worse? Then why are you taking this money? You are just providing incentive for more people to go to college.
I’m going to be dan l’kaf zchus and assume that most of you are 15, and wish you much Hatzlacha when you get older.
There are more kids born each year bh than the previous year. So if let’s say there were (for simplicity’s sake) 100 boys and 100 girls born in 1987,and the boys from that year marry girls born in 1990. But in 1990 there were 120 boys and 120 girls born , leaving over 20 girls. I also think something unaccounted for is that there are unfortunately a lot of boys who either go off the derech or at least lead a lifestyle where they aren’t thinking of marriage until they are much older, much more so than girls.
I’d love to know how many people who are saying you don’t need to go to college to support a family, ARE actually supporting a family without having gone to college vs. some shnook who thinks money grows in his totty’s wallet. Yes it’s definitely possible (Bill Gates never went to college), but it’s quite unlikely with the cost of tuition, yomim tovim, etc.