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“If i were getting married then yes i would invite him not because i like him but because it is the proper thing to do if u invite some u should invite all”
True. So this guy is guilty of not doing the right thing and/or not worrying about other people’s feelings. It’s upsetting that there are people like that out there, unfortunately many. But it’s clearly not a case where someone who you thought was your friend excluded you.
The only way to find out the truth is only after the wedding. Next time you see him at work, wish him mazel tov and if he doesn’t ask where you were or why you couldn’t make it, etc. then you’ll have your answer
“Is it possible it got lost in the mail ? of course, but i know this person and i know he didnt want me at the wedding”
If that’s what you think, then even if you had gotten an invitation, why would you want to go?
If you had been making a wedding first, would you have invited him?
Are you truly insulted or it’s just the principle? Do you have as much to do with this baal simcha as the rest of your co-workers? Were they invited to the full wedding or just the chupa? Weddings are expensive and it’s come to a point where people stop inviting people “just because”.
I had a neighbor complaining to me how much his wedding was going to cost and I told him, “why do you have to invite anyone you say hello to? You don’t have to invite me just because I’m your neighbor”….and you know what, He didn’t. and I was very happy not to have to shlep out of obligation.
But to answer the original posters questions:
1.unusually bad breath…you shouldn’t be that close, although dry mouth could be a sign of nerves
2.wrinkled clothing…only if there’s a reason. ie.raining or from sitting in the car too long
3.laughing too loudly in public…some people call that bubbly and that would depend if what you said warranted a good laugh
4.acting bored in your presence…you won’t get the chance to say no, the bored one will probably beat you to it.
5.chewing bubble gum on a date…any gum is bad
None of these are bad enough to look back in a few years, if you’re still single, and think back about the ones you let go for stupid reasons.
HEY! Why is this only against the guys. I’ve had my share of some unkempt girls as well.
Bored
Greasy hair
Big hole in her pantyhose (on her knee)
Miss Kvetchkup
Miss Gassy (yes, in the car!)
Miss Food-Stuck-In-Her-Teeth
Miss Wearing- Waaaay- Too-Much-cheap perfume
Miss doesn’t take care of her Nails/man hands
I went out with alot of classy girls but there are some with issues as well.
AinOhdMilvado:
The “blue-covered Chumashim with the linear translations of Rash”i” were the Pentateuch chumashim. Much more legible than Artscroll.
phillybubby:
Hold the pickles, hold the lettuce, etc. was Burger King.
McDonald’s was,
“You deserve a break today, so get up and get away to McDonald’s”
Remember…
“Baseball, Hot Dogs, Apple Pie and Chevrolet”
BRUT! by Fabrege
Madge soaking in Palmolive
Mr. Whipple: Please don’t squeeze the Charmin
Thank you real-brisker, well said.
Just be yourself. For example, if you start talking about art when you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about, that’s being fake cultured.
It actually was “yasherkoiach”…after a game of scrabble.
Sorry, girls speaking yeshivish is in a totally different league. Like my friend who told me a girl asked him on a date, “so, do you shtelzuch on the rishoinim?”
“Firstly, the girls end it far more than 50% of the time”
If you’re right than that may be part of the problem.
Ofcourse,
I don’t think it’s mostly the looks. I dated many very pretty girls but I said no, mostly because they were dull, quiet, preachy, fake frum (one said to me “yasherkoach”).
The quality of CD’s aren’t much better than the records were. They also get scratched and skip.
Kids today don’t know the meaning of the saying “stop repeating yourself like a broken record”. They don’t know the meaning of “the phone is off the hook”. To kids, the cordless phones are always “off the hook” and still work.
well meaning busy body, The Edsel was a car named after Henry Ford’s son Edsel and went down in history as one of the biggest lemons
Remember the tape recorders with the reels
Remember the super 8 movies with no sound. My father paid over $1000 for our first VCR
Remember when 7-11 first opened up, they were only open from 7am-11pm. No such thing as a 24 store.
Remember filling up gas by pulling down the license plate in the back
What’s all the fuss about? I agree that tuition is outrageous and I’m one who has “bared all” to get a break (never bank statements)
But…where does everyone get off saying that we shouldn’t have to cut corners.
Especially you, showerzinger
“Vacations are a necessity, camp is a necessity, good food is a necessity”…you mean school isn’t? Do you call the utility company to get a break? Do you negotiate at the grocery store?
Do you call the sleep away camps for a break? (which btw, @over $2000 for a half summer has gotten out of hand)
If you do the math, 28 days of camp is costing you about $75 a day, where approx 230 days of school is costing you about $35 a day (full tuition) Be happy that there’s even an option of a break.
I hear people complaining about money and tuition all the time yet they don’t hesitate to ie. drive cars that cost $400-$500 a month, as opposed to $300-$400 a month; vacations that cost a fortune; landscapers, take-out food for shabbos, home renovations, etc.
None of these are necessities. You don’t NEED a fancier car, you don’t NEED to take your kids to Orlando, make your own coleslaw & potato kugel and buy cold cuts in the package. Have the landscaper come every other week instead of every week.
I’m sure most of you here grew up with less “luxuries” or what you’re calling “necessities” than we’re living with today.
I’m very sorry to hear your story. Best of luck and I hope you’re able to maintain a good relationship with your children.
That being said, that’s another big no-no. If you think you’re going to marry someone and change them, ie. make them frumer or the opposite or anything else for that matter, It Ain’t Gonna Happen! and you’re headed for disaster and disappointment.
Thank you AinOhdMilvado.
and btw, I’d have to say that the majority of marriages, especially in the frum world (no I don’t know the statistics) are because they never should have gotten married in the first place
Marriage is a give and take, period. What I’ve always asked people before they start going out is, “I know you want to get married, but do you want to BE married”. Forget all the fireworks, the excitement of telling everyone you’re engaged, the “lovey dovey” first year, the superficial things like looks or money. When the smoke of passion clears, it’s real life.
Bottom line, you’re going to live with this person every single day, for the rest of your life. You’re not going to find perfection, you WILL fight at times. It’s all normal. To me love is secondary, the key is developing a true friendship. That alone is what builds a solid foundation and is the glue that can keep you together.
As far as a Rov, of course it’s good. As long as he’s the type of Rov that knows how to give people the advice that they need. Not just a generic solution for everyone.
First of all the age should definitely not be an issue. The weight? Why don’t you go and see for yourself. That being said, you’re 26 and you haven’t gone out yet?! That is something that might be a strike against you. Don’t add any more strikes by being the guy that said no after saying yes, but before meeting.
If not for anything else, it’s time you get your feet wet. What’s the worst that can happen?
I got a silver becher with my name engraved on the plate. I still use it after 18 years. A silver esrog box (you might want to wait till sukkos)
…and if you want to start, why not have them stop wasting money on renting costumes. Throw on your mothers old shaitel with a couple other knick knacks and you got a costume. People don’t give more money based on the costume. Are there any other Ebenezer Scrooges out there who want to take the fun out of Purim?
I’d rather see the boys sitting in Limos than hanging out of the back of a U-haul truck drunk. Now that’s dangerous.
Everyone has good points. But if you want to make a stink out of this, maybe say that the yeshivos wouldn’t have to be collecting as much money if all the parents would pay tuition in full and on time. Why do people have to drive the fanciest leased cars for $500-$600 a month instead of driving cheaper ones for $300-$400 a month. An extra $200 a month that the yeshiva could get. I could go on, but the topic here seems to be fancy cars.
Woa, I’m confused. The boy is from Chicago, learns in Baltimore and he’s a Yankee fan?
Get him tickets to a Yankee game. There are plenty of games before and after pesach during his bein hazmanim
Technically, the yeshiva bachurim that are looking for respect will end up in Kollel
I think the rabbonim that were saying that the learning men don’t have to take out the garbage, were mostly referring to the ones that are constantly learning and rather have the wife do it vs. telling the husband to be mevatel from learning. I’m talking about the guys that never miss a seder, the guys that rarely go to a simcha and even if they do, they’re sitting in a corner learning, the guys that are even learning bein hazmanim and not going on vacation. Being in kollel doesn’t automatically put you on that madrega and give you that heter. …and I challenge anyone to find me rov that will say otherwise.
Of course yeshiva bochurim are respected. The ones that are seriously learning and also respect others. Not the ones who…
*wake up late and “roll” into first seder
*ditto for second seder and night seder
*posting opinions here in the coffee room in the middle of seder
*don’t respect baal habatim unless they need to squeeze us for money to support them
*tell baal habatim that they can’t get their kids into certain yeshivas if the father is working and/or “chas v’shalom” wears a colored shirt, etc…and this is just the tip of the iceberg
I think I can speak for everyone by saying that the true blue guys that really sit and learn are truly respected.
Lefties don’t need to be taught how to put on tefillin anymore than a righty who has never done it either. There was no special training for anything. It all comes natural.
Btw JayMatt19, your son is already showing the signs of a lefty by being a smart and attentive kid. As smart and inquisitive as all my kids are, I don’t think they ever asked me why I use my left hand. Nor did they attempt or want to copy me.
Wow! I never thought I’d hear of this as being an issue; and it only will be if you make it into one. Being the only lefty in my family, I felt different in a special way. I don’t remember it ever being a problem in anything I’ve ever done. I don’t recall ever having any obstacles whatsoever. Whether it was feeling different around other people, using any tools or utensils or anything for that matter. I’m as left handed as they come and I wear my tefillin on the right hand (knot on shel yad is on the opposite side) The only question will be, as he approaches his bar mitzvah, how fully left handed he is. If he does even one major activity right handed, ask a shaila which hand to put tefillin on. Seeing his “Mommy” using a fork with her right hand shouldn’t effect him. Make him feel special.
Been there, done that. I dated 6 times, broke up, dated again a year later. We’ve been happily married for almost 20 years. The question is
a) how long did you date?
b) why did you break up?
Obviously if you’re willing to go out again, it was for something not too important. Definitely don’t pretend like you never met. If you’re looking to have an open and honest relationship, why would you want to have that uncomfortableness? It can only be an ice-breaker and it might be the beginning of the rest of your life. If you want to break off the awkardness, make it more of a light conversation, maybe even joke about it.(tastefully)
Good luck
Oh wow! the dr’s and dentists must’ve really looked forward to you shlepping you’re kids to all you’re appointments. Were the older ones in the labor room with you when you had the younger ones? I’m more concerned about what kind of a mother-in-law you’ll be if you can’t let your kids go. There’s something called loving too much. and I guess if your kids ever get the crazy notion when they’re married to take a vacation, they’ll have to look to the other grandparents to watch their kids.
I do agree that going away and leaving your kids on a regular basis could be a bit much. But never?! and never to have a sleepover or go to camp? If you never let them and they wanted to, that’s a problem. They might be harboring resentment towards you, especially since most of their friends do. If they had no interest, also a problem. Socially. What kind of a fort are you building? Aside from the unconditional love and support we’re supposed to give them; we’re also supposed to teach them a little independence for the future. Let them out a little and spread their wings. I’m feeling claustrophobic just thinking about it. I’m the first person to say that family comes first, but it sounds to me that this is a bit much. Pardon me for being so bold but you’re creating the classic “momma’s boy” or girl.
BTW, if you are considering camp, make sure your child (or you) is absolutely sure. The camps don’t give a refund if you back out the last minute or if they’re homesick in the middle.
…and to answer the original question, tell the kids the truth. They’re smarter than you think. It’s worse to just make them wonder where you are. We went away to eretz yisroel for a week when my son was 3. His teacher actually made a point of giving him little prizes each day that we were gone. It was a very nice gesture that you might want to think of doing yourself. They’ll end up being more excited about the prizes and forget that you’re away.
estherhamalka, I may be out of line but I’m sensing someone who might be stifling their kids (& husband) a bit. Kids especially the ages of yours, would not feel abandoned if you went away for a week. They might even enjoy the extra “grandparents pampering”. If done wisely the whole thing could be a win-win situation for all. Do you let your kids go to sleep away camp? or to sleep at a friend for shabbos? or do you feel it’s also not right because a child must be at his Mommys side 24/7? The kids that don’t go (if you can afford it) are usually the one’s that aren’t well adjusted. Going on a little vacation or taking a little break is by far not shirking one’s responsibilities. Sounds like you would even decline an invitation to a weekend affair in a hotel. and btw, I don’t go on a yearly vacation and hardly ever leave my kids. But not for those reasons
Come on people. Your making a big deal out of nothing. There have always been the “rules of dating” that everyone adheres to. It’s almost rehearsed. But it changes with the times. Back in my days (late 80’s) You unlocked the door on her side (with the key), opened the door for her, (closing the door was optional) she then either unlocked the auto locks or reached over and unlocked the button. Nowadays 99% + of cars all have the remote, and I’m sure the “unlocking the door” part isn’t even in the “dating handbook” anymore. I’m sure that the majority of people don’t even open the car doors for their wives regularly so don’t knock the girl for lousy manners. I’m sure it didn’t even occur to her.
To Lia who wrote:
To JustMyOpinion, i learned not to judge by the cover. One never knows what is really going on in someone else’s life and it’s not our business.
If you noticed, my opening statement was:
“I realize that Memo’s question was an innocent one”.
I was responding to all the arguments regarding whether it was needed or not or how people’s “needs” have grown.
The original question here was:
“Do young married couples get housekeepers for a day a week??”
not, “I need a housekeeper”. That is none of our business to judge.
That being said and with the economy being what it is, I have to assume that MOST young married couples in Israel are being supported by their parents. When the parents are shelling out money that they probably don’t have, I don’t think a housekeeper should be at the top of the priority list of 2 young “strong” people to clean an apartment that is not huge at all.
Especially when they all think that everyone HAS TO HAVE a Bugaboo for $1000
…and btw, they shlep everything else from America, why not bring a regular mop. You don’t have to do sponja.
I realize that Memo’s question was an innocent one, however I must say that I hear where BP Totty is coming from. The younger generation of today have set very high standards for themselves and then when the expenses of real life kick in (once the expected parental support has stopped)the “luxury” has now become a necessity. Whether you can afford it or not, the peer pressure alone makes everyone need to be like everyone else.
“Who doesn’t have a cleaning lady @least 3 times a week?”
“Who does their own laundry anymore?”
“Who drives a late model car anymore? “Everyone leases a new one every 3 years”.
“Who doesn’t go to Miami @least once a year?”
“Most people now hire someone to learn with their sons every night instead of doing it themselves”
Need I go on?
In the old days, there were the few rich families and there were the rest of us. We as kids pitched in to clean the house, we had older cars, didn’t always get to go on vacation, etc, etc…
and no one was embarrassed about it either. Now if you don’t have all these things which are supposedly the norm, you have to feel like your second class.
You do seem to be getting the point and none of this is not “yashrusdik”. You’re right regarding serious issues, however it’s so tough out there these days that you wonder what really are the issues? You want a nice person that will treat you well and have the same values as you do (give or take). Marriage has been and always will be about compromising.
I dated a girl once who straight out asked me (on the 2nd or 3rd date) “When you watch a video do you fast forward the bad parts?” Of course my answer was, “No, I rewind it and watch it again”
Do you really think that question deserved a serious answer?
Memo said: what info would ppl tolerate that would be best said later in a serious relationship-b4 they get engaged?
Anything that you TRULY feel is not going to make a difference in a marriage. I know someone (happily married) that said, “If I would’ve known he didn’t have a high school diploma I never would have gone out with him.
As I said before, I’m sure most people out there could say, “If I would’ve known” they may have never even given the other a fair shot.
Aries, I’d have to say witholding info is pretty close to lying if you think it’s something that the person would want to know. Unless you agree with Bill Clinton.
Memo, why would anyone in their right mind answer even a direct question truthfully before you’ve even met them or have just met, knowing that it will result in a definite “TAKE A HIKE”. Most people aren’t lying, they’re just trying to get their foot in the door.
Sadly, this is yet another reason that there is a “shidduch crisis” and clearly it seems that most of the posters here are girls. You have to define what a lie is. Do you think even the shadchanim aren’t telling some white lies before and during the dating just to get things moving along? I can tell you that unless it’s something important or life altering, for example health issues or some serious indiscretions in your past, there’s nothing wrong with witholding info or bending the truth a bit, IN THE BEGINNING. At the end of the day if you’d have ALL the facts from the get go, I’m sure many happily married people today would never have gone out with each other. If not telling something right away is just till “we get to know each other and then I’ll tell the truth”, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Most of the time when you already like someone you can be more forgiving.
I was referring to a situation where someone is a regular customer of a bakery and for example is told that the other bakery has better or cheaper challah, not only was it a lost sale, they may have caused the permanant loss of a customer. Are we not allowed to tell regular customers of other stores our opinion? Had you told the lady to go to a better or cheaper ice cream store, I’d understand your guilt. Here you by no means “robbed” them. If you do end up compensating them, in my opinion, I wouldn’t call it restitution, I’d call it tzedakah. (not that there’s anything wrong with it)
Wow! It’s very impressive that you care so much. First of all, you said “I suggested that she purchase something else instead”, assuming you meant “something else” from that store, then you definitely did your duty. However, if you still feel that you owe the store money, you might want to think back to all the times that you (not necessarily you) may have told someone “go to this bakery, they have better challah or go to the other store this week they have (blank) on sale, etc, etc. How many times have we all innocently told someone about a better deal elsewhere, thereby causing another store the loss of a sale. Do we now owe money to these stores for the loss of sales?
Firstly, as a smoker, ex-smoker and smoker again (a few times), don’t assume that most level headed people who are smokers aren’t aware of the dangers of smoking and don’t want to stop. I’d love to meet the idiot that came up with this horrible pastime to begin with. However what I don’t get is why it seems to be everyone’s mission (mostly never-smokers) to raise prices, put pictures on packs and who knows what else. True, banning smoking in indoor public places was a necessity as it could be dangerous to others. Other than that, it’s my choice to be stupid. Don’t punish us smokers for falling into the trap. Can we start campaigning in public places to put ads for soap/deoderant/showers for those that smell bad who aren’t smokers? Can we start hiking up the prices on all junk food and putting pictures of obese people and clogged arteties on the packages or in front of all the “healthy” fast food stores? ie. kosher delight, schnitzi’s, schwarma places etc. How would you all feel if the govt. would start forcing the stores to charge $20 for a burger and $10 for fries. We’d all eat healthier wouldn’t we. My point? i appreciate my loved ones or even strangers for that matter, telling me “you should quit”, but this is getting out of hand.
Interesting points everyone. However, the question isn’t why the kid is thrown out as much as how did the parents and/or yeshiva let it get to that point? Regarding the parents, there are many sad reasons why they don’t see it. But the teachers? You want to say that they’re underpaid and under educated? How much the Rebbeim get paid or if it’s on time is a separate issue. But when they choose to go into “chinuch”, they know they wont be getting six figures. (or close to it) As far as education, as a parent, I don’t expect them to have a masters or a phd, but one thing I do expect is that they should have compassion. Don’t treat a kid differently just because he’s not a top student. I expect them to be smart enough to see a problem as it’s developing. If they can’t handle it, notify someone else who can. Instead what do they do? Kick them out of class everyday, have them write “lines”. 1000 times, I will not…yeah that works. When I was in high school thirtysome yrs ago, I wasn’t doing well in gemara and I went to the Rebbe “crying” out for help. His response? “You don’t really want to learn, you wanna, wanna learn”. End of discussion. No suggestions, no nothing. He didn’t have to be paid any better or have a better education to have tried to inspire me even a little bit more (no that line wasn’t enough) No that didn’t cause me to go off the derech at all but I always remember his lack of compassion.
If you take upon yourself minhagim that isn’t a contradiction to your other minhagim, what’s wrong with that? I saw other people bentching their kids every Fri. night and thought it was a nice minhag. I took that upon myself when I had kids. My father didn’t do that nor does he have a problem with it.
However it’s a shame when one drops minhagim that he grew up with. (ie. the yeshivishe guys that came from a chassidishesh background and now scoff at their fathers minhagim)
OK minyan gal, I stand corrected. I don’t pass many churches lately. Although I did say “l’havdil”. BTW, I’m assuming we’re talking about Shabbos. Weekdays even the frumest are a little more lax. The point is that in a Young Israel type shul that I stop in to from time to time, where I’ll be the first to admit that some of them are as frum as the next guy, I’ve seen many of them dressed up during the week to go to work or attend a wedding(so they clearly own suits and ties) but shabbos show up to shul in khakis, dockers and casual shirts. Is this the worst thing? No, but it almost seems like a slap in the face. (“TGIF, I can’t wait to get out of this suit and put on my beach clothing to go to shul”) I don’t think the Rabbi would get much resistance if he brought up the sanctity of shul/standing in front of your “real boss” in what they will agree is their “best” clothing.
You are right. However one man can’t change a whole shul. The point here is that these people that dress for shul as if it’s supposed to be a relaxed, casual atmosphere, would never show up for work dressed that way, let alone to an “interview” or more. I don’t think there would be resistance if the Rabbi would tell them to come to shul in respectable attire, comparing it to, say, your “weekly review with your boss”. It’s not about the colors but in every religion, there’s “dressed up” and “dressed down”. I hate to say this but l’havdil the goyim that go to church on Sundays always show up in their “Sunday best”. If they can do it….