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A roommate of mine in Lakewood once semi facetious only ,put it ,Moshe came down the mountain,then was the Rambam ,then came RebChaim
From the Ridvaz to R’Yaakov Kamenetzky many have held it was overstressed or moreYosef,
Which yeshiva was that?
Most of that era(presuming the ’90s or beginning 21st century )overstressed it absurdlyAs many great men each their own inimitable styles said about Rav Kook
His dear Ahavah was ‘Mikalkeles es hashurah ‘and led him to veer a off alittleRav Ahron Soloveichik said that his brother was chozer/retreated and revised virtually everything he had held by mid ’70s from his previous positions on Zionism as well as many others topics . it is actually pretty clear from his writings and interviews that he did.
For the many who find that too inconvenient,they have an easy out..just claim his later disciples were the guilty revisionists‘
Financial or.psychological
R’Kalonymus Kalman Shapiro of Piasetshna, the legendary rebbe of the Warsaw Ghetto who refused to escape without his followers and was murdered by the Nazis in Treblinka in 1943, was himself one of the most creative Hasidic minds of the 20th century. According to “Hasidism,” however, Shapiro “agreed with many of the critiques of Hasidism as a movement that lost its original spirit and animating mysticism, becoming instead a rigid social framework devoid of any vitality.”
A good read, though [more than] a bit simplistic
“Until a REAL GADOL arises in Klal Yisroel ”
While there could be some validity to that,
Problem is the ones who raise those complaints are invariably the ones who attack the GADOL when he attempts to take on challenges in a way even slighty at variance with their interests /desiresThe destruction of first Beis HaMikdash ,First Temple for the YCT oriented commenters ,and harsh judgement meted out for the many righteous and prophets in the generation, was because there was Too much tolerance and acceptance of evil /evildoers and desecration of the 3 Chamuros
cf. Kovetz Ma’amarim‘“Orthodox rabbi” means a rabbi who is Orthodox, not a rabbi of an Orthodox
community ‘
So anyone is entitled to dub themselves with any term they choose, even when their Actions and Platform are in flagrant opposition to what the said Term inherently stands for?!Try that in any other religion! Try that in any other aspect of Life!
That is called a
1)Traitor
2)fifth columnist
or
an
3) spy infiltratedRefoelz, The Gemara in Chelek clearly states Arayos L’hachas
Furthermore, in another Gemara says, if one buys intentionally treifa meat in a place where kosher meat is equally available that is L’chachas.surely if he flaunts it!The Chazon Ish said ,that only an proactive balance of active vociferous unbridled hate of practitioners of evil & their apologists, in tandem with Ahava for the good, unflinching righteous people will bring an end to this exile and the redemption ,finally.
Statistics of general society show, that victims of abuse who go to the army, do better in life than those who do not.
Is there something we can create to copy that?
Are there some things we can glean from this?L.et’s just file a religious chap.11 already!
CTRebbe,
One who makes sarcasms here falls within the rubric of Rabbenu Yonah Shaar Gimmel ‘s Leitzonim
amongst the worst of groupingsTruly terrible. Not one person has elicited even a single word for the cannibals of New Guinea. Where is everybody? They are true mumrei l’ta’avon and tinokos shenishba.
So unfair.
Rav Shlomo Wolbe was very into kiruv .
A fella once accosted Rav Shlomo Wolbe and said he is willing to be observe everything else with the exception of .. Rav pointed his finger up to a tall roof and told him unhesitatingly ” jump off”!Zdad, refoelz,
Banging away variations of same lie like Goebbels makes something more okay?!
Zdad,
“Anyone dealing with an At Risk comnunity is going to have to deal with difficult things”
Discussed already .Enjoy being irrelevant?
Nice though for a foil
Kiruv is for Tinokos She’nishba who aren’t flaunting their identity ,and in cahoots with others promoting their sinful choices
NO one who chooses to call themselves Orthodox *&^*” are Tinokos she’nishba!!refoelz,
Keep trying?Rationalizing your tolerance?
The definition of L’taavon is expressing guilt and some regret. Do any L#@* express guilt and regret? On The Contrary..Takes2, zdad,etc.,
One who makes sarcasms here falls within the rubric of Rabbenu Yonah Shaar Gimmel ‘s Leitzonim
amongst the worst of groupingsHaving fun fiddling, while Jerusalem burns..
Rand0m3x ,
One who concerns themselves about public issues, ought to keep both “reb Yisroel” AND “Klal Yisroel” in balanceMRS PLONY,
Irrelevant.Better,difficult as it often is, to be objective than subjective.Winnie,
irrelevant to this discussion,unless one assumes that in recent years/decades it has gotten much worse. Which is possible.refoelzeev,
Surely virtually every individual who receives Capital Punishment of any sort in any country will explain how their case really should be different..
including molestors ,serial murderers,idol worshippers
Everyone can rationalize themselves . much easier on the psyche
A murderous mafia guy who lying in his blood after getting shot told those around him that he” had never hurt a fly”.
Ok, they’re right,too??So now what?!Takes 2,
Would any of them pass laws,wave banners , unabashedly promote their ‘lifestyles’,ask us to embrace them?Would you ?
We were obligated to wipe out the 7 Nations of Cana’an because they were also “so tolerant”Akuperma, Wrong.
IT would depend if it was L’taavon or l’hacha’as.And when a group of sinners joins flaunting grievous sins that is categorically L’haachas..It would be much better if they go flunk the rest cf.Isaiah chap.1Zdad,
therefore?! So he chose the devil,and wishes bring the rest of us !Kcup,
an attempt to be rhetorical?
Given:In the 60s,’70s ,and ’80s our communities pushed all these things under the rug
Given :In the 60s,’70s ,and ’80s our communities grew by leaps and bounds above the curve.So much so, we wax nostalgic todayשומו שמים
חזון ישעיהו
The same usernames who are supposedly overly worried for a Chumra become a Chilul Hashem
Are the same fellows on another thread bending over backwards defending the ultimate Chilul Hashem?!Joseph
that’s off topic.
R’ Noach Weinberg is turning over in his grave.
Yes, Aish has it’s problems, And in more than a few locales , are getting worse
...Let’s now return to topic
There should be almost endless stories of Misnagdim
However A chassidish Rebbe who was relating ‘Mofes stories’ about his forebears to R’Berel .R’Berel told the Rebbe
“we also have more than than enough such stories , But[bei unz]For us we consider it a step down , for the velt saying stories about us”adocs,
No .
Firstly how come we giving him alibis?If so ,let him talk for himself
Need we state the obvious?By taking the title he is a choteh U’macht for the whole region , just for giving legitimacy,
Second,How abut taking a postion in a reconstructionist or reform temple to supposedly for tshuva ? In those cases at least no one is misledThe chofetz Chaim,as is well known,stated that Amalek includes those of jewish extraction
It is brought down [in two sources] that the egregious evil of Amalek that we are obligated to battle our final battle is Toi’evahAnd at this moment when we are in a war,and he chose to switch sides
Mind over chatter, Interesting .
Is it however, possible to ever stop everything?
How about babysitters with diapers?Should we ban it?Ask therapists in that field.has been a problemLetakein,
That is horrible indeed.
However this may come as a surprise to the younger generations ,but these things have happened before ..In many locales.
And Guess what?
Our communities grew arguably stronger ,bigger,more durable, all the while it being was pushed under the rug.And that was due to a cohesive trust
Today due to all the hand wringing;washing dirty linen in public; and public strictures, we plausibly are beginning to fall apar.t And this is due to distrust.,in large part everybody has become suspect.
though of course every incident should be appropriately dealt with to separate perpetrator and victims“Based on this,Rav ahron is rolling around in his grave knowing that the shtut of lakewood is preverting his mesora.”
For those of lakewood who ARE aware and don’t care or even smirk, not only is He rolling over in his grave, but so is every righteous man since AdamRambam Hilchos Teshuva 3:6-10
And anyone who can effectively protest and does not will be responsible for the subsequent wrong that results. Shabbos 54a
Joseph,
“Rav Aharon Kotler was certainly no misnagid.He was certainly a novel change from the old style
.He told a relative who asked him if it was permitted (in 1946) to marry someone from a chassidish background,that the cherem today is battul
On the other hand when the satmar rav told someone “you’ll never be a chussid”He told the bachur “say Amen”
Takes 2,
Are they flaunting it ?Are they promoting it?Are they advertising themselves as a …synagogue?!
How about a synagogue advertising for murderers ?Or worse?Judaism has Cardinal Precepts.Should we file religious Bankruptcy?!
Adocs,
In what whatsoever can this be comparable?!Kiruv is for those who were born frei who wish to improve[ no one is Actively sinning as LGBT as an infant]!
And for 7 mitzovs Bnei Noach there is never any concect of Tinok She’nishba
Makkos 6First things first
pressure BMG to revoke whatever “smicha” he hasChiefshmerel;
Joseph is correct. What is there really to discuss?Will he have been the first to stab us in the back?
( Louis Ginzberg, founder of Reconstructionism,studied in Telz )
Does that make it any less pernicious?Hardly. A traitor is a traitorRav Aharon Kotler, warned that the greatest threat facing Jewry is not intermarriage or assimilation, but perversion of the Torah,
(Mishnas Reb Aharon 1:2,3:6).The rationalizations people make just gain a title?
What is incumbent upon ourselves besides vocally denigrating and protesting, is to excommunicate anyone who is associated in any way with fellas like himcf. Ramban on Devarim 27:26
One who shirks their obligation to uphold Judaism as much as is feasible is “Arur”” caution before leaving older boys babysitting”
22% of abuse is done by females.
and another several % is done by males and females in tandem togetheryitzchokm,catch,etc.,
The Din is for these and similar.., that “in a locale where the peope parutz ( leaning more licentious)”we are supposed to be stricter and raise the barriersUnless one is in one of the attractive virtual “ideal” marriages, there’s a stigma for those who stay married.
For the younger generations today, it has become inverted / reversedMarital abuse is an ever changing norms .
It means virtually whatever one , one’s relations,one’s society choose at the moment for it to mean or don’t want it mean
Plus,It changes according to country and decade!Much of the basis behind females today complaints’ that they desire a real man and young males today “aren’t real men” is because so many boys and young men are so terrified afraid to act dominant and terrified to develop that, since they innately fear to be called abuser!
A hyper femenized society (including our own millennials and gen X ) ,in a nutshell!
It depends on what
It depends on how articulate and fluent in EnglishMaybe try R’ Ahron Lopiansky of Silver Spring
Or R’Yoseph Gavriel Bechoffer
Zdad,and Gadolhadorah,
It really needs to be all assur or nothing [unfettered completely]?it’s either or?How about limits?Are they off limits[pun] ?Edited
Rand0m3x , That might prove the contrary actually,
Cars are forbidden to minors or anyone who is unable to follow the regulations .
Even when someone weakens e.g. old age, they lose their licenceSecond,with a vehicle,though it does make it easier, one still needs to go actively out to sin.(which was the case with horses & stagecoaches too)With a phone one could sit or lie in bed
(Finally ,in some communities the women refrain to this day from driving)
zdad,
my mother’s side was avowedly yekkish/western European.
they held Yiddish is strong contempt.
Yiddish encapsulated a whole modus vivendi and dialectic .Even for those who were running away from it.Show me something comparable that has crossed the seas and oceanssmall humourous far from Holy sample: the Forverts, Yiddish newspaper publish August 27, 1909 article on baseball for greenhorn immigrants:
/Translated/
..A similar scene takes place every day in another place – in the Washington Heights. And the exact same thing goes on in Brooklyn, in Philadelphia, in Pittsburgh, in Boston, in Baltimore, in St. Louis, in Chicago – in every city in the United States. And the newspapers print the results of these games and describe what happened and tens of millions of people run to read it with gusto. They talk about it and they debate the issues..
So what are the fundamentals of the game?
Two parties participate in the game. Each party is comprised of nine people ..
One of them throws the ball to the other, who has to grab it. The first one is called the “pitcher” (thrower) and the second is called the “catcher” (grabber).Each time, the “catcher” throws the ball back to the “pitcher.” The reader may therefore ask, if so, doesn’t it happen backwards each time – the catcher becomes a pitcher and the pitcher becomes a catcher? Why should each one be called with a specific name – one pitcher and one catcher?
…[‘Baseball appears to have been overall one of those rare matters upon which both rabbanim and secular Yiddish cartoonists could agree upon. It is thus with great sympathy that one of the cartoonists working for Der groyser kundes cartoons portray the difficulty Orthodox rabbis in America had in trying to convince American Jewish boys to attend heder. Der kundes, a very popular and very secular satire oriented to Left Labor Zionism, lamented the disinterest the lunkheaded, .., baseball-obsessed Jewish youth. ]
Avi K.,
” actually Rav Ovadia accepted them as Jewish and even allowed”
sigh. Everyone is well aware of thatAvi k.,
chose to miss the point?
שיחות מוסר were given over in what language?They were typed[ the original stencils had a lot of incendiary declarations that were deleted as per Rav Chaim Shmuelevitz’ s request] and later retyped in Hebrew,
but for the actual shmuess only yiddish would suffice
Presumably modern Hebrew is considered [ out come the fireworks] by comparison too shallow/superficial
particularly with it’s over-emphasis on the latter part of the word[mil’ra]From a distinguished Mashgiach
whose primary mode of delivery and oration is Hebrew
though he is American born and does on occasion speak and use english for Anglo-Americans poignantly said:
“In Hebrew it’s a Hartza’ah,
in English , a lecture,
in Yiddish [ it will become] a Shmuess”“The notion that an [improper] conversion could be annulled after the fact.. is found on occasion and R. Baruch cites some authorities who speak about this very point. Thus, it is not, as has often been alleged, a modern haredi idea with no historical basis although, as mentioned, it was very rare”
Midwest2,
That is rather accurate. Some of the old Russian jews who help the Rabbis have a remarkable sense
of just who is legitimate or not.One of them[he since passed away] was invariably right onAvi K
“If a person comes to us, tells us he is Jewish and keeps mitzvot we believe him unless there is reason to suspect him. See נאמנות אדם על יהדותו by הרב עקיבא כהנא. ”Sigh. A rather absolute statement.
It depends, for example, on where he is coming from
According to most, Ethiopian or similar self identification was not enough