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Avi K,
Do you have an different phrase for yetzias mitzraim or the collapse of the walls of jericho?
Calling it an ‘Open Miracle’ is a desecration and treading on dangerous water
Avi K.,
there were alot of wonderful jews involved in 1948 ( including among others a greatuncle of mine, a leader of mizrachi who was on radio may 14 1948) who arguably were potential ‘useful idiots’
Avi K.,etc.
The newly reorganized CIA guestimated that the State (it was still uncertain what name it was going to have)would be dominated by the communists within 3 years !
Put the era in perspective
” A UN Commission recommended .. Jerusalem and its surrounding villages were to be temporarily classified as an international zone belonging to neither polity.”
The Rav Dushinsky of the Eidah HaCharedis appeared before a UN Panel requesting that that how it should remain
In 1945 with the Labour Massive Win, the situation took a serious turn for the worse
The new pugnacious Foreign Sec.Ernest Bevin was antisemitic and were some of his subordinates
“Those who sow the wind, will reap the whirlwind”
Who helped cause the astonishing massive Victory and first ever Labour Majority Government?
Which ethnic group was arguably the prime driving force within and behind Labour (more even than the Scots)?
How come The Histadrut of Palestine campaigned for Labour but then came to regret it ?
How come 90% of the Jews of britain voted Labour?
How come there was nostalgia in the early ’50s for the Mandate
which was a cause for
Herut down from 14 to 8 Seats in the 2nd Knesset?
Recall also the difficult climate
For some of the absurdity , read the wikipedia page of Lechi
The Peel Commission of 1937 offered to grant autonomy or independence to the inhabitants
the Arabs rejected giving any territory to the New Yishuv
The New Yishuv rejected what they were being offered
The Yishuv hayashan and some others as well were more concerned with both sides and preferred the status quo of the Mandate (even if they complained about their limitations re: access to the kosel)
liberal
as in eighteenth century liberal like myself
or
early twentieth century liberal
or
later twentieth century decadent anti individual liberal?
Avi K.,
His brother said he was ‘chozer’ from most of what he said in ’60s.
Oh,you missed that
baisyaakovliberal,
OY, that then explains how you became a liberal
The old yekke R’Uri Weinberg a”h who arrived in Palestine in 1943, would say the The british and their statisticians would come up with all their calculations and on paper they were correct indeed:Palestine could not contain more than a population of 400,000 ,etc.,etc,etc.,
The problem was they could not give that Yidden in Eretz yisroel operate on a whole different set of rules
“But they refused to give control of Israel to the Jews!”
They would’ve done the same that they were doing in Arab regions,had the locals agreed.
The Chafetz Chaim
also said Shabbos is like a Store SHingle .it announces if your Religion is open for business
(“Where shall we find another man as wise as this one? Let us set him in charge…”)
(“And Pharoah gave him as a wife…”)
Anyone else think all of this is spooky?
Shabbat Shalom
People are being disabused
zahavasdad,Etc.
FALSE
just a couple of weeks ago, there were emails like these:
Viceroy of the Week–Special “Second Only To Pharoah In All The Land” edition
“If someone is Orthodox”that means at the minimum they adhere to Shabbos !
unless they’re culturally Orthodox or legacy Orthodox
Health,
Yes, Lord Samuel was jewish as well.As was Antizionist Lord Montagu
Sir Ronald Storrs,for one, was supposedly antisemitic.Yet some accounts admit what he really hated were socialist eastern europeans . He got along fabulous with the orthodox Ms. Laundau “The Queen” Headmistress of the De Rothschild School and would hire her pupils.
The tzaddik Sir Harry Goodman of London while speaking at the 1954 Knessia Gedolah was heckled for having been too “pro british”
“At the beginning, he was more of a Zionist than Weizmann, but then the Antisemitic British got to him”
It’s patently false too call [most of ] the British “Antisemitic”,though it worked for zionist propaganda
“The Bais Yaakov movement was created to keep our girls frum. Before Beis Yaakov girls learnt everything they needed to know at home. It was that way for “
Oversimplified
The Frankfurt girls school started in 1853.
(where did most of BY educators come from?)
There were some others as well
For Backward Poland of the tumultuous ’20s, it was a major innovation
Avi K.,
Most of the British were cold/cool but even handed and hardly antisemitic
There were, naturally, exceptions such as Harry Luke-whose family had shma”d zich
Dr. Wallach, righteous yekkish founder of Sha’arei Tzeddek Hospital had to hire a guard to avoid assassination for being too pro british
“I brought this up in a polite and non confrontational way, to someone who I rarely agree with, asking for his perspective, because I know people in this circumstance. In fact I’ve taken a very non confrontational approach here for the better part of a year already.”
Unfortunately yichusdik you do have a prior record and therefore highly suspect of recidivism
“You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you!” – Leon Trotsky
Any different than Axelrod and Emanuel in this last Administration?
Thanks LU,
And since all of us here are supposed to “Follow in his Ways”
So how is it that Rabbi Dovid Feinstein who doesn’t follow that electricity=boneh, is adamantly against using elevators on Shabbos?
Rabbi Chaim Jachter, Rabbi David Sperling
are the consensus? 🙂
yichusdik,
The answer is :NO
They,once again, fall under the rubric of Oness
There have been several, or possibly many, examples from the recent and bygone past ( e.g.the yishuv Hayashan’s public activist of 95 years ago)
They could marry their shtender or give their ardor to public klal affairs
Once more, yeshaya 56:2-5
Beis Din would have the power to do so
if they felt the person would eventually be changed (Lamarckism ,anyone?)enough for it to be matzliach
And if you have a long term problem with your Faith,
Own up and avoid these incessant use of foils
Would anyone wish explain the real difference, between Open orthodox , Conservatism and even Reform other than cosmetics?
lightbrite,
That discussion would be too long
For one, Our generation were likely more straightshooting and on the flipside more gullible
Breaking News:Rev.roger hambrick and the green pastures-baptist-church-choir perform at avi weiss shul on mlk day 2017
LU,
It’s pretty rare for today’s younger generation to have the problems that we had,at least for North America .
They grew up differently
How did end up there?Your parents made aliya?
Yes He does.
However he also has a world to run
“Grew up together since they were babies”
That was thrown in for some odd,how come?
“Although in all fairness, this could be due to the fact that there are more right-wing posters here than left-wing posters.
Or it could just be because they don’t like us.”
Or it might be that Left leaning posters are more savvy and articulate , and are better at gaming the system
The yetzer Hara is usually a step ahead
Eh.. is there any other site on the planet where
1)the Mods write talkbacks so much?
That’s because mods are your friends
2)the Mods are so annoying?
3) is this a recent development here
Someone should start anew thread about this
P.S. Hope you don’t have much first hand knowledge about the other sites on the planet. Many of them are dangerous
“Time, by calling Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach’s sheeta, which is the consensus sheeta, aberrant you have put yourself beyond the pale, anecdotal statements notwithstanding.”
Consensus ? Of Blogdaism?Really?
” created the world accordingly, which means that human nature can and is supposed to try to achieve that ideal, even if it is challenging for a particular individual.”
The present rage of Epigenetics proves anyone change if they wish it enough.
The public,media, etc., need to and are attempting to shut down the whole debate now about whether anyone could change precisely because they’re fully aware how it will become public knowledge in a few years that it’s false in toto and anyone COULD change, of course!
They’re goal is that by then ,it will already be too late and the debate will have indeed been shut
R’Sherer had a policy against nepotism in the Agudah.Even his own sons and daughters were forbidden to have positions/jobs in the Agudah as long as he was alive.
edited
Gateshead would be classic.
The family felt on of their sons should inherit the position, but the Town machers refused,thereby leaving the position vacant for several years
Lightbrite,
Anyone born with a predilection to murder,adultery,incest, or ,say,shoplifting and will be unable to control themselves
Should we give them a free pass??
Where were you and OO when civilizations of the past accused us for being ‘narrow’,’rigid’ and “destroying peoples’ happiness” due to our refusal to bend for the prior mentioned?Should we have bent? What about all those poor individuals’ “suffering” [ read Shakespeare if/when examples are needed]?
“The greste k’fira in heintige tzeitin, is k’fira in bechira !”
which applies to anyone who for whatever sad reason is an
and has little/zero attraction for the opposite gender
On the other hand if they “come out” and flaunt it We absolutely have to push them out, if Orthodoxy means anything at all
LU,
your description of your experiences then is far from unusual for many of both genders
How did end up there?Your parents made aliya?
Lightbrite,
Anyone born with a predilection to murder,adultery, or ,say,shoplifting and will be unable to control themselves
Should we give them a free pass??
“The greste k’fira in heintige tzeitin, is k’fira in bechira !”
which applies to anyone who for whatever sad reason is an
and has little/zero attraction for the opposite gender
On the other hand if they “come out of the closet” We absolutely have to push them out, if Orthodoxy is to mean anything at all
lightbrite,
There is a bigger greater destiny for the World with the Torah as the Compass and lodestone.We all must bend if our inclinations for the it (and yes all suffer if you wish to call it that)
By choosing to harp on one topic and individuals you’re avoiding
asking the bigger questions e.g.how come the Holocaust?How come there is suffering?Are we heading somewhere?Where are we heading?
“FuturePOTUS, to my understanding OO is not condoning acts but looking the other way. “
Naivete is hardly a laudable trait
Here are some of several articles by Rabbi Gordimer worth a read
Will the Real Modern Orthodoxy Please Stand Up?
Open Orthodoxy and the Rebirth of the Conservative Movement
The Open Orthodox Race to the Edge and Beyond: When Will It Stop..
LU,
Is that where you came of age
In which decade
Avi K,
Missed much of the proceeeding thread
You usually could find,if you desire to, one abberrant shitah and trumpet it
Presumably,you are aware of those who hold it is Boneh and other issurim
Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach’s son R’Shmuel was asked how come he is so more right wing/stringent than his father was
His response:We heard what our father said in the kitchen when the doors were closed
‘the extra weight question is concerned see “The Shabbat Elevator” by
Rabbi Yisrael Rozen (on-line)’
Rabbi Rozen is useful perhaps when Bsha’as had’chak, hardly normative
He has been over the years has been sidelined by leading Poskim
Avi K
In one case, according to Dr Rothschild it was yeneh machalah
On top of all the previous justified assertions opposing the New Shopping Mall, there is a concept of
????? ???? ?????
Aaron Kotler told me personally more than a decade ago that if/when lakewood becomes too commercialized, they/he would move BMG out of town
He must’ve had a change of heart since somehow ..
“If someone keeps 60-70% of Halacha. The Charedi communties will look at such a person as a sinner and might throw them out if they dont immediately agree to abide. The more modern communities will look at the 60-70% that they do keep”
Au contrarie ,
Many invariably look
down on those who keep 100% as naive, gullible , BTish at the minimum
LU,
In which Country were did your dating experiences happen?
According to some of the common definitions of MO presented here (gavra ,et al.):
1)There is another whole recent thread “Is Hareidism a new movement” and attempting to posit MO by comparison as closer to Normative.Does that jive?
2)Are,say,Skokie alumni out?(Better go inform Harry M ‘the Centrist’ )
3)Should we show more empathy to all MO wannabees [on their numerous blogs]who sadly for them lacking the requisite credentials?
4)What about females?
Better start opening a host of Kiruv Centers?
5)In which rubric would Louis Ginzberg or David Halivny Weiss fall?
6)Is MO
Cultural Club or Alumni Golf Association?
6)On some blogs[e.g.Slifkin’s]
several months ago they consorted to lambast, tar and feather Rabbi Gordimer (a “righteous in his generations”) as being fraudulent /false member of MO (“How dare He?!”),claiming his articles as too frum/yeshivish , irrespective of his MO credentials.
( They virtually wished to revoke his YU diploma,plus the fact that he was a Talmid.)
How would that reconcile?
The Game must go on….?
How would explain what Dr.Rothschild [Founder of Ma’ayenei hayehoshua Hospital]related
More than once people suffering from very serious illnesses approached the Steipler asking for whether to travel overseas,etc
The Steipler told them to go to Dr. Rothschild for some penicillin. He gave them as instructed and to his astonishmenttheir illnesses disappeared?
In The Aseres Hadibros
the seemingly relatively mundane
“Lo Sachmod..Kol asher L’rei’echa”
is added
HOw come?
Avi K,etc.
(presumably the Rabbi you are implying in Rabbi D C
It’s the Modox crowd who often are inclined to rely on some of his maverick Heterim, ironically.)
Once more, Very shrewd to quibble about minutiae
K Cup,
see my brief synopsis on OO “halacha”
on the thread Open Orthodoxy