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Chasam Sofer on SHulchan Aruch, OH #65 – reason we do not speak Loshon HaKodesh is to prevent undesirable people from speaking it, and to prevent its being used in impure places.
” Moshe Rabbeinu did not speak Yiddish.”
Moshe Rabbeinu didn’t do much of what we do having developed over the eons. One who however diverts from them[ not out of ignorance but out of contempt]
Poretz geder yin’shache’hu nachash
AND
minhag yisroel Kodesh!?2/Chavtzeles HaSharon (I:OH:10) Loshon HaKodesh is only Kodesh if its used exclusively for holy things. That is once you start using it to speak mundane things, its not holy anymore.
The Rambam writes that a love song in Hebrew is more repulsive to G-d than the same song in Arabic, for instance, because the pollution of the Holy language is an additional crime3/Though there were Yiddishistin who spoke Yiddish, they took it from us, not vice-versa (as is the case of Modern Hebrew), and as we do not live in a society dominated by Yiddish-speaking frei, there is no benefit of Lo shinu es leshonam by not speaking Yiddish.
TalmudC and Avi,
It was one of the most impactful orations of the time
with reverberationsPurchase a copy of Bayos/t Hazeman
It should be in there.
Or ask any Williamsburg , East Side, or similar oldtimerRav Reuven in his epochal 1948 speech castigated all in isms of the era including
Zionism ,hebrewism and yiddishm
He declared that the yiddisher heart and holiness were seeped into the language
and Yiddish was thoroughly redolent of them.
However for some it could be turned into a religion and a foreign Ends in of itselfthe Debreciner Rav ZL was asked about about english and he replied that our “Yeshivishizing” english suffices to fulfill what the Chasam Sofer wanted. We borrow many expressions from Yiddish, Aramaic (as in l’chorah, memaileh etc) and Hebrew (like mamsh), as well as changing the usage and syntax (The usage of the word “by” in “I was by so-and-so for Shabbos” does not happen in the English language).
Rav Reuven Grozovsky in “Bayos HaZeman”, regarding making Modern Hebrew our “national language.”brings a responsa of Rav Yaakov Sasportes, a great combatant in the fought against the Shabse Tzvi He relates that Shabse Tzvi actually intorduced some positive, even obligatory practices into Judaism. [Performing Birkas Kohanim daily, even in Chutz La’aretz, was foremost among them. But, says the Ohel Yaakov, even though this is a good and positive practice, and perhaps even obligatory according to Halacha, since its origins came through Shabse Tzvi, we should not do it.
typo Mandate Language census
In the Sefer B’Tuv Yerushalayim it relates that the Maharil Diskin refused to speak to a certain Talmid Chacham of Jerusalem because he used to spek only Loshon HaKodesh. Said the Maharil Diskin, “For generations we are accustomed to speaking Yiddish, not Loshon HaKodesh.”
p.s. However it seems that R’ Sonnenfeld later regretted this position.He even answered the Mandate language replying he spoke hebrew
” many Lithuanian Jews also pronounced the word ‘Shibboleth’ as ‘Sibboleth’. As a result of their enunciation, other Yiddish speakers .. referred to the Lithuanian dialect of Yiddish as ‘Sabesdiker Losn’.”
The little,
A sly foil to oppose all bans? How about drugs?Biological weapons?Or just jewish ones?Was the ban of 1956 wrong too?Or the Syrian ban of Geirus?The original Mishnah Berurah 156:4 reads:
מצוה על כל אדם לאהוב את כ”א מישראל כגופו שנא’ ואהבת לרעך כמוך וכו’ ודוקא רעך בתורה ומצוות אבל אדם רשע שראה אותו שעבר עבירה המפורסמת בישראל ולא קיבל תוכחה מצוה לשנאתו.
It was suspiciously censored out of some later editions
my own Kind Of J,
He ‘s allowed to be mistaken once in a while,we have a pretty good track record with him,“and similar things have for the most part ceased to exist”
A lot of people would like to believe that, especially those who are MOWe have a tradition from the Chofetz Chaim
that the strongest kishuf is amongst Asians .Africans are number 2,and American Indians are number 3Solaro
,they are delaying it in many of the provincesFreddyfish,
That is a tough one,though many jews already are
Is it okay to exploit the weaknesses of others?What about gambling?
Surely it smells wrong👑RebYidd23,
That is it??
Driving without a seatbelt
U turnsOn a more serious note:
The Baker ruling was sly and devilishThe majority implied that they can’t be forced to 1) bake [something difficult to enforce in any case].But to hold in event on premises ,possibly that should be forced
due to 2) the explicit prejudice [would it be implicit,then…]
Fortunately ,Alito,
Thomas,and Gorsuch to a lesser extent
argued all this and more in their concurrencesAnd that is just the beginning .they whipped the Right into pining for the next case and confusion
Paradoxically they sort of felt, the latest wild multi racial Left was was becoming chaotic and slipping from under their heels.
So this sent a message to this mass Left they are pretty okay.But to go after religious moral people
it needs be done in a more cultured refined way.In other words, leave it to their betters such as justices.“I wonder if this would be considered מסייע, since they have plenty of opportunity to pursue their chosen course even without CTL’s help.”
One could in the end matir almost anything on that basisCTL,
What about a kohen with a divorcee ?How would you go about it?My apologies to DY ,Joseph, and Neville C,
Difficult to jive CTL’s post with any semblance of a Classic LitvakMO is a better label than the new Postmodern Orthodoxy
However it ought to be a general denigration
For R.Norman Lamm and ybm”l Rabbi JB Soloveitchik the term was/is a sort of halfway house almost like Carmelis‘ being a “classic litvak”.’ have much to do with” Have you taken a ride through the nicer parts of Lakewood lately”‘?
Midwest,
kol Yisrael areivim zeh l’zeh.is more than a fuzzy feel good mantle donning. It bears with it obligations to reprove others (It is the basis with which we are yotze another jew ,because we bear their performance obligation)
cf.D’vorim 29:28Avi , you ‘re granting them too much benefit of the doubt.
Fact is many North American jews didn’t care enough to disturb their routine.(that would include several of my own relatives)They were more than a few Jewish America Firsters.
A friend of my mine whose grandfather in Toronto was financially actively aiding during & after the holocaust related that he asked his grandfather once how come his peers didn’t do as much
Response: They didn’t care enoughNP,
“No one thinks having money posuls you from classic litvishkeit. ”
The Classic Litvak has/had a disinterest for money, as well an aversion for ostentatious goods
Of the choices given, the proper answers are #3 & #5NP,
I concede.It is by and large irrelevant as the thrust remains the same. However yes indeed,immediately after typing my impetuous post I noticed the inherent contradiction.“Equal Rights Amendment to be the law of the land,”
Doubtful if any Classic Litvak of the ’70s supported the ERA.They were strenuously opposed -at least verbally ,more so than even the Litvishe of today” today the terminology/nomenclature has changed in popular usage from CL to become MO”
Not for hashkafa.Perhaps for externals and mannerismsNP,
Set a strawman and then going on the attack?
Choosing to put phrases into people’s mouths??“Rabbi Moshe Meiselman and Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb both have PHDs. Are they MO?”
1000% not
MO tend to abuse and malign those two especially the former, more than they do to the stereotypical mainstream charedim.Which ought to be more than a bit tellingif they are anything they’re either anti MO or very Far right wing MO
“1) Just because I want something for the general populace does not mean I shall avail myself of it.2) My religious prescriptions and restrictions are taken up by choice and should not be foisted upon the general American public 3)beyond the Noachide Laws)”
The sentiments are a little contradictory [or is it Legalspeak]
though others have insinuated this might be the wrong Thread for that.Joseph ,
That is unjustified and Going too far.CTL has the right to cliam his family is pre_MO and prior to later later delineationsCTL,
an unfortunate of families like yours is after striving and treading water for long they fall into an inertia[Rabbi Leo Jung’s negation of postwar gedolim as luftmenshen may well be a rabbinic example of that]
However it is fair if this goes in hand in hand with the understandable feeling of the lack of hakarat hatov/gratitude from multitudes who came afterward for the blood ,sweat, and tears for those who laid the groundwork
CTL,
Our backgrounds are remarkably similar 🙂
More to the point:
Rav J.B. Soloveitchik. was a sociopolitical conservative who voted Eisenhower ,Nixon, [Goldwater?]Furthermore,
Name one classic Litvak who had positive views of the Upheavals and ‘liberation’ of the ’60s
[Shaul Lieberman and those of his persuasion ,whatever they might have held, are naturally irrelevant for this discussion]“only to be told that his world view would give classic Litvaks indigestion. Where does that rate on the pettiness scale?”
How is that petty?maybe the vocabulary perhaps ,but the thrust?And what about Americans or Canadians?
Who?
Abraham Lincoln
?Wilfrid Laurier?a m,
” SAD!!Why cant any of you fargin???”IT’s wrong to challenge priorities??
Churchill,was he a Liberal? He claimed himself to be, at least in some of his political incarnations?
He was was one of most ardent proponents of Free Trade,even after others retreated from it
What about the Cliveden Set? They also called themselves Liberal ,pro fascist as they were.Once again, JS Mill was an outlier
“Having been in close contact “and some of my own pedigree
CTLAWYER,
“I might be a ‘Classic”=borders on the absurd?
Having been in close contact with and studied under many a Litvak,
your weltenshauung and politics would have given them serious indigestionPerhaps you are unfamiliar with classical Litvaks and the like?
He went beyond the Typical 18th century Whig e.g. he supported Irish Rights [at least in the early state] too.
Rather atypical for a protestant IrishmanHaving said that, your statement is fair enough
This all fine Theory
Who should you define as a Classical liberal in the world of Politik
Asquith? Who his [most of ] own party stage a coup and threw out due to his inability to do the job?
Gladstone?“My objection to Liberalism is this that it is the introduction into ..business of life of the highest kind namely, politics of philosophical ideas instead of political principles”
But that was of identical origin as:
” difference between a misfortune and a calamity is this: If Gladstone fell into the Thames, it would be a misfortune. But if someone dragged him out .. that would be a calamity”Joseph,
Ask Any classic Litvak
[Admittedly, there aren’t that many left.]They’d smirk at chassidish Torah
though they’ll do it gently.
And that might be because they recognize that chassidus has probably done a better job at keeping the hoi polloi within the broad religious umbrella .And that is of import.
Putting that aside,they hardly render it still in any way normative or authentic,though they’ll generally refrain from expressing itAvi,
Burke wrote that in 1774 when he was a leading young Enlightenment writer in Britain
He was in his writings and his parliamentary votes invariably on the Whig side of things.
This was prior to his later becomig one of the leading articulators of conservatives
[or for some, reactionary] After the start of the French RevolutionAs T Jefferson quipped greater “than the Revolution in France,is the revolution in Mr.Burke”
They were many other jews, who unhappily as it is to admit now, helped the Nazis
There was a jew in finland and one in Lebanon who both sold arm shipments to the german WehrmachtDY,
Sorry ,that is the revisionism
Till Rizhin and the ensuing counter revolution, ALL chasiduss was about hapiness within simplicity and hanging with lower social milieuelements of Animal Farm?
Classical Liberalism
“The only liberty that is valuable is a liberty connected with order; that not only exists along with order and virtue, but which cannot exist at all without them. It inheres in good and steady government, as in its substance and vital principle.”
Were the Baal Shem Tov and his followers to come back today the first they were rebel and push opposition to would be present day Chassidish Brand Courts
“Joseph, I have never seen a reliable source saying that the expiration date was after 1000 years”
R’ Akiva Eger may something like that1,etc.,
Yes, what the mega oligopolies get away is absurdWhile Phil may have the wrong endgame ,he,sadly has merit to his post
DY,
Well saidTo buttress this further
1)”L’nezira, schor schor, l’carma la nikrav”
2) Chazal on occasion weren’t gozeir for situations it wasn’t necessary e.g. the public weren’t by and large nichsal for that Issue.But it was with the caveat that where,when and if ,the said issue is becoming a developing problem then it would be incumbent to “erect fences” in place for analogous scenarios.Takes2,
“Do u bury your smartphone when it breaks?”
Is this reproof or proof?
One should pray from something that he/she will bury
p.s.How about using something from a scribe who is a heretic?“Why stop at smartphones?
How can you trust yourself to not be mechallel shabbos,eat traif, hilchos nidda,
Hilchos yichud. Getting up to daven before zman krias shma,eating on Yom kipper ”
This is the/a major part of the problem .Everything mentioned have Hilchos.
For phones, they have as of yet to be codified.And many prefer it this way.They will spat or type fire and brimstone for any will even try.One thing that irks people who daven from the same phone that they may have used for ..
Even if that is a bit extreme ,they surely take it into the bathroom,etc.“As a gadol haorah(ah), I can assure you”
Been to the Therapist of late?