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What a beautiful, heartfelt post! Amen!
thank you for the clarification. have a meaningful fast and Shabbos. actually the other way around…
at the risk of sounding foolish, matisyohu who exactly is your comment directed to and how does it fit into this thread?
jent…I believe that this is where you referred to yourself as ehrlicha yid…”to “workingman” page 1 can you please explain what the term “holier than thou” means .have heard it used many times,wi’ll not go into who uses it vs. against whom its used. Not the definition of the words, but give us example of what one does that makes him holier than the 2nd guy.and the 2nd guy gets upset and tells the first guy “dont be holier than thou”..by the way we havent come across this term being used by ehrliche bnei torah, so congratulations, your the 1st…or maybe you arent from that group?
jent…i don’t know if you read my previous post but as far as your writing “if me wears a gartel and you dont wear a gartel” that is not a problem for me because if i wore a gartel it would be considered “beged ish”. i am repeating myself here that i am NOT mr. irhakodesh, but mrs. irhakodesh. i do not want to ch’v be “oiver” on “mipnei iveir al titen michshol”, since you probably don’t want to be “marbeh sichah im haisha”. it is absolutely true that “mir nit said anything negetive” – you didn’t. that is why i added in or hats or jackets…but you always speak about “we” when you post so i was talking about your buddies on your “so called” side. you asked me to state which side i am on. i don’t take sides, but i do think that you have put me on one and that is just fine. as far as telling mir that “if you want to know what the ribni shel oilom wants, its very simple, he gave exact instuctions, its called torah sh’besav WITH torah s’bal peh,which consists of arbai chelkai sulchen urech, one and indevisible” b.h. i too have learned torah shebichtav and torah shebalpeh. have you ever heard of “shivim panim latorah?”
when you say that “i am sure the the riboni shel oilom..’are you also from those who have a direct line to the riboni shel oilom and are sure what he wants..” the answer is yes, i do have a direct line and so do you … it’s called t’fillah…and i believe that HKBH is a “keil rachum vchanun erech apaim vrav chesed vemet” i believe that we are supposed to emulate those virtues and i try to each day of my life.
as far as…
“‘does the riboni shel oilon care if we eat treif,strike an match shabbos etc, etc’AS LONG AS WE HAVE A GOOD JEWISH HEART ,(WHATEVER THAT MEANS).SO IN S’U orach chaim 91clochos are disscussed what attire one should wear when davening wi, and you come with ‘i am sure that..’ so are we not right about what we thinkwhich ‘side’ you stand. now ow we hapeyou dont thing that mir consider you ‘LESS JEWISH’ by saing this.YOU CAN DEFINATELY SAY ONLT THE RIBONI SHEL OILONM KNOWS WHO IS MORE,WITH ALL OUR PSHETLECH YOU CAN BE MORE IN THE RIBSO ‘EYES’ THAN ME..BUT WE STILL HAVE TO POINT OUT WHAT WE THINkYOU ARE WRONG”
yes, i believe the kbh does care if we eat treif, strike a match on shabbos…etc…of course i do! however i also believe that hkbh made ten dibrot, five bein adam lamakom and five ben adam l’chaveiros…now why would he do that if only all the things you are talking about are important? FIFTY percent is about how we treat one another! so, if i have misunderstood you then i apologize…but i don’t think that the other side treats you like you treat them….i think that they believe “eilu v’eilu” and they don’t judge you. they are being someich on what their rabeim have taught them. perhaps hkbh expects different things from different people. and since you are so learned and obviously a chashuva guy since you always speak for a lot of people “we” maybe hkbh holds you to a high standard on the chaveiros as well as on the makoms…now i know that you will tell me that these posters are not your chaverim, but maybe, just maybe give them a chance and the mashiach will arrive this tisha b’av. i truly wish you and your side and easy fast and a year full of bracha and hatzlacha…as well as ALL of am yisrael!
jent, as far as how i feel about pirkei avot and al tarbeh sichah im haisha, i have no problem with it since i’m not mr. irhakodesh but mrs. irhakodesh. i guess that that ends this conversation:)! have and easy fast.
to jent…you are right, and i don’t need the pshetel…i understand that the ‘dan l’kaf zecht’is for the dan and not nidon…i thank you from absolving me from being matriach to dan you…how silly of me…we’ll leave all of that to the KBH. looking forward to hearing the continuation…
I’d be glad to since I would truly love to be dan you l’chaf zchut, but am having a hard time doing so.
hevei kabeil et kol adam bsever panim yafot and Hevei dan lchaf zchut.
“we went to ysehivah, the size is irrelevant, they provided with something, its called toireh with yiras shomayin etc,(not that we meet those qualifications as you meet your “secular education”qualif.) as opposed to your big yeshivah that provided you with something called secular education”
what all these posters are against is guys like rabbi of maskilim, cantor esg, “not so’ pashute yid, less chumres,sinisent etc (b’h havent heard from him awhile so we dont have to put up with another un- chareidi, but we REALLY wish him health and gut yohr) who knimrod gibbor tzeid, come on ehrliche toireh site and mock when heilige gedolim talk about tznoius etc., or when meran hagoan hatzaddike elishev issues issur to certain weeklies (article chareidy weeklys may 3 ,08) they mock..(because truth hurts) and so with every issue that they give hisoirrous drasha…
to willi..we thing he can add your name to that list..
WE’LL STICK TO THE CD WITH THE NATURAL COMPUTER CHIPS THE HEILIGE BASHEFER IMPLANTED IN MY BRAIN. BY US ‘CHAREDI’, WE DONT READ NO MATTER HOW CLEAN A BOOK IS, IF ITS FROM KOIFRIM, ETC. SFORIM SAY JUST THE WORDS HAVE HASHPOEH ON THE READER , NOW ,NOW TAKE IT EASY, YOU JUST GO AHEAD AND DO WHAT THE BAR ILLAN CD PASKENS FOR YOU…BUT THIS IS THE SHITA OF HEILIGE ‘MYTH BEARING’ REVISIONIST’ REBBES ….”
In my humble opinion these maamarot do not seem to be following hevei kabeil et kol adam bsever panim yafot and hevei dan lkaf zchut
hevei dan lchaf zchut
It is an all around feeling that I have that you feel that Jews who don’t do what you do are lesser Jews. – Am I wrong that you feel that way?
al tistakel bakankan elah bmah sheyeish bo
This refers to all of the statements about hats and jackets and crocs. I am sure that HKBH cares more about what is in people’s neshomas then what they are wearing.
al tadin et chaveircha ad shetagiah limkomo
I was once at a funeral where a modern dressed man had a long grey ponytail and a kippah on his head. Most of the people there were chassidishe and chareidim. One of them walked up to him, flicked the ponytail and said mockingly “vos is dos”? in a very condescending way. The fellow calmly said. My brother has cancer and I am giving him this hair as a gift.
If you don’t want “opposing views” here then why do you link regular articles on YWN to the coffee room? I am very serious here. That’s how I landed up here. Why not just hang the internet coffee room site up in your ehrleche beis medrash?
I was very upset when I started reading comments. I always thought that there was a tolerance between yeshivish and chassidish. I guess I was naive! As all of the sides get bashed I wonder is this really how the KBH envisions tochacha? I for one am disillusioned!
jent, just wondering…do the ehrleche yiddin such as yourself believe in Pirkei Avot…like “hevei dan lchaf zchut?” or “al tistakel bakankan elah bmah sheyeish bo?”…or “hevei kabeil et kol adam bsever panim yafot?” or “al tadin et chaveircha ad shetagiah limkomo? or …just wondering?
Bogen, how can you know that “If someone is dressed INAPPROPRIATELY in SHUL by davening, it is unlikely he is having kavana.” INAPROPRIATELY = crocs on the feet? Give me a break!!!!!!!! I hope that HKBH judges you easier than you seem to judge others. How in the world can you pretend to know that someones kavanah is low because of what he/she is wearing on their feet? Moshe Rabbeinu spoke to HKBH barefoot. I wonder how he was able to manage his kavana?
This discussion is very scary to me. Why are we trying to “oser” what other people do? There are five “bein adam lamakom” dibrot and five “bein adam lachaveiros.” Whose business is it what people wear on their feet. I am certain that HKBH accepts sincere t’fillot from a croc footed person as easily as someone in full hat/suit getup who is not using proper kavanah, but worrying about the guy with crocs standing next to him. Get real!!!!!!!!!!!! Do any of you REALLY believe that HKBH cares more about feet than souls??????
Think Big – thank you for your response. I agree with much of what you said. Perhaps if the title had been “I didn’t do my research” rather than “cautionary story about hotels,” I would have responded differently. Even though they were not blaming the organization, people can easily figure out which hotel is being spoken about and they might have hurt the organization big time. I don’t agree that “”Tolerance” has no bearing on the discussion here!” – a little tolerance can go a long way.
jphone, b.h. someone here still has a sense of humor!
Unless the advertisement specified all of the frum accoutrements that were expected of the hotel, I don’t think that there is reason for such upset here, or certainly of ch’v trashing the reputation and parnasah of a truly kosher place. As someone mentioned there aren’t so many around any more. So a piano was playing by a non-Jew. I’m not sure which halacha was broken? Dagim instead of Basar was served for lunch with milchig, and Basar was served at six (still Shabbos). Nu? Again, maybe not the way we are used to, but if the food was plentiful and kosher was there so much to complain about? Were z’mirot truly out of the question? I’m not sure why. I bench out loud with my class in the Bronx Zoo if we’ve eaten lunch there. I have never had anything but positive curiosity from onlookers. Perhaps if we try to be a bit more tolerant, we could be an “ohr lagoyim” instead of a people who act as if it is all not perfect that “tumah” permeates. A great nation can create Kedushah anywhere. In fact had I been there I would have been proud to create a real Shabbos for my family in the real world that we live in! Again, there was wine, challah, kosher food, and more than a minyan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!