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If a kid is not listening to your rules, there’s always a reason. Kids don’t act up because everything was rosy. By kicking out the kid you’re ignoring the problem instead of fixing it so whatever problem made the first kid go off, even if it wasn’t the parents fault (could be the school, shul, a neighbor) that problem still exists and has potential to turn off the other kids.
You are naive if you think kicking a kid out for being a negative influence will leave a positive impression on the other children.
Exactly.
When a parent throws a child out of the house it is rarely, if ever, beneficial to the child or the rest of the children and usually only beneficial for the parents because then no one is reminded what ‘failures of parents’ they are. (I say that tongue in cheek because I don’t think it’s the parent’s fault that the kid went off but I think that when a parent kicks out their child, it’s partly because the parents think others view them that way.) When parents throw a child out of the house, the parents are throwing away their personal responsibility to take care of their children. If they throw the kid out of the house they are not trying to fix whatever caused the first kid to rebel and then, whatever happened that made the first kid ‘go off’ will make the rest of them go off too.
Allowing the government to dictate who can and can’t abort, takes your freedom to keep halacha away from you.The only people who have what to lose with the law being pro-life are the upstanding people who would never risk their lives going to some shady illegal abort clinic, even if halacha would want them to abort. Those whom you would like to prevent from aborting are going to find dangerous ways to do so if there is no other option.
There are times when Halacha calls for an abortion. However if the law made abortion illegal, if the mothers life was at stake there’s no way to know if the law would allow her to abort. Just something to keep in mind.
The rebbe should do whatever he would advise a follower.
If you want good hartzige music, listen to Yosef karduner and Shlomo/Eitan Katz.
in response to (c), there are those who hold that you don’t have to wash netilas yadaim after leaving the kever of a tzaddik (unless it’s in a cemetery).
People want to live in yerushalaim and the government wants to build up the capital city. Why does that bother you?
Yiden ought to daven with their Rav and it’s a shame that the people going to Uman do not have a warm Rav to be with.
Not sure where you got this idea from….
My husband goes to Uman and his Rav also goes.
The Lifta. It’s an abandoned Arab village by the entrance to the city on the Begin Highway. The views are gorgeous and it’s cool to see all the old houses. There’s also a little cave you could go inside.
I was in macys and suddenly they started playing ‘and then he potched me’ except in this song the word wasn’t potch.
I personally don’t go to concerts because I think concerts are boring. I do enjoy ball games but in any event it’s not the same thing as (besides for the obvious) I’m in a comfortable seat and my presence actually matters because without fans, the team is worth nothing.
The only think I remember enjoying from the siyum hashas were the stories in the speeches and the powerful amen yehei shmei rabba with thousands of people. I do remember being bored the rest if the time.
However I don’t see how any of this is a comparison to simchas Torah. On simchas Torah either 1) everyone deserves to celebrate equally because we’re all celebrating the same thing or 2) only men are supposed to celebrate because only men earned simchas Torah so the women should be happy that the men let us stand squashed and claustrophobic against each other while we get to watch what they earned knowing that we didn’t earn anything or 3) since a woman’s job is to be the encourager of Torah while not actually doing anything herself, also today she is supposed to watch the men do the ‘we are proud to be Jewish’ dance but shes not actually allowed to do anything other than watch the true heros express their feelings bec her role is to be an enabler but not to be Jewish.
Btw to satisfy number 1 I would be happy if there were a kumsitz. It doesn’t have to be the same as the men nor does it have to be in the same place as the men.
The last time I went to a siyum hashas was almost a decade ago so I don’t remember what I felt.
JF, you don’t have to want to go to shul to watch the men dance. It does not make you a better or worse Jew, whether or not you want to go to shul to watch the men dance.
I don’t go because it makes me feel like an spectator to Judaism. This day is supposed to be the happiest day in a Jew’s life and being stuck on the ‘other’ side, makes me feel like an afterthought at best.
If it was the learning itself that we are trying to show the chashivus of, then the day would be spent like Shavuos with people learning until all hours of the morning. However, apparently dancing is a way to express happiness in kedusha (eg. the men dance) so everyone should dance. I believe that if simchas torah is a day that we’re celebrating that we have the torah or that we get to learn Torah then everyone should be dancing, the men who do learn as well as the women who give everything to their husbands and children so that they can learn.
If it is the ‘wanting to be like the men’ that bothers people, there should be a kumzitz on Simchas Torah or something so at least we feel part of it. But staring at other people express their happiness while people tell us we are feminists (it’s a dirty word in yeshivisha shprach) because we also want to express our happiness, kind of makes the day less happy.
Lior, I think a better thing to ask would be if hypothetically there was a shul that legislates that only men over 40 were able to dance on simchas torah and the rest have to stand squished together on the other side of a curtain, how many men/boys under 40 do you think would be there? I would then ask the same question about a shul that doesn’t allow any men over 40 to dance.
And have you ever noticed that a child will call an 18-year-old who is married “Mrs. So-and-so” (or “Mr. So-and-so”), but will call a 50-year-old who isn’t married by his or her first name?
And an 18-year-old will be called a “married woman,” but a 50-year-old is a “single girl.”
IME I have not noticed any of the above.
Kids tend to call adults however the adult introduced him/herself.
Most people will refer to a 50-year-old as a woman and an 18-year-old as a girl regardless of their married status. Of course there are people who will still refer to an octogenarian as a girl and are already calling a ten-year-old a woman, but those are rare exceptions.
If all guys wouldn’t look into girls until the girls said yes then this whole problem would be reversed. Since boys are doing the sifting process they automatically have longer lists and automatically are going to be saying no more often. If the girls had to do research before it is suggested to a guy then the girls would be left with piles of resumes and the guys would feel like there aren’t enough girls to go around.
Ben Levi: It was never a mesora to encourage all the men in klal Yisrael to join kollel. Once we’re talking about doing something argumentatively positive even if it’s a change from mesorah.
I call my married friends ‘girls’, too
These aren’t all your friends.
True but at the age that they become women, their single counterparts are also women.
I don’t believe that singles disagree that society should value marriage to the extent that we do. They all (with rare exception) want to get married sooner rather than later.
They say we shouldn’t only focus on the fact that they aren’t married but they also say that we should constantly make lists of the single guys and girls (I call my married friends ‘girls’, too) that we know and try to set them up.
All they want is the same thing anyone ever wants. They want to be viewed by who they are as a person and not by their circumstance of which they have no choice. They want you to notice everything they have accomplished and not to notice the things that are not yet on the table. And, if you can think of a good shidduch for them, they want you to be proactive and set it up.
Where are you looking for? Two nice ones are the Carmel Forest Spa Resort in the Carmel region and the Ohr Canaan in Tsfat.
Keep climbing, the most attractive thing to a girl is confidence. If a guy acts confident with his looks (not snotty or egotistical) then most girls will think he is that attractive. There are many girls who are not attracted to shorter guys but there doesn’t need to be because there aren’t that many shorter guys. If too many girls were attracted to shorter guys there wouldn’t be anyone for the tall guys to marry! For every type of look, there is a person of the opposite gender who is attracted to that look. The most important thing is to be able to ‘pull off’ your looks.
Can you show how you did those?
Get an app that texts international
Risingsun: it’s because everyone is obsessed watching/talking/thinking about one thing but according to the Torah, we are not allowed to do so. Instead we like to talk about it in the only way we can by talking about tznius. It’s still the same conversation but from a different angle.
Ibump, thats what all the bais yaakovs teach (im not sure how they all got the same misinformation) but really adam told chava that she cant eat and then she out the extra chumra on herself. I think a more appropriate life lesson to take from this story is to know yourself and to take baby steps with your avodas hashem.
Golfer: “So- interjection, let’s get your verbs in order.She cannot be nichshal the rabbim no matter how short her skirts are.She is being Machshil the rabbim who are then Nichshahl in a terrible aveira. “
I used an example that is halachically muttar even if it isnt accepted by every posek. At a certain pointa man is accountable for looking, irregardless of how shes dressed and if a woman was truly in pain with others standards of tznius, she would score a lot more points up there if she davened for them then if she spoke lashon hara about these women.
Daasyochid: I’m not exactly sure what each one means but my point remains the same.
Halacha: tefach above knee is erva
Minhag: completely cover the knee
Chumra: 4 inches below
Shtus: I as a man a man or woman get to be the tznius police and determine everything else about this person based on how many inches her skirts are below the knee. I also get to say that if her skirt is just barely below her knee she is being nichshal the rabbim
I just want to give a disclaimer on my post. I don’t really believe my third point but I do think there is an agenda, far removed from sanctification of G-d’s name, that people spend so much mental energy trying to think of reasons we should hate or judge these women based on their dress.
I think it’s a combination of three things. First, women, naturally, are tzanua and more internal and naturally the only man’s opinion that we care about is our father or husband. Generally (NOT always), if a woman is vying for attention from other males, it’s being she’s not beingnmade to feel special by the ones who do matter. Second, when you break a woman’s midda by convincing her that she WANTS to be the breadwinner and that being a STAH is for sissies, you can imagine there will be repercussions. Third is that you notice what you want to. I look around and notice thaat the girls in my neighborhood do a ton of chessed. Other people, either the guys who like noticing or the girks who wish they could dress that way, complain that the shaitels are too long. I feel like if you really valued tznius you wouldnt be checking everyone out.
If you’re planning to go away for shabbos I would suggest you get a pack n play instead of a crib. I think they make more sense in general bec they’re portable and take up the least space. Also they frequently come with an attached changing table with all these handy baskets to keep spare wipes and diapers.
IMHO, not to be politically incorrect or anything all these discussions seem to be an attempt at a muttar way of discussing znus, while it is actually totally assur. I feel like if a girl really wanted a true opinion and if a guy really wanted to help someone, the conversation would be restricted to immediate family members.
My theory is that more boys go otd than girls so either convince more girls to go off or maybe we need to change something in our boys education system to find out what we’ve been doing wrong.
It’s actually closer to 104 boys born to 100 girls.
Are they boyfriend-girlfriend? Engaged? Married? It makes a big difference. If they’re engaged or married it should be a good thing. If they’re dating, I’ve never seen it end well when a girl changes herself in the hopes of ‘deserving’ a guy.
My theory is that there was something on the plane that someone wanted. It makes sense that someone would want the plane itself
Daasyochid: I don’t think that the reality is that they want their kids to stay in the bais madrash so if ppl will die it’ll be someone else. I believe that the reason they refuse to join the army is partly bec Torah is the greatest protection and also that they are afraid that the kids will be pulled by their tayvos as soon as they are tested. However, I do see how an outsider would see that, being that no one davened for the safety of eretz yisrael and only davened that their kids shouldn’t have to join.
It is appropriate to propose at the kotel. It can be argued if it is inappropriate to make a whole scene of it.
I read the article. It was horrible, disgusting, infuriating, insulting. But to say it was a lie is a lie. His word choice may have exaggerated the reality but nothing he said was false. A large part of his complaint could be rectified if leaders would speak out against the individuals who make a chillul Hashem time and again. When individuals continuously do the same thing and no one condemns it, to an outsider it seems as if it is promoted in that community.
At the end of the day, everyone hates everyone. The Jewish Press hates chareidim, ywn hates the modern orthodox and everyone hates breslav. I wait for mashiach everyday but if what I learned in kindergarten is true, that mashiach can only come when there’s achdus, maybe I should stop holding my breath.
Sam2: They are jailing boys for refusing to leave the bais medrash. No, they are not making Torah learning illegal but they are making it illegal for these boys to dedicate their lives to Torah. I do agree that many of the chareidim should join the army because many are goofing around and learning because it’s the only thing they know how to do and it’s the only way they’ll be accepted in the community. There is a difference though between them, and say, the men who learn in my husbands kollel. These chareidim cannot breathe without the Torah. They are true tzaddikim and if half a day would pass without them learning Torah they would be depressed. When I think chareidi, they are who come to mind. I think it would be a tragedy if they were forced away from the bais nedrash, even if the IDF allows them to learn half a day.
I just want to point out the chain of events, as I saw it. For months, since it was announced that They were going to cut finding, the leaders started complaining. However the first word I heard of this emergency atzeres was only AFTER boys were JAILED for learning Torah.
I didn’t see it in any way to be about the money bec a) they would have gathered months before and b) everyone is being targeted, not just chareidim. The way I see it is that they obviously want money but to be criminalized for learning Torah is intolerable.
Happysnappy +1
Yeshivish is a dress code. It also means that you send your girls to Bais Yaakov and your sons to yeshivas that don’t put much emphasis on a secular education and it means that your kids were raised with the mindset that kollel is the way. Yeshivish does not automatically equal a stricter level of observance, however there is a very high percentage of yeshivish that do practice an extremely strict level of observance.
If I’m home alone I don’t answer or sometimes, while keeping the door closed I tell them to come back when my husband will be home. My husband learned that the best way to give tzedaka is to make the poor person feel like he is the one who is giving and that the best way to do that is to have him teach you a little Torah. When my husband is home, he brings them in, sits them at a table, offers water and food and asks them for their insight on something he learned that day. He also learned that the derech of a poor person is that they are bashful so if they ask him to give more than he planned to give he politely refuses.
All these threads turn into the same thing. They start off innocently until a gang of men come along saying, ‘we are smarter bec we are men and you are dumber because you are women’ and then a woman comes along speaking for the rest of us saying, ‘it’s true. We are dumber because we are women’.
“I have noticed a tendency to try to create a nice picture of a piece of mussar they wish to impart by fabricating a conclusion based mostly on their own creative imagination of p’sukim, and less on solid sources. Men will argue a point based more on recorded precedent in a search for Emmes, not for a happy ending and justification of their own theorems.”
—This has a lot more to do with conditioning than with intelligence. I argued before that I believe that Bais Yaakovs should not have grades for Jewish subjects, and this is part of the reason. For 12+ years we are graded on, not on how well we learned the Torah but rather on how well we understand our teacher’s interpretation of the Torah. We are conditioned to learn Torah in the way that you explained with fluffy mussar lessons, while the boys are taught more to focus on what the Torah said, rather than on what they wished the Torah said. So it’s no wonder that our learning patterns later on in life reflect how we were taught to learn.
“That last comment makes you sound very bitter about SOMETHING. Why exactly should an enabler of Torah get all/most of the reward over the ones who learns ?”
I’m not bitter about it. Although my husband learns in a kollel, considering I’m a stay at home mom, I’m probably earning about 4 percent of his schar while he gets the rest.
Why should she get most of the reward? Let’s look at the give and take. A woman who is supporting her husband gives the following:
1) She is mevater on her emotional needs of wanting her husband and instead she sends him to learn, and it is hard for a woman to do this.
2) She takes care of all his physical needs by taking care of the kids and making money so that his only worry should be on finishing the next sugya.
3) She suppresses her feminine nature which desires nice, pretty (expensive) things, which she would most likely be able to afford if her husband went out to work, because she believes that Torah is more special than any jewelry.
4) Her sole ‘me time’ is when she goes to chinese auctions salivating about all the things she will never be able to afford.
While he:
1) Gets to learn Torah for a profession (the greatest pleasure in the world), surrounded by all his friends.
2) Gets kavod every time he figures out a good teiritz.
Except in a case where the wife is supporting the husband while he learns in kollel. Then he gets to keep maybe 4 percent. The rest of the schar goes to her.
I think it’s funny that we are graded on our Torah learning for 12 years (or more depending whether we go to seminary or Jewish college), but then we are called feminists if we are jealous we cannot learn Gemara.
My opinion is that is doesn’t make sense for us to be graded on Torah subjects, because it totally misses the point of what Torah learning is…..However, I think everyone can understand that it makes it confusing when we are FORCED to learn Torah for all those years in Bais Yaakov but if we try to learn what we are taught is ‘the most important thing to learn’, suddenly we are kofrim and misguided. It comes across as hypocritical, controlling and insulting.
“Have no fear. I am not stuck in a place I don’t like. But since I grew up with these hashkafos (more from my education than from my family), I still like to sort them out and hear what other people have to say. Also, it serves as a way for me to verify if people really DO think a certain way or if it is my biased perception. Sadly, I find that most of the time, yes, certain people think a certain way.”
I had thought you were trying to judge others, so I was trying to explain their POV. I realize now what your point is and I am sorry for misunderstanding you.
“”Rabbi Miller often said that 99% of divorces were avoidable and unnecessary.” I think this is an exaggeration.”
—like I said, he said many outrageous things.
BYM There are those who say that yeshivish community is sexist while many would argue that it is gender-sensitive.
I do agree with many of the things you say, except the part about not hearing about men’s tafkid in the home. You haven’t heard them because you’re a woman and you’re not invited to those classes. If you went to seminary and they told you about the woman’s tafkid, it’s because as a woman you should know your responsibilities. Telling you your husband’s responsibilities is just a way to create sholom bayit issues. However, when you get married you receive a document clearly dictating your husband’s responsibilities to you.
“What happens, when you reapetedly see that graphic artists became graphic artists because society and upbringing told them they should be graphic artists, but when they try to do something THEY want, based on ABILITIES, like become sales managers or copy writers, they do a great job at it. What happens when what I am saying applies to 80% of the graphic artists?”
—Everyone has a choice. If a person throws away her intellect and instead become society’s puppet, that is her choice. Many people are happier not having to make the big decisions and would rather live in a community that makes those choices for them. There are quick, cheap courses which enable one to learn these skills and many who do become, for example, graphic artists, do so for this reason. Unless one is extremely talented, no one is getting rich off any of the generic careers, but to live the lifestyle they want to lead, they only need enough money to get by.
“If some of the people on this thread would read his description of the ideal marriage relationship, they’d probably want to arrange public burning’s of his books. Not exactly sympathetic to feminist ideas.”
—He said some pretty outrageous things, not just about women, and I have had that thought ;-p
Regarding finances: A marriage is not two separate entities who live together. When one earns money, that spouse earns the money for both of them. The fact that one of them actually earned the paycheck does not mean that he or she has control over the other. It is both of their money and it is shared. Both spouses should have equal rights to the moneys earned.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think what you are getting at is that women seem to be the go-to scapegoats. I have that feeling but my relatives who are yeshivish disagree, which is why they are yeshivish and I am not. Every community has its positives and negatives and if you feel that a certain community has more negatives than positives, you should find a new community. You may think they are blind to not see things the same way you do, but actually each person is entitled to his/her own opinion so it is not that they are blind but rather that they disagree.
If someone feels ‘stuck’ in a certain lifestyle, that is their perception and not the reality because if they truly believed a different life was more appealing, they would follow it or else they are a wimp. There is no reason to feel bad for someone who lives in a community that you don’t respect, because if that person is living a certain life, most likely it is indicative of their beliefs. Bottom line is, you should not live in a community that you feel is offensive to you.
“You are right you won’t find any shiurim about “Man’s Tafkid in the home””
I disagree. I am constantly seeing another advertisement for a shalom bayis course. What are the speakers lecturing about if not the ‘man’s tafkid in the home’? Granted his tafkid is not the same as his wife’s but he does have his own responsibilities.
In a good marriage, a man will make his wife feel like she is saving the world by changing diapers and scrubbing the toilets. If a woman does not feel that she is making a real difference, either she should get out of the house more or her husband needs to do a better job of pumping her up or both.
As women, since we’ve been about 12, as long as our bodies have been healthy, we’ve been getting an announcement for a few days once a month of what our tafkid is. We don’t need a mitzva to tell us what our bodies already are telling us. Men are not given the same announcement so they need to have mitzvos to know what God expects of them.
Until I had kids, I thought being a STAH was the most lame ‘occupation’ in the world. Having a baby, however, changed my perception on everything. Being a mother is the most noble thing a woman can do. Yes, we all want respect and prestige, the more the better. But, when you finally have your own kid, the only person you know you need to be a hero for is your child.
I agree with many of the points you make, but still I’m confused. I’m not sure what your argument is. If you’re trying to say that you are greater for not wanting your husband to learn in kollel, there are people who agree with you already and those who disagree. No ones opinion is going to change. If you are asking if men have more worth, that is true to an extent but with about .00000000001% difference. If your frustration is that men don’t support their wives in following their dreams, that has nothing to do with Judaism bec Judaism has only the highest regard for eshet chayil and any good Jewish husband will view his wife as a heroine and if he doesn’t that’s a problem in their marriage and not a problem with Judaism.
From what you say, I feel like I am struggling with the same things as you so I am going to tell you what I tell myself. However if you feel the following doesn’t apply to you, feel free to ignore it.
You need to follow your dreams and you need to own your life. If you do what you thing is noble, people will respect it. If you spend your life feeling as if everyone is judging you and you feel that you need to justify it, only you will lose out. I know kollel families where both parents are Tzaddikim and I know kollel people who use I as an excuse to have month long vacations three times a year. The fact is that, even if people feel pressured to go into kollel, when they really know that they don’t want to, each person still has a choice and if a person chooses to lie to himself and live a life that ‘the neighbors’ respect, only that person is missing out. At the end of the day, there are many that want it for the right reasons and many who want it for the wrong reasons.