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A Sheep: maybe the husbands and fathers were motzei their women
I think we’ve all been wondering the same thing.
Curiosity: I was not offended and I would never be offended over some anonymous blogger on the internet, besides that nothing you said was offensive. I may disagree, however.
Some other woman was fiercely defending herself to your posts. I think she felt you judging her.
“My brother brought his date (right before getting engaged) a bag of flour and told her to bake him something.”
He’s a jerk. Or he’s funny. I’m deciding…
WIY: Unless she’s unstable, which you can tell from even one meeting, she will keep as control as the house as she feels you deserve. It’s basic human psychology that if a woman feels loved she will give everything in return but if she feels unappreciated she will resent you and lose interest in keeping things nice.
“In the frum world, why do women generally not talk to men that aren’t relatives? and why don’t frum men generally not talk to women who aren’t related??”
Not for the reasons your Bais Yaakov told you.
And the topic likely wasn’t deleted because it was inappropriate; it was offensive.
You can usually feel these things out. Just because someone was responsible at some past point in their life doesn’t mean it’s inherently part of their nature, and vice versa. You can usually tell how geshikt someone is by spending time with them.
“So what *is* the reason Hashem allowed men to marry more than one wife (but not vice versa)”
One answer is that shevet and chelek go by the father and it would cause too much confusion if we didn’t know who the father was.
But a man has an obligation to make his wife feel loved and he had to have her permission before marrying a second. And the second wife had to agree to enter a marriage where there already was another wife. It calls her a tzara because it’s telling the man that as much as he is allowed to have two wives it’s going to be huge pain for him.
“Cherrybim, before you start to wonder why they would ask about hair covering before, for example lashon hara, tzedaka etc- it’s quite obvious why it’s often used to guage level of observance……Hair covering is there for all to see easily.”
It’s quite obvious how well she observed that mitzva. It is no indication whatsoever of how observant she was of other mitzvos. Some of the absolute biggest baalos chessed I know do not cover their hair yet they are extremely dedicated to their avodas Hashem in every way.
it means cool. usually that he spends all day in the bais but dresses to the nines.
“There is a chiyuv (as per the Gedolei Eretz Yisroel) to vote for Pres. Obama, so that funding for Talmidei Chachamim & Kollel guys will not be cut off.”
The Gedolim expect us to do our part to ensure we keep this sonei yisroel as our leader because apparently God has decided that the only source of funding for our Kollelim and Talmidei Chachamim is through Obama.
I don’t believe it is meant to be provable. If God wanted us to keep the Torah because of a proof, He would have made the proofs easier to find. It is possible I’m wrong but I believe God wants us to earn our belief in Him and in the Torah. We are supposed to keep it because we believe it’s true but he wants us to work for it so we actually deserve to believe in Him.
Actions do not determine rishus. Rishus is determined by a mindset.
“some yodle comes along the highway and matirs what is assur”
Is that how it is? He matirs what is assur? Maybe they aasur that which is muttar.
Frummy: “If you know of R’ Keleman’s proof, which follows your line of reasoning, we can skip several steps and boil his ‘bomb’ down to the fact that no other religion has ever made such a claim as ‘national revelation'”
This one I will argue because you’re quoting him wrong. I remember hearing from his lips that there is another religion that claims this. He did not tell us which religion it was, but the Mormons have it written explicitly in their bible of a mass revelation.
I was a cynical BY student and these proofs never worked for me. I believe because I know it’s true but one needs to believe first for a proof to be entirely irrefutable. I was going to post a contention for every proof offered thus far, my only purpose being to show that one need believe because he knows it’s true and not because someone told him a feel good story that made him want to believe. But my intention is to build other’s emunah and not to open anyone’s mind to more questions. I keep the Torah because it’s true and not because of these ‘cool’ proofs because every single one can be argued.
Sell the Torah for what it is; genius and perfect! No ‘proof’ will bring any thinking person to become shomer Torah.
My proof is that everything within the Torah is brilliant. All the mitzvot make such beautiful, perfect sense. I know with certanity that if I managed to keep all the mitzvot perfectly and I lived in a society that did as well, I would live the absolute happiest life possible.
I went off for a few years because the BY education I was given would twist and manipulate the Torah using this random perush and skipping that concept to make it more fluffy and appealing. I came back because I discovered the Torah in it’s naked truth and I recognize that there is nothing more genius than the Torah.
What is the lashon of the Shulchan Aruch? Or at least the siman/si’ef
lobster. and clams. I’m wicked curious!
“That’s a krum outlook.”
Some women need mental stimulation. Shocker, I know.
You’re suggesting this omdim tzefufim concept is the universal problem. Did I understand right?
Tell him how afraid you were for his life. Tell him you trust that he didn’t put himself in a suicidal situation but a parent’s love their children is inborn so you don’t have a choice but to be afraid for their welfare.
“Zionists said outright that they didn’t want old Jews or infirm Jews coming to Palestine. A cow is worth more to them than such Jews, they said.”
Do they still say that? Or do they send their sons and daughters to the front lines so you can live?
Sam2: just a question of semantics (on how I understood it).
“They are because it is Assur to have any pleasure from any interaction with a woman who is forbidden to you (including a Niddah).”
Isn’t the translation of a niddah, any woman who a man is forbidden to? I assumed Niddah to be an adjective (that she is a niddah towards other men) but you just translated it as a noun (that it becomes her identity).
Sam2: I hope I can explain it as well as my husband explained it to me. No one person can possibly fulfill all 613 mitzvot by oneself. Some mitzvot are meant for men, some for women, some for converts, etc.. There is a shlaimus we achieve through keeping the mitzvot. When Yaakov said ‘im Lavan garti’ (meaning that he kept the Taryag mitzvot) he was saying that he had achieved the same shleimus as if he had kept the full 613. He achieved whatever level can be attained through fulfilling the mitzvot. He did not actually follow the pshat of all 613 of the mitzvot (which is impossible in any case) but he was as complete of a person as if he had.
My husband explained with more sources but I’m not so learned so I’m repeating what i remember from what he said.
“The Rambam in the Moreh (dunno precisely where)”
Is it by Hilchos Melachim or is that something else?
The Torah had to have had different rules then because there are meforshim that tell us that the Shevatim married their sisters….
Also aren’t the halachot of negiah all assumed based on the halachot of a man to his wife?
Weren’t all these halachot born after the situation with Amnon and Tamar?
“ultimately, the reason why any of us here is “on” the “d” is because his/her own choices. Parenting takes us only so far”
Granted, every person is responsible for his/her life. Throughout the whole world over, it’s not merely the allure of the outside element that causes people to change their life from their childhood. It’s usually a reflection of how they were treated in someway or another.
“Call me crazy or different but I never understood this whole excitement for dating and getting married that my friends had and frankly now that I know what I know and have seen many couples in action and very few happily married why would any single (if he or she isnt particularly bored or lonely) want to get married?”
I was like you. I loved my life and had no interest in confining myself to marriage. Especially since I’ve seen so many marriages turn awry.
I no longer share your mindset. It took incessant nagging from my bubby for me to even agree to talk to a shadchan but God made the first one be my bashert. People are frequently desperate to get married and they end up with someone they don’t deserve (for better or for worse). There is no comfort and happiness in the world as when two soulmates find each other. There’s a magnificent, deep connection two soulmates have. You know you’ve found your soulmate when you’ve found yourself in a better version. That I should find someone so unbelievably perfect for myself, was something I never could have dreamed of. Every day is beautiful because I know I can trust him to give him my life and future and I know he has done the same.
I didn’t believe in soulmates. I thought the whole concept of bashert was bogus. It took until this that I realized without any semblance of doubt that there has to be a God. God was screaming His existence throughout our entire dating and through the wedding and up until now.
Marriage is beautiful and God is wonderful for us the gift of marriage. Others may have bad experiences but it’s only because they either haven’t married their bashert or because they weren’t ready for their bashert when they got married.
Everyone should work on what works best for oneself. Each step one makes in the direction of being a G-d fearing Jew is considered beautiful to G-d. Some will choose to be extra careful with halachos like shmiras halashon and the like. Others will choose do be machmir with something like chalav stam.
It’s unfortunate that you find people trash talking others during the aseres yemai teshuva but it’s also unfortunate that you choose to judge them during the aseres yemai teshuva. If the lack of yiras shamayim in a another yid gives you so much pain, use the chance to be mekarev them by gently reminding them of the seriousness of the time.
Curiosity: He wanted anyone who believed he/she could gain from the experience to come. Any woman who wants to go, can. Most prefer not to go for Rosh Hashana when it’s swarming with men.
“Stories like this make me sick.”
You read way too deeeply into this story.
Sam2 and MDG, you are right. To experience before you try is not acceptable advice as a universal rule.
“And for all those who are so concerned about the wives, have youi asked a Breslover wife if she minds??? Or are you just assuming they have a problem with their husbands going??”
I speak for myself and the other Breslover wives I know. This year the men will be there almost a week but we know it’s crucial to our family’s kedusha of the entire coming year, that he go.
“Saying “tznius gone too far”, r’l, is akin to saying “kashrus gone too far” or “chesed gone too far”. No such thing.”
It is possible to take anything too far.
Experience it before you challenge it.
Chemistry isn’t a reason to go out again. I don’t see how you can be sure without having thought it through.
I feel like even if feels the other is from Loserville they will feel obligated to go out again even if they know there’s no future.
“Just comes to show how ungrateful women are.”
Two things: being a woman is a thankless job because generally the only people who notice are her family members whereas the men had hundreds of thousands of people all gathering only for their honor and when in reality, without the wives it would not have happened.
B, why is the fact that they didn’t answer a generic public thread a proof that they lack appreciation?
Rumor has it some yeshiva bachurim were pulled over for speeding and played it out like they didn’t know hebrew. Every time the cop started talking the driver would say, ‘no understand ani tapuach’ the more frustrated the cop got, the more the driver would insist ‘ani tapuach’ until one of the wise allecks from the backseat called out, ‘kulanu tapuchim’.
Supposedly they got let off.
I feel like it’s bribery to tell the other person that you enjoyed. Once she hears from him that he enjoyed, she feels an obligation to go out again. And vice versa.
Just say good night and each side should be able to make a personal decision independent of the other. And this is besides that it shouldn’t be a spur of the moment decision.
“Torah Temimah: Girls do not have the intellectual stability and are, therefore, unable to make profound inquries with a sharp mind and appreciate the depth of the Torah. It is possible thay by using their own minds, they will transgress the Torah.”
Oh.
If you’re truly learning for such holy reasons, why do you need validation?
Thank you choppy for your insight. Square peg requested a source.
People enjoy talking about themselves and they like when they can associate with whatever topic comes up in a conversation. Whenever I want to give advice, I do it by way of talking about myself and describing what I would do in such a situation. The other person always ends up justifying what they do (without me ever having said anything about them!) and they usually get the hint on their own without any prodding.
It’s a matter of preference for guys just as it is for girls. I know many guys who prefer curly hair.
I know many women who would be offended enough to expose more. When the mussar is more general, most people are most accepting because they don’t feel they are being personally attacked. I’m with gavra.
I don’t profess to be the representative for all women. You do and you should accept that not everyone appreciates strangers telling them how to run their life.
Everyone stop staring at other people. Bustercrown: Why are you checking her out long enough to count how many inches are exposed?
Mammele: You crack me up. You assume all women are wired the same so what works for you will work for every woman you encounter.
You have no idea of the inner fight the woman may have had that morning and ultimately chose the skirt that was a couple inches longer despite her desperately wanting to wear the other one that made her look better. You coming to yell at her is telling her that the huge effort she made was worthless.
I’ve done that back in the day. I’ve almost cried as I put on a skirt that was maybe an inch above my knees as opposed to mid-thigh, and been so proud of the progress I’d made, and then told I’m being machshil the men. So the next day I wore the shorter skirt and didn’t think twice. If I’m going to be yelled at, at least I should feel I deserve it.
Or just marry someone who’s growing. You don’t have to compare who is frummer now because you know it’s a work in progress.
You agree they’re attractive. What’s the question?
“I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry at yours Haha”
I was commenting on this “young women who are frum enough to be shidduch dating”.
I know some very solid Bais Yaakov girls in the parsha who have the ideals of a life of Torah but they want a husband who will go out to work.