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anon for this,
That was not my point at all! I did not mean to say that we should eat meat from animals that we are killing anyway for klaf. I was just disproving “Give Me a Break’s” philosophy that we are permitted to kill animals but H-m would prefer we don’t. If we have so many mitzvos and minhagim around animals, it is obviously not cruel to kill them!
If it would be the wrong thing or even rather not to kill animals to eat/use would Hashem ask us to do certain things through cruelty? Are you saying that we must be cruel to animals for a Mitzva but nothing more? If it would be cruel wouldn’t Hashem, HaKol Yachul be able to come up with a different way of performing them?
About your point that it is not an avaira to refrain from eating meat, I agree with that completely! That is why I said that the reasoning behind it makes all the difference! Hashem knows our thoughts and He knows the reasons and thoughts behind our actions. If someone does not eat meat because he thinks it’s cruel, in essence he is saying that Hashem gave us mitzvos based on cruelty. If he is not eating because of a different reason, that is an other story.
It’s not the action, it’s the reason for the action.
Mariner, The Geula does not come until Mashiach. We cannot force the Geula upon ourselves and bring Korbonos as far as I know. (Weren’t the people who fled Egypt before the right time killed?) Please tell me if I am wrong and what is your source.
mariner,
WHY would we be allowed to bring Korbonos before we have the Bais Hamikdosh???
It really is sad that boys will not date heavy girls. I know someone very well, who is very smart, has a really great personallity, is a huge balabuste and happens to be beautiful! She is heavy (not extremely but heavy) and I know she will have a hard time.
What mariner says is definitely true. I definitely agree that no one (from either gender) should marry anyone that they do not feel attracted to. However, the point is that not every boy would inherently not feel attracted to a heavy girl. This girl that I mentioned above, I think it is very possible that many boys would not have a problem with her weight if they would not come with preconceived notions. If all boys are told keep away from fat, they will keep away from fat!
So if a boy naturally is disgusted by the extra fat on a girl’s body or face, he should definitely stay away but it should not be because of his mother but because of HIM. I truly think that whoever gets this girl as a wife is really lucky!
Mayan_Dvash,
It is not necessarily skinny people who can experience fertility problems. People with annorexia (nervosa) can have such problems. I know a girl who just got engaged and I keep hearing that the boy is tops tops tops. She is also tops tops tops. She is very smart, SLIM, well-dressed, frum, capable, talented etc. She has one problem. She is scared of food. I really believe that she has an eating disorder! I even convinced someone to call her mother to try to deal with it but i think the problem CAME from the mother. Anyway, I wish her well and hope she got over her problem or that she never had it and I just imagined it (but I don’t think so.)
P.S. The boy the second girl is engaged to was redt to the first girl. Not sure what happened to the shidduch…
anon for this,
Firstly, please explain how we can use skins of animals for Mitzvos without torturing and/or killing them? Are we to look through the forests and find animal corpses with salvagable skins on them? Or maybe “Give me a break” will tell as that there are some shitos that allow human skins to be used?
You say that there is an inyan of eating meat… because of simcha. I am not arguing if that is the reason or not as I am not even sure. What I do know is that the reasoning behind it would make a difference. If you are refraining from eating meat because of health reasons or because you don’t like it; that is one thing (even though there are people that eat a tiny drop just to be yotzei but that’s a different point..) But if you are refraining from eating it because you think you are above the Torah and have more logical morals, I highly doubt that is an acceptable reasoning.
Give Me a Break,
The following are some examples including using animals not necessarily for eating: Shabbos, Korbon Pesach, general Korbonos, mezuza, sefer tora, tefillin. These are a few examples. I’m sure others can think of more.
My brother had this same question but with different reasoning. He said that he has no clue about matching (duh…) so he doesn’t understand, if you want to match, why wear black and white??? Either all black or all white! THAT is matching! (I think he was kidding-I hope!)
mariner,
Thanks for the makor
GiveMe A…,
If you feel that it is a nice thing to refrain from eating meat etc even though we are specifically encuoraged for this… Then you can also believe that you have to have tznius if there are many ways to inference tznius.
Teenager,
This might offend you but it is for your good. Please forget about this silly blog and see someone who can really help you sort through these issues. Forget about helping all teenagers in your situation. That is really commendable but that is not what you should be concentrating on. If you are really honest about all your post and not some bored soul goofing around, you really need to see someone to sort through your issues. You need to help yourself and then you can help the world. Please don’t take offense with this but please take it seriously. I think this thread should be closed. It is doing more harm then good. You can re-open an other thread if you really just want to discuss the kosher hangout issue and this time leave out all your personal issues that you are going through. That should be dealt with anywhere other than cyberspace.
Good luck and I wish you well!
anon for this,
I am aware that there are such things in the torah that we are allowed to do but rather not. But why are we encouraged to eat/use animals? There are Mitzvos in the Torah that we need to use animals for in order to fulfill. Do you agree?
I live in Israel and work for an American company and gotta work on Chol Hamoed!
intellegent:
You really didn’t read my comment. I said quite clearly that the animals of those times owed their lives to people, which is CERTAINLY not the case today. “Do you think that Hashem CH”V does not have the strength to tell us not to do something that He’d prefer we don’t???” Sure he does, but don’t forget, we are ALLOWED to.
Why would H-m allow us to do something that He’d prefer we don’t. I know that there are cases of things that we can take on ourself so I will ask further why we would be encouraged to eat meat and fish on Shabbos and other examples such as korbonos etc. which you still did not explain. (Besides for MITZVOS such as Tefillin, mezuzos that require that we use parchment?)
I hear that you say that so long as we were kind to the animals we were allowed to eat meat but now that they are treated cruelly we may not. Assuming that that makes sense, are you trying to say that the above cited mitzvos are null today? If so that is called putting your intelligence and logic above Hashem. The greeks felt that their minds were on top and there was nothing higher than their logic. The Maskilim also felt that way.
Woops!
(I’m talking about life and death situations).
I meant to say I’m NOT talking about life and death situations).
It seems to me that the main difference with work on Chol Hamoed and work on actual Yom Tov is that you may not work on Yom Tov no matter what (I’m talking about life and death situations). However, on Chol Hamoed, if it involves a major loss (meaning not just the days’ salaries but loss of job or a huge amount of money like a business transaction that can only come about by doing it then etc. ) you may work. But it is not so simple that you can work if it is convenient that day.
Keep in mind that being mevasa a yom tov is compared to serving Avoda Zara so think twice.
Give Me a Break,
Stop while you’re ahead! (You’re not really ahead anymore but stop non-the-less!)
Give Me a Break
Do you really believe that Hashem would specifically allow us to eat animals but would prefer that we dont?! Do you think that Hashem CH”V does not have the strength to tell us not to do something that He’d prefer we don’t??? Why are we told to eat meat and fish on Shabbos? What about all the Korbonos? And WHAT about Sa’ir La’azazel?????
Re: your comment to Bentzy18, if he is right that is the best case scenerio. If you truly believe what you say, you belong in Cheirem. I am sickened by your comments.
Shindy,
Try putting the challa in the freezer and taking it out a few hours before Shabbos. At some point (preferable when the challa is pretty much defrosted) put it in the oven for about 20 minutes on a low setting or until it gets crisped. I find that it comes out any time as delicious as fresh challa (which I barely ever have because I am way to nervous to make Challa on Friday!)
You’ll get to do the mitzva of Hafrashas Challa as well as make more than one batch at a time. Try it. (you don’t have to tell your family it’s frozen; they will probably never know!)
yoshi,
I am not sure if your argument is necessarily correct in all situations. I would ask a Rav. It is not as simple as you think. I happen to unfortunately have to work on Chol Hamoed as I would be fired if I would not work then. (There are mostly frum employees in the company and there are very good reasons for the company having to stay open on Chol Hamoed and if we would have a choice we would all take off on chol hamoed so they cannot allow that).
There are many situations that one must work on chol hamoed but in some situations it is actually assur. Not just a plus to take off but Assur.
Ask your rav!
SJSinNYC,
Okay, I worded it wrong. You’re right, in recent years the frumkeit went down. Whatever the case is I heard that they had to enforce rules stricter and they changed a lot of things. (It is now 4 weeks and 4 weeks as apposed to 6 and 3; I don’t know if that has anything to do with anything but just by the way).
Also, if you noticed the advertisements recently, it mentions something that only people who are willing to be tzniusdig or frum (don’t remember exactly what but somehting to that effect) are welcome… So obviously they felt they had to change something about their policy. You are obviously coming from a very different background than me so I guess it’s hard for us to understand eachother as we are sort of speaking a different language.
To all those who can’t imagine marrying someone who you are not yet in love with, blelieve me that I know plenty of people in my circles who did not feel any “love” to their future spouses who got married and are very happy and feel anytime as much “love” to eachother as those who were supposedly in “love” before they got married. That is the Torah way. I have a friend who recently told me that she told her Kalla teacher during her engagement that she doesn’t “like” her Chassan (she meant to say that not that she has anything against him just that she doesn’t have any feelings towards him.) Her Kalla tearcher, told her that that is just fine and that is the way we do things. You don’t necessarily have to feel anything during engagement. She is very happily married.
We are influenced by the secular world and think that “first comes love than comes marriage…” but in fact that is not always necessarily the case.
I am not necessarily trying to influence the way you do things (I don’t think you really care what I think and will not change your ways based on my comment…) but I hope this will at least influence you to respect the ways it is done in our circles as that is the ideal way. So if you don’t feel up to it don’t but at least you should look up to people who do it like this instead of condemning it.
They are SICK.
Give Me a Break
Are you Jewish and believe in the Torah??? Do you also believe as all the secular animal rights meshugayim do, that it’s worse to be cruel to an animal than a human? The Germans were very kind to their pets….
havesomeseichel,
You seem to take offense that someone only thought of a solution for Brooklyn. He did not necessarily forget that there are Jews west of the Hudson River, but the solution he thought of was for Brooklyn. If there is a nation wide solution that would be great but that does not mean that if it is possible to do something for brooklyn we should not so as not to leave out anyone else.
Who says our clothes need to show our personality? Clothing is not a means of expressing ourselves in my opinion. There are better ways of doing that.
BTW,
Just to mention a point that I think fits in here. Camp Sternberg had a policy that they had minimal rules. Their ideology was to have the campers improve based on good influence from staff and not on rules. they had rules but minimal. It did not work! Come to think of it doesn’t Rabbi Greenwald live in Monsey? Maybe he would be willing to be involved! I really don’t know much about him or anything but the little I know, I think he is involved in these things and he is NOT “Yeshivish”!
lammed hey,
You are 100% right on your point that he is a boy and I am a girl!!!
Taavos are SO different. Of course girls can have taavas. But boys way more! It’s natural and nothing to argue about. Even if everyone has a natural taava, I think for girls it needs to be triggered and even once triggered for boys it’s way more intense.
I never had a taava before I was married and can say the same for all my friends!
teenager,
What you say to S is true. There is definitely a lot of problems in the chassidish world and all over. But there are problems wherever you go! That does not make the whole system bad.
Feif Un
FYI, I had NO such desires either. If you never tasted chocolate you can’t have the taava. If you never had a girl-boy relationship or even a “taste” of it you can’t have a taava. You might say that there is no kuntz to not have a taava if you were never exposed but we are not looking for “kuntzin”. We don’t believe in putting ourselves in Nisyanos. Just like we do our best to protect our physical health/safety we need to protect our spiritual especially something that could lead to such terrible ramifications.
I think someone mentioned that they should go with the parents no?
Also, is that how it works? Can you just show up at the school? No application necessary?
Why doesn’t everyone send in applications on the same day? they would be suddenly flooded!
To add to Charlie Brown’s point, I think you should think twice before posting your email all together! It’s Daaaaangerous.
postsemgirl,
I suppose that you are referring to the fact that everyone thinks that they are middle of the road. That is human nature.
SJSinNYC,
I hope you didn’t think I was referring specifically to you. I was just saying something that I noticed in general. No need to defend yourself.
You say that it would be nice if the more “machmir” side would say, “That is the more lenient opinion, I hold by the more stringent”. It would also be nice if the more “lenient” side would say that maybe they are wrong and life is all about moving up. Of course maybe their more “lenient” opinion is within the boundaries of Halacha but maybe not. Instead of attacking maybe think that you are wrong just as you would like to think that the more machmir person may be wrong.
Again, this is not referring specifically to you. I did not have any specific posts in mind.
My dating, though much different than S was probably closer to hers than most other people on this post. I met my husband 4 times. Each one was quite a few hours but it was still “just” 4 formal meetings. The fifth time we met was before the L’chaim. I went to see his family (I had already met his parents) and then he drove me home. We went to see his grandmother and then was the L’chaim.
We are B”H very happily married. Our parents both checked each of us out before hand and there was no need for more than that.
FY”I, I just read a book about R’ Shmuel Aharon Yudelevitch (it’s really good, written in story form not like a typical gadol book…) anyway, the girl he married was the daughter of R’ Aryeh Levine. For 3 years he spent a lot of time in their house, basically lived there and when R’ Aryeh Levine suggested his daughter as a shidduch, R’ Shmuel Aharon said yes but he needs to see her first! After spending THREE years in the house, he never NOTICED her!
I am not saying that we can’t have different ways of going about a shidduch but don’t think that it is necessary, natural, or ideal to get to know boys upon boys upon boys (and vice versa) befoer you get married!
Teenager,
I really suggest that you forget about getting help from this blog and either email smartgal or whoever else you think can help you as there really is answers and help for your situation. Don’t give up but don’t keep your hopes on this blog. It’s just for nice discussions and hearing opinions nothing more.
mariner,
Doesn’t H-m watch over the Torah (Ba’al Pe’eh as well) that we should be learning the right stuff? Weren’t there Gedolim in previous generations who spent much time with a lot of mesiras nefesh and Siyata D’Shmaya to preserve texts and make copies that are 100% accurate? I may be wrong but please clarify as you seem to be very knowledgeable (I don’t mean to be sarcastic, I’m seriously asking)
muchcommonsense,
Who is not calm? By the way as a general rule, I find that when people are told to
“CALM DOWN”, they tend to get even tenser!
teenager,
As far as I know, there is nothing wrong with me right now. I’ve heard from people a lot smarter than me and you who criticize very big kiruv organizations for doing things that are not so Kosher to bring people closer to yiddishkeit. I am not judging you about what you are going through and hope you will come out of it a lot better than you were to begin with, but just know that as i’ve said before, The end does not justify the means.
Agree. I would like to add that I think there is a common misconception on this blog. I think many people think that it is not allowed to make fun of and “yell” at people regarding their torah beliefs that may be on a lower standard. And they make sure to defend themselves. (ie. who are you to say what is torah… etc…) But when it comes to talking to people who believe that it is imperative to keep a higher standard in certain areas you can make fun and yell!
In other words, if someone is less frum you must be nice to them but if someone is frum you can treat them like dirt!
cantoresq,
You might be right to an extent, but again, the end does not justify the means. We may not do things against the torah in order to achieve a good outcome. I would consult a Rav if such issues (hopefully not) do come up.
all my grandparents went through the war, but my maternal grandfather was affected the worst (lost a lot of family, went to aushwitz, etc…). My mother does not buy any German products and I follow suit. The only acception is the Braun and Bosch.
abcd1234, do you feel it is wrong to buy any products whatsoever or just whatever you can find an equal alternative?
My grandfather refused to let his wife buy a braun food processor until his friend told him, you are making your wife work so hard grating all her potatoes etc. by hand rather than buy something from Germany? So on that he gave in.
if moshe rabeinu dressed like the goyim of his time, hten why were the jews praised for keeping their mode of dress?
What’s the tune?