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Torah613Torah, Why don’t you ask your neighbor for her cookie recipe?
WIY, if you were really so concerned did you offer to help the mother with all her groceries?
One time I was in the local frum grocery and there was a small baby in a wagon sitting alone. Nobody was with the baby and it was soon after the unfortunate Leiby incident. So I waited with the baby until the mother came back. I told her it was not safe what she did and pointed out that she took her pocketbook with her but did not take her baby. She agreed with me.
Some call them Rabbi to honor the Torah that they learn. It’s appropriate.
chicken soup!
It is really awful and I would not wish this on my worst enemy. May Hashem help them come back to us!
Write or Wrong, unfortunately it is very competitive to get children into yeshivos these days. Do NOT take it personally. Don’t let it get to you. Yes, it’s awful but it’s not only you, it’s all of us. Moshiach has to come we need it so badly. In the mean time, I wish you hatzlocha. You are going through rough times.
Some of the OTD kids do become addicted to drugs and are unproductive and some (like my child) graduate college, never do drugs, and hold down jobs.
Crisis of the week: It is not good news that the OTD kids are getting a decent education now that they are off the derech and out of yeshiva.
Because later on they get married to goyim. Not good news. 🙁
Listen write or wrong, I live here in america so I don’t exactly know how it works in Eretz Yisroel but I do know that it is hard for everyone to get all their kids into school and you must be aggressive about it, just like the other parents are for their children. It is very competitive to get into yeshivos and hopefully another school will accept him with no problem but sometimes you have to be your child’s advocate to get him accepted. As they say, the squeaky wheel gets greased first!
Thanks Bored 214
Can the Rov that he was studying with call up the Rabbi who did the interview and vouch for your son? How about your son’s Rebbes?
So maybe get a bread machine. That would be cheaper.
how many cups of flour would go in a bread machine?
At least he went to visit the museum.
I am sorry that your son was a victim of bullying. Why won’t you ask your pediatrician for a recommendation of a good therapist? Hopefully your son will agree to go but you can’t force him, he has to be ready. Good luck!
My husband still opens doors for me. It’s a very gentleman thing to do.
ShalomToYou: Ask the shaddchan for a picture of the girl. If she looks nice, give it a try. You might be passing up your beshairt! Hatzlocha!
Isn’t it dangerous to be in a plastic bag on an airplane? What if chas v’shalom there is some mishap, an accident or plane malfunction and you need to follow the instructions quickly?
I don’t know who took the picture of him but it wasn’t nice because now people are making fun.
My door is always open and just like I would not cut off my leg or arm I cannot cut off my child.
I have never met a parent who completely cut off their OTD child. but I suppose they are out there. 🙁
Do you have a child who is OTD, zahavasdad?
It was awful but my child was not happy at home and wanted to move out. And was old enough to live independently, drive a car, etc. It was something that everyone in the family needed and was in agreement on. I knew that this had to be, but I still cried my eyes out.
That is great that your son is showing signs of ambition! Encourage and praise him in this direction. excellent.
The years my kid lived at home were not easy ones. Finally it became obvious to us that it just was not working out anymore because everyone was unhappy so we helped our child get his own place to live (of his choosing). I cried my eyes out when he moved out, it was a very hard thing for me but we had no choice. I think it was the right decision. But that did not happen when my kid was your son’s age, too young in my opinion. We can’t worry about other parents who throw out their kids, we have to take care of our own in the best way we know how. and I agree we certainly cannot judge.
Hopefully you won’t have to make this choice, Write or Wrong, but I cannot stress enough how important it is for your son to have some sort of schooling/ parnosah so he can support himself.
How old was the child when they were “thrown out?” If a kid is sixteen or seventeen he is basically being tossed out into the streets.
That’s why I think it would be in the best interests of Write or Wrong and her family AND her son if he goes to school and gets some sort of parnasa under his belt. That way if he is in his twenties and still making your lives miserable he can move out and get his own place. But moving out because he also wants out, not tossing out/thrown out which I think is awful.
thanks!
What is .66 cup of oil? thx for the recipe.
Monsey Yid, have you ever heard of SINAAS CHINAM?
That would be great if write or wrong’s son could have his own room. I agree with you Aries.
Sometimes I think that these OTD kids just need to mature and grow up a little! Doesn’t matter what you do, or who gives you advice, nothing helps, except time.
When does your son go to the army? I think it would be very good for him, to get away from this bad bunch of kids he hangs out with. And hopefully give him self esteem.
Is there any organization in Israel that helps kids who are off the derech and their siblings? In america, Project Yes used to have a mentoring program for siblings. They would go out once a week to do something fun and talk.
Aries 2756, I very much like what you have to say. Unfortunately it is probably hard for write or wrong to follow your good advice, as her son is trying very hard to make everyone miserable.
That’s exactly like we used to feel, write or wrong. Almost like we didn’t have a home any more.
Maybe he will want to make plans for himself this summer, he is certainly not happy at home.
Write or Wrong, I am so sorry that it is so hard for you. 🙁 Holidays are hard when you have a kid who is OTD that is making life miserable for everyone else. Hoping that once he goes back to school you will have some relief.
So what are your options? And what are your son’s plans (if he shares those with you?)
I also feel bad for your other children especially those who share a room with him. I hope things will get better very soon.
Maybe your family could go away for a shabbos and he could go to one of his friends that shabbos. It might be good for all of you!
Write or Wrong, on yom tov I had a chance to look at our local Jewish paper and I was reading about the young couple who were killed in a terrible car accident after Purim. A sweet young couple who were expecting their oldest son (he also nebach didn’t make it). How terrible their parents must have felt this Pesach sedar not to have the young couple with them, knowing that they will never be with them in this world.
My child was not with us for the sedarim. Am I happy about it? No, but I know that he/she is well and I do get a visit now and then.
Write or wrong, I know your heart is breaking but you must work on yourself to keep things in perspective and be there for your husband and other children and show your son who is OTD that you will always love him and he is always welcome in your home.
Do you mean that he does not have to be frum in order to be loved by Write or Wrong and her family? It would be a lie to tell him that he doesn’t have to be frum, since WOW feels that a Jewish person should believe in Hashem and the Torah and do mitzvos. Of course they would love for him to be frum but they will love him even though he isn’t. Their love for him is not conditional.
I understand your pain, write or wrong. May Hashem give you the strength to continue and you should see much nachas.
Stay away from the Pesach cakes that are loaded with sugar and oil. Have lots of fruit and veggies and veggie soup. Lean proteins and low fat dairy products. Don’t bring to much nosh into the house like potato chips and chocolate and things that call your name. Matzah is good but it is very dense so watch how much you are eating. Good Luck!
That is sad. Seems to me that he really could use someone to talk to. Maybe he will eventually agree when he realizes how unhappy he is. I feel badly that you have to live like this. I hope you have someone you can talk with, this is a very hard situation.
Does he refuse to go for counseling?
Does it really matter what we think?
I am also thinking that a chometz kitchen makes sense.
Canola oil is kitniyos.
He will feel connected to you because of your love and acceptance of him, not because you buy him cigarettes. I think the reason that he rejects your shabbos food is because if he ate it he would feel guilty for being mechallel shabbos and hurting you. So don’t take it personally.
You are important to him and always will be. He is just going through a rough tekufah. patience, patience….
Write or Wrong, you buy cigarettes for your son? Why is that? As far as job hunting, you can help him out by inquiring for him, the worst that can happen is that he will say no.
It is very normal to look back at the time when he was frum and feel bad about what he is up to now. But Boruch Hashem he is healthy and alive. I am so sad for the families that lost their children and grandson in the car crash in williamsburg. Boruch Hashem your son is alive and IY”H will come back to yiddishkiet very soon. Keep hoping and praying.
Maybe he can find some sort of pre-Pesach job. I know many boys around here wash and clean cars before Pesach.
I don’t see why this post should be closed as it is offering support and advice to someone in a difficult situation. I think it’s beautiful. But I do agree that it would be helpful for WOW to speak to a therapist if that is a possibility.
“When I was a child, the yeshivos accepted any Jewish kid who wanted to learn, and never looked at the parents or siblings or even their ability to pay tuition. A child wanted to learn Torah-no questions asked!”
Once I came to the conclusion that yeshivos nowadays are run like a business, it made things much simpler and less hurtful.
Yes. End it so one of my girls can have him. Just kidding! 🙂
Great post CRGO. You have an understanding of the situation and are offering good advice. Hang in there, Write or Wrong.
10 ounces of chick peas
2 Tablespoons toasted sesame seeds
3 Tablespoons of plain yogurt or toffuti
2 Tablespoons of water
2 Tablespoons of lemon juice
2 Tablespoons of olive oil
1 Tablespoon of soy sauce
1/4 teaspoon of salt
1/4 teaspoon of cumin
1 scallion, sliced
1 minced garlic clove
Process beans and sesame seeds, then add rest of ingredients and blend till smooth.
The same thing happens in America too, unfortunately. Write or Wrong, I hope you have found some support for yourself like a frum therapist or a rebbitzen type to talk to. You have gone through this for many months, make sure you get some support for yourself so you can take care of your family.
Try not to spend too much time being upset with others that wronged your son. I know it is hard but it is a TOTAL WASTE of time. Focus on your family. Put that emotional energy in them. And of course continue to daven and do mitzvos in that zechus.
Aries, I don’t know if Write or Wrong should follow with your advice. I think the Rov will just say that their son was not accepted for other reasons and it had nothing to do with their older son. Perhaps this is all for the best, there are other schools that he can go to where they will be glad to take him and no comparisons made to the older brother.
Dear Write or Wrong,
I am sorry to hear that your friends and neighbors are giving you looks and are making insensitive comments. I hope you have one or two close friends that are supportive to you, not just the coffee room.
As far as your second son applying to yeshiva, perhaps it would be best for him to go to a yeshiva that your older son was NOT in, so he could make a fresh start without living in the shadow of his older brother.
Continue to search for ways to be mechazaik yourself through this difficult tekufah! Be good to yourself. It is normal to go through ups and downs in our spirituality especially during tough times.
I hope you will share good news with us soon. hang in there!
First time caller, thank you for sharing, may you see continued hatzlocha and brocha.
Make sure your other kids don’t have it and are reinfecting this child.