I can only try

The little I know–

+1

Very well put.

Sam2–

The last paragraph of an article (on a competing frum site) describing Rav Elyashiv’s statement states:

“When pressed for further explanation, Rav Elyashiv reportedly explained that the driver does not actually have a din of a rodef, but is very close to being a rodef.“

First the reply to the accusations:

I’m tired of hearing you ask me the same questions repeatedly with slightly changed wording and then when I respond to your repeated question to help you understand, you only shoot out that I changed what I am advising you. (I am not.)

Judge for yourselves if this is a change in what’s being claimed:

On to the next statement:

The point is dina dmalchusa is inapplicable regarding monetary issues between two non-governmental parties, per most poskim including Rav Eliashev.

Next accusation…

And you’ve not only mischaracterized what I am relating, but you’ve done so as well regarding what Rav Moshe and what Rav Shapiro said.

There is enough information for anyone to look up Rav Moshe’s opinion and (lbclc) Rav Schapiro’s.

I absolutely deny misrepresenting anything; please check for yourselves.

Onward…

Rav Belsky shlita takes a more chumradik position on this than most poskim, but he is not the posek hador like Rav Moshe was.

Next accusation, this one implicit…

(And do you use a Shabbos-clock on an AC, against Rav Moshe’s ruling? Do you drink unfiltered NYC tap water, per Rav Belsky’s ruling, which is permissive despite most poskim being non-permissive?)

Yes, I use Shabbos clocks on Shabbos and Yom Tov. This is a famous issue in which the oilam doesn’t follow Rav Moshe’s psak. I don’t know why not, nor do I know if his talmidim follow this psak.

If Rav Belsky is my posek, then yes, I’d follow his kulos and his chumros. If Rav Heinemann is my posek, I’d do likewise and use the Shabbos oven on Yom Tov. If I use unfiltered water (per Rav Belsky), use Shabbos ovens on Yom Tov (per Rav Heinemann), and wear a hat-cover on Shabbos (per the Klausenberger), I’m cherry-picking.

Onward…

And Rav Eliashev did NOT give a “haskama” that printing such a tnai makes it prohibited to copy.

A half truth. Rav Schapiro’s interprets the haskoma that Rav Elyashiv gives on the tnai as not actually prohibiting copying in narrow circumstances.

The bottom line is that most poskim allow copying in a case where the producer takes no loss. None of the poskim mentioned so far, with the notable exception of Rav Belsky, bring a teshuva being non-permissive in a case where no loss is sustained.

Next…

Yes, I agree with all Rav Shapiro’s chumras, but they are not all what you presented them to be. The only essential difference, which you characterize as a “chumra”, is determining whether the person really wouldn’t have purchased the product if he couldn’t copy it.

Once again, what’s misrepresented?

Please read what he wrote, what I quoted, and try to find where there is a misrepresentation or mischaracterization.

I absolutely stand by my understanding of Rav Schapiro’s psak, which is makil where someone wouldn’t buy an intial copy, and machmir where he would buy a second copy.

He certainly sounds like someone worthy of respect. (Just in case anyone thinks I’m being sarcastic, I assure you, I’m not.)

All things considered, we are going in circles. So I will now honor your request to no longer currently discuss this in public here If you wish to have the last word (or two – or even three postings), the floor is all yours. I rest my case.

A cowardly way out.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = =

And now, the promised Igros Moshe (cut and pasted, I didn’t type it myself):

??”? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ? ???? ?

:?”? ?? ????? ???? ??”? ????? ???????

???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ??”? ???? ???? ??? ????, ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ?????, ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??????, ?????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ?????, ?? ?? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ??”? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ???????? ??????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??”? ????? ????? ???? ???????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????

.???? ??? ????

??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???”? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???????? ???’ ????, ??????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?? ?????, ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??”? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???????, ?? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ???????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?”? ?????? ????? ???????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ?????, ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???, ??? ??”? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????, ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???

fini

vochindik-

Rav Eliashev holds dina dmalchusa does not apply to Choshen Mishpat issues. Rav Belsky apparently disagrees, and that is his right.

Second of all, software piracy is a criminal act, punishable by a fine, jail, or both. It isn’t simply monetary.

Yes, I’ve asked my rov, and he holds there is no issue of gezeila. And hasagas gvul is conditional, as previously explained. There is absolutely no cherry picking. And the rov asked is a close colleague of Rav Feivel, and of the same great stature. Google Contact Bais Medrash of Bayswater to reach Rav Yaakov.

Now, let’s tie it all in a bow: Did your rov say it’s no problem of gezaila AND it’s not a problem of hasogas gvul AND it’s not a problem of dina d’malchusa AND it’s not a problem for any other reason AND you may therefore copy software, music, books or any other intellectual property for yourself without being oiver any isur?

You haven’t answered my question(s) re: Rav Yaakov Shapiro

1) Is there a source where I can look up his heter?

2) Did you hear him give it yourself? See it in a sefer of his? Hear it in his name?

Rav Moshe writes in the Igros Moshe that it is midas sdom for the producer to be makpid on copying if it causes him no loss.

Where? I’d like to see it in context.

Btw, looking at Rav Belsky’s position in greater depth indicates Rav Belsky holds the issue is hasagas gvul and not halachic gezeila.

Where do you see that?

It’s certainly possible he holds it’s asur for both reasons.

And I disagree with Menachem’s reasoning to not discuss this. You could use that reasoning to discontinue all halachic discussions here. And we are discussing the permissiveness on this issue exclusively limited to where the producer does not lose any sale. All other circumstances we all agree it is prohibited to copy.

“You could use that reasoning to discontinue all halachic discussions here.“

Not really. This one has chilul H-shem potential that discussions of eruv, zmanim, cholov stam and the like don’t have.

REALIST–

Thank you for the kind words – flattery gets you everywhere.

I am perfectly fine with a moderator emailing you (and “yekke2” and “vochindik”) my rejected post. I stand by everything I said in it; I just don’t think it should be posted in a public forum for the reasons given.

vochindik–

1) Incorrect. The overwhelming majority of poskim who discuss intellectual property do NOT make a blanket prohibition against copying. And as I indicated above, nor is their a blanket heter to copy either.

That’s not what I said. Nobody said anything about a “blanket prohibition”. Rav Belsky explicitly allows copies to be made by the purchaser, both for backup purposes and for using on another device.

2) Correct. On an individual basis, with the rabbonim specifying when it expires. And this was based on hasagas gvul. Not geneiva (otherwise it would have been permanent, non-expiring.) And it didn’t apply to all works, unless the rabbonim gave the sefer a specific cherem. Furthermore, it applied a temporary prohibition only to *commercial* copying-to-sell, where obviously you are taking away business from the producer who would have otherwise sold it to the customers the copyer sold it to. Hasagas gvul. It did not apply to personal copying. (Obviously there was no personal single-copying feasible in those days.)

a) It was done on “an individual basis” whenever it was requested. A cherem (excommunication) is pretty serious – it shows how reprehensible rabonim thought copying someone else’s work was, regardless of what halachos it was or wasn’t based on.

b) “ And this was based on hasagas gvul. Not geneiva (otherwise it would have been permanent, non-expiring.)“

I’d like to hear this explained – I sure don’t get your logic.

c) “Furthermore, it applied a temporary prohibition only to *commercial* copying-to-sell, where obviously you are taking away business from the producer who would have otherwise sold it to the customers the copyer sold it to. Hasagas gvul. It did not apply to personal copying. (Obviously there was no personal single-copying feasible in those days.)“

This makes as much sense as saying “This temporary prohibition didn’t apply to photocopying”. Of course it didn’t apply to technology that didn’t exist in those days.

3. No it is not “genevia”. And very few of the poskim consider it halachic geneiva. They consider hasagas gvul.

If you look up the many frum sites that post this discussion, you’ll find genaiva and hasogas gvul the predominant issues.

Rav Moshe said it’s genaiva. Rav Belsky says it’s genaiva.

“vochindik” says “No, it’s not ‘genaiva'”. Period.

4. I explained above why dina dmalchusa is not relevant. So that only leaves hasagas gvul. And hasagas gvul ONLY is relevant if you caused a lost sale. If there was no intention of purchasing it (i.e. a $5,000 photo/video editing software), there is no hasagas gvul.

a) “I explained above why dina dmalchusa is not relevant.“

Rav Belsky told me that dina d’malchusa applies for laws that allow society to function and are for the benefit of society. Intellectual rights (patents, copyrights, trademarks) clearly fall with that realm. I have heard this explanation from others who know halacha as well, but they’re not rabonim. There are several explanations of dm”d that can be read online (with the authors noted), and they usually follow this explanation.

There may be those who disagree with this viewpoint – one of the write-ups I saw mentions a tosfos that says is much more limiting – but to simply blow it off is wrong.

“And if you want to “see it inside” from a halacha sefer, see Pischei Choshen, Geneivah, page 284.“

In the following page, poster “hello99”, who is much more knowledgeable on this issue, says that while the mekor you post does seem to show he is matir copying, a couple of pages earlier he quotes the Bais Yitzchok as saying it’s an issur gezel.

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/heteirim-for-copying-and-giving-out-music/page/3

I don’t know who Rav Yaakov Shapiro is.

A couple of questions:

1) Is there a source where I can look up his heter?

2) Is he your posek?

3) Have you actually asked your rov questions about this? IIRC, Rav Feivel Cohen is someone you hold of – any idea as to his opinions on this?

My observations on this are:

1) You’re cherry-picking specific opinions to find hetairim;

2) I really wish you’d respected my request not to drag me into a public discussion on this halocha.

3) I also wish, if you insist on debating this on a public forum, that “hello99” would jump in here, since he clearly knows a bit about this issue and which poskim said what. For whatever reason, you’re completely ignoring all the points, mareh mekomos, and rabonim/poskim he brings down on that thread.

Moderator/Editor-

Please reject my as-of-yet-unapproved “megilla” post from last night.

I now believe that the approach I took in that post was not the correct one.

Thank you, again.

yekke2–

a) If I buy a program, I have now the rights to do what i like with it – think of a guy who buys a light for the top of his candle, and the seller doesn’t let him light any other candles. He smiles and lights twenty five candles. No problem in halacha. Once i have bought something, it become mine.

In Jewish, we call it a ????.

And if one uses something he purchased in a way that isn’t halachicly allowed, in Jewish we call it a ??

And there is definitely no ????? for me to go to somebody with a candle and ask him to light it for me – no matter where he got it from.

So there is clearly no issur to copy a sefer, book, CD, program or anything else that someone else has purchased. There is also no issur to make multiple copies and sell them for your own profit. Patents can likewise be ignored, and the patented item copied and sold with halachic impunity.

b) Even if the Jewish music manufacturers have started using ????? and not-whats, the Adobe Corporation haven’t. And as far as i know, clicking ‘Terms and conditions apply’ is not halachically binding. And even if it is, i don’t think this will affect anything.

c) It isn’t ????? or ????? to copy, because there is nothing. Like there is no problem of ????? of the ?? ???? – or … if we are digital – because it is a ??? ???? ?? ???, so to there is nothing to steal. I clicked a button; that is not a ???? ?????.

One isn’t yotzeh a brocha over the phone. Does this mean that loshon hora over the phone isn’t a problem?

d) After ????, let’s take on that the ???? is halachically binding [even though it is not – not for now – that will be for whoever bought the program and uploaded it online. I don’t need to keep to YOUR ?????.

What a great piece of logic! From now on, I’ll buy anything I want and then let a family member violate all purchase conditions. Conversely, I’ll have my wife buy Artscroll’s latest sefer and start running off copies myself!

I’ll sell the list of customers the bank I work at maintains to competitors (indirectly, of course, so I don’t violate any job-related tenaim).

I’ll sell the latest nuclear technology my firm has developed to North Korea!

It falls far short of that, however. It is merely an endorsement of genaiva, sheker, chilul H-shem and who knows what else.

Is there even one posek who accepts the claims and hetairim you made above?

I find your post disgusting, and to me personally it is a chilul H-shem that a frum person could not only think that way but actually try to get others to act shelo ka’halacha.

vochindik–

yekke2’s comments are halachicly correct and sound.

What’s your basis for saying this?

May I have your social security number? and your bank account number? If not, is there a halachik problem if I get them myself?

Folks,

Just a suggestion-

Take a step back and depersonalize your disagreements.

Whether or not you end up agreeing with each other, it will allow this to be discussed more civilly, and is probably a good idea in mid-Elul, too.

</lecture>

My prior post on this thread was not approved.

Chaval that a frum site like this one should have posts advocating software piracy.

(please Google the above, with quotes, to see the full thread and its context.)

Dash,

You’re right that the screen size is important – I recommend that anyone using the “wmic” method of determining their model also measures their screen size diagonally, e.g. from the lower left corner to the upper right corner.

As far as resolution/aspect (is there any difference?) and screen technology, I’d be surprised if a particular model came with different default resolutions and screen technologies for the same screen size. Reseller sites seem comfortable suggesting a replacement screen based on the model and screen size.

As far as you know, are there manufacturers that sell the same model / screen size with different screen technologies?

Finding your PC’s model number:

1) Click the Windows “start” icon on the bottom left of your screen

2) Type “cmd” (no quotes) in the Search programs and files box.

3) Hit enter

4) Type “wmic csproduct get name” (no quotes) in the window that appears

5) Hit enter

6) Your PC’s manufacturer and model should appear. Close the window once you have written down the info.

(the above info was found via Google)

I don’t know Lakewood, so I can’t offer recommendations.

Perhaps someone else can?

Would it be possible to not approve posts that were written on Shabbos?

I realize that there are posters from Eretz Yisroel, Europe, Australia, the U.S. West Coast, etc. (posts from those areas may have been written when it’s Shabbos in NYC but not where they live), but perhaps those could be approved or disallowed based on the IP they are sent from.

It would be too bad if anyone was mechalel Shabbos (accidentally or otherwise) by posting on this site.

cshapiro-

I assume the “rossmannsupply” screen name is legit, but nonetheless it would probably be quicker and more efficient to just Google the company for their phone#, call them, and get your questions answered.

Don’t worry about sounding non-PC-literate – I’m sure not all their customers are super-techies.

I will caution you that if you have no one who is reasonably proficient with simple assembly and disassembly, your best bet may be to just bring it to a service place.

Curiosity-

Thank you.

I already knew the “real” answer, but didn’t want to steal it from someone else who could solve it.

There are two possibilities. Let’s name the two people “X” and “Y” (such imaginative names, I know):

1) Ask X “which door would Y tell me is safe?”, then use the other door. If X is the honest one, he will point to the door that Y (the liar) would have indicated, while if X is the liar, he would dishonestly point to the door Y would not indicate.

2) Ask X “Hypothetically, if I asked you which door was safe, which door would you point to?”, then use the indicated door. If X was the truth-teller, he’d honestly point to the safe door that he’d point to if asked. If X is the liar, he’d dishonestly point to the safe door that he wouldn’t have pointed to if he’d actually (not hypothetically) been asked.

Rossmann Supply Group is where I bought a replacement LCD.

Their prices were the best, and they shipped it quickly, wrapped in several layers of bubble wrap.

They help you determine exactly which LCD is needed for your particular PC. You can also call them to speak to a real (and helpful!) person.

I can’t post the link here, so please Google “Rossmann Supply Group” for their contact and ordering info.

90-94 inclusive.

Refua shelaima.

Parshaman-

If your only requirement is “something small” to take notes on, the cheapest computer sold should meet your needs.

Even a netbook may be good enough for your intended usage, and I just saw a new one on sale at Best Buy for $200.

As far as a program to use for taking notes, the “Open Office” suite is free and it includes a full word processor.

557-

A Google search for your puzzle shows that the question was first posed by Richard Rado, and the solution you described was given by Abram Besicovitch.

Google Books allowed me to see a sketch of the solution in action, so you can disregard my request for clarification.

I did notice that the solution has X getting closer to Y as well as Y getting closer to the circle’s edge with every move, so in the “real world”, even if X and Y were microscopic, X’s edge would eventually touch Y’s – it’s just that their exact centers wouldn’t ever be in exact alignment.

I’d still appreciate an answer to my “semicircle” and “diameter” questions.

Also, since maintaining distance isn’t what’s important, but rather just preventing X and Y from occupying the same spot, couldn’t Y use a similar or identical plan to evade X inside a square?

Just for your amusement, here are terms I don’t remember hearing:

radius vector

{t_1, t_2, t_3, …}

ith

half-plane

Furthermore, your application of the Pythagorean theorem and R_i’s being bounded was way over my head – oh, well.

1) Future First Lady Martha Dandridge married this man on May 15, 1750.

2) If someone awoke in Brooklyn, NY at 7:00 AM on September 14, 1752 after a ten-hour nap, when did they fall sleep?

Obvious (and incorrect) answer: September 13, 1752 at 9:00 PM. Correct answer: September 2, 1752 at 9:00 PM. Sept. 3, 1752 thru Sept. 13, 1752 were skipped in British territory. [credit: shmoel]

3) What is the reason the Staten Island bridge that is outermost from the other four boros of New York City got its name?

[credit: shmoel]

4) These two brothers achieved the first manned flight.

5) What is the predominant metal in a U.S. nickel?

Obvious (and incorrect) answer: Nickel. Correct answer: Copper. The nickel is about 75% copper, 25% nickel.

6) Current U.S. coinage includes the penny (one cent), nickel (five cents), dime (ten cents), quarter (twenty-five-cents) half-dollar (fifty cents) and dollar. Has there ever been a three cent piece? If so, when was the last U.S. coin with a three on it minted?

7) Where did French’s mustard originate?

Obvious (and incorrect) answer: France. Correct answer: In the U.S. It was created by Robert Timothy French.

8) What is the U.S. capital?

[credit: shmoel]

9) Which one-word salutation did Alexander Graham Bell reccomend for use when answering a phone?

Obvious (and incorrect) answer: Hello. Correct answer: Ahoy! (really!)

10) Information gathered from all points of the compass is called “News” because it has this characteristic.

Obvious (and incorrect) answer: Because it comes from all directions – North, East, West and South. Correct answer: Because the info it contains is new.

11) The two things that stick out of the sides of your head are known as this (your glasses hook over them).

[partial credit: shmoel]

12) Scotch Tape’s country of origin.

13) Who is in the first photo of a human being on the moon?

557–

Unless Y can move away from X in a straight line, X can either cut the corner or turn inside the radius of the path Y is taking, thereby closing the gap and eventually catching Y.

Even if X and Y are both on the outer edge of the circle, X can still turn inside a smaller radius.

If there was an obstacle (such as an inner circle) within the circle or square, then Y could dodge X forever, since they would both circle that obstacle at the same speed.

Rough Rider–

Slice.

Shopping613–

It depends if the roach is the thing you went to get.

7 letters are in my name

If you subtract one 12 remains

What am I?

Twelves (or drytzen).

Syag Lchochma-

ZeesKite-

The only folks who I avoid

Your efforts have all been umzist

Saying “carpool” to the toll collector when one isn’t truly eligible for it seems to be a problem for the following reasons:

1) Sheker

2) Genaiva

3) Chilul H-shem (if caught)

If my concerns aren’t valid, I’d appreciate it if someone could point out why.

I don’t want to embarass the poster who suggested this – if I’m correct and this is a problem, perhaps that post can be removed.

Luna Lovegood–

Thank you.

I enjoyed yours about an event that gave chizuk to hundreds of thousands of people, whether they personally attended or not.

Syag Lchochma-

SaysMe-

MiddlePath-

blabla-

kapusta-

Too Cool-

Think first-

Song of Blessing-

bygirl93-

No One Mourns The Wicked-

Howdy!