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The original story, with several of the details different from what was written above, can be seen here: http://bp0.blogger.com/_prBfNuonF7U/R6IDLlyuh5I/AAAAAAAABaM/dBCyLfOPDUY/s1600-h/56449427.jpg
Y.W. Editor –
Joseph raises a valid point. Since comments are being allowed, please be extra-careful as to which comments are allowed to post.
jphone –
Amen, agreed.
B”N 90-99.
Thank you.
Feif Un –
“The MB says if the custom is to daven with a hat, you should. In many communities, the derech is not to wear a hat. So according to the MB, in those places, it’s fine not to, right?”
Actually, I think he says it’s because that is the way one would present oneself before respected people.
source: http://www.dailyhalacha.com/MBerura/Images/383.jpg
If you are not sure (which I am inferring from “right?”) you should ask your Rov/Rabbi.
Joseph –
I will B”N do so.
If the rav I ask gives his OK, I will also mention his name.
I am a terrible procrastinator, so it may not be that quick, but since at least one person is now waiting on this the incentive to get up and ask exists.
The reason I will ask the rav for his permission to quote something in his name is that in the past I asked Rav Belsky shlita for a psak and then asked if he could be quoted to others he gave the OK, but when I asked a Rosh Yeshiva about kashering a microwave for Pesach, he said technically it was OK, but it shouldn’t be done, and when I was leaving yeshiva to enter the business world I asked my Rosh Yeshiva about shaking hands with women and he said “it is muttar, but you shouldn’t” – I took the last two statements as applying for me personally, and not for public attribution.
One note about dina dimalchusa – I was told that it may apply even where it contradicts halacha, such as capital punishment in the USA, since it has a malchus shel chessed and the punishment is applied fairly to all people. This is NOT a psak I was given but it was mentioned during learning by someone whose learning I respect.
Correction: sk 4, mb 12
Feif Un –
“Instead of just saying ‘Yes, it’s in the Mishna Berurah’, can you please show me where exactly?”
Hilchos Tefiloh, siman 91, sk 12(megulah)
Rav Belsky shlita addresses this exact issue as follows:
DOWNLOADING AND COPYING MUSIC
QUESTION 76: DOWNLOADING AND COPYING MUSIC
I argue with people about the ethics of downloaded music files from the Internet. I say that downloading songs or copying your own songs to give to someone else, without a copyright owner’s permission, or not compensating the owner, is stealing. What do you say about this?
RABBI BELSKY
Rabbi Moshe Feinstein ztl said that it’s not permitted to copy any item that is being sold by the creator of that item. Every time you copy it, you’re taking away sales from him. Anybody who downloads it, copies it, or does something else is really just turning someone else’s money into ashes. And that’s really the bottom line. It’s taking something from someone else.
This is one of the areas where people say, “Everyone does it, and it really should be mutar (permitted)”. People copy tapes and download from the Internet. Everything becomes “public domain”. There’s nothing private. People just download it and copy it and they’ll wipe the owner out.
But even if everyone does it, it’s wrong. You’re taking away something from someone and you’re harming him.
Sometimes people object to this argument and say, “Well, in that case, I’m probably not even allowed to copy down a shtikel (piece of) Torah that I heard.” But that’s not true – the Shach says “Ein gezel b’divrei Torah (there’s no stealing when it comes to Torah)”, that is, if you copy it down for yourself.
The guideline here involves whether or not what you’re doing is taking away a sale from the owner. One might say, if asked this question, “Oh, I would never have bought that anyway.” But in fact you shouldn’t say that. You do like it … and you would have bought it.
However, if you buy one and make a copy for yourself so that you can have, say, one in the car and one at home – that kind of copying is permitted. No one buys two of something for such a purpose, so copying the merchandise in this case doesn’t take the place of a sale. If you told a person who wanted one copy for the house and one for the car that he had to buy two, then he wouldn’t buy two. He would figure a way to carry it back and forth each time.
Since buying two copies for such a purpose is never done, then making a copy for yourself for two locations is not taking away a sale.
QUESTIONER
Is copying music a different type of stealing than any other type of stealing? Or is it just like any kind of stealing? Is there a principal that stealing is stealing and there are no distinctions? Is it just like walking over to someone with a gun? In this case we’re talking about intellectual property. So is that a lesser degree of stealing?
RABBI BELSKY
The concept of ‘stealing’ intellectual property has limitations because in certain cases it is permitted to copy an idea. For example, if someone comes up with some idea about how to sell something, that idea is probably not subject to being copyrighted or patented. But a song is copyrighted, and people do business by selling records or tapes with songs. This is an item that brings a livelihood to people. Therefore, if you’re taking it, you’re taking away the livelihood of a person.
That’s very important to remember. Someone sweated nights and invested money and time in order to create a certain item that the public is interested in, and then he’s ready to sell it. And then it turns out that some Napster type of enterprise gets its hands on it, and people end up paying zero for it.
>> couldn’t resist <<
Gut Shabbos to all.
Your car accident story reminds me of a couple of incidents that we had.
The first occurred several years ago in Kensington when we sideswiped a double-parked car. We left a note for the owner. When he called back we ended up arranging for him to have it repaired at a nearby collision shop (Speedy Rental / Dahill auto repair, run by two Chasidishe brothers [Abe and Yanky], very erlich, nice and reasonably priced). The owner of the damaged vehicle turned out not to be Jewish, so it is nice to hear that this type of thing makes a good roishum. There is a yetzer hora to run away, but bottom line is that we were supposed to lose a few hundred dollars, and we certainly would have lost it another way (aside from the genaiva).
The second incident comes with a shailo.
Somebody parked one night edged into our driveway about a foot-and-a-half. When we pulled into our driveway we damaged part of his car that was edged in. We left a note, and in this case it turned out the person was a young frum guy, who had only edged into our driveway to make room for the person behind him. Legally we were obligated for the damage, so we paid most of it (he was mochel about fifty dollars).
My question is:
Although we paid since legally we were liable and dina dimalchusa dina, if dina dimalchusa did not apply here would we still be responsible here? Would he be responsible for our damages? This is not nogeah limaseh, but I am curious as to the halacha.
Opinions are welcome, but if someone (who knows hilchos mamanos and nizikin better than I do) can point out a basis for what they believe the halocha should be I would appreciate it.
Thank you.
jent1150-
As my screenname says, I can only try.
Gut Shabbos to all.
jent1150-
After rereading my previous post I must apologize.
qwerty-
You raise valid points.
jent1150-
I did not do extensive research on your past remarks, because my intent is not to win an argument. The remarks I quoted above were the result of Googling your screen name, and looking at the first few hits.
I appreciate your responding to my request for correction of my (incorrect) assumptions.
Please respond to that, as well.
[bodek or not]
jent1150 –
I am going to make a few assumptions, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
You are young, 20 or less.
You live in Eretz Yisroel.
You are a bochur.
You have limited or no contact with the non-yeshivish oilam.
You did not consult with your Rav/Rebbe before posting your remarks.
Yes, you hit a nerve with your strongly-worded condemnations of other frum people. Is that what you wanted to do? If so, why?
Respectfully yours.
illini07-
You made your point well.
An informative, respectful discussion of halachos and minhagim would probably be something appropriate for a seuda.
There are more than enough kulos, chumros and differences in opinion to fill many volumes. Even those who are most machmir on some things are makil on others and vice-versa.
Among the many:
The boro park eiruv
The time between fleishig and milchig
The zman Shabbos ends
Kitnayos on Pesach
Hat covers on Shabbos
illini07 –
ALthough we are probably on somewhat different sides re: many hashkofo opinions, I never would dream of calling your hashkofos “pro-freikeit”.
I believe you and (almost) all other posters on this site are shomer-Shabbos bnei Yisroel who I would be happy to have at my Shabbos table and whose kashrus I would trust (meaning I would trust them about which hashgochos they used, not necessarily use those hashgochos myself).
I would ammend your closing comment thusly: All of you stop acting like you know the first thing about ANYONE that comments here, unless you know them in person. Your ugly personal attacks belie your true middot.
The lack of respect shown by some posters is appalling, as is this topic, and the calling out by (screen) name of individuals.
To the credit of the poster, he did back off slightly.
Please, when you disagree, do so respectfully.
