HonestOpinion613

ubiquitin

Are you just trying to throw arguments about the RCT and confuse people or you really thought that an RCT has been done in Finland.

the finland study was a 3 week study (for the first 3 weeks the first of the twin got a vaccine and hte other a placebo (don’t know yet, what the placebo was) and by 3 weeks they changed it . that the one that got th eplacebo got now the vaccine and the one that got the vaccine now got the placebo.

this is what you call a long term RCT ?

can you explain to me why you feel that vaccines should be different than medicines? why for medicines everyone understand that you need long-term placebo study to know the risk while vaccines you can have studies that last only a few days or weeks?

let me rephrase what i have written before.

in order for 2 people that disagree to come to an agreement . we need to know

1) what we both agree on
2) what we disagree

this way we can explain to each other the points on what we disagree.

my opinon is that any medicine AND VACCINES that we know CAN cause side affects. the only way to determine the risks of the vaccine is by haveing a real Long-TERM RCT study of a REAL placebo.

This is what is required for medicine and there is no reason why vaccines should be differtent . they both can help people and save people lives and they both have side affect . And we NEED TO KNOW THE BENEFITS VS. RISKS with ABSOLUTE numbers . not wild guessing games.

Do you agree with the above statement?

if yes, where is a LONG _TERM RCT “SAFETY” study? (not 3 weeks )

please respond with real study and not throw me just studies that are not long-term or using a fake placebo…

interjection “Here’s my own retroactive study. The first routinely recommended vaccine was in 1917. The average life expectancy then was 48.4 years. The vaccine schedule hasn’t changed much since the 1970s until today. Life expectancy in 1970 was 67. Now that we’ve had a few decades of relatively the same vaccine schedule, life expectancy is up to 79 years.
I fear you will argue that it has nothing to do with vaccines because the only reason we are healthier is because of hygiene. Proper hygiene definitely plays a part but if vaccines were dangerous, considering that at least 90% of people follow the recommended schedule and the average life expectancy is increasing, it seems that vaccines are not a huge killer. ”

Seriously???

So let me rephrase it.

You agree to me that a placebo study is needed in order to determine risk.
BUT based on this whole calculation you say that since life expectency went up (based on average life ) then vaccines can’t be too bad . because even if hygenie helped (+ all medication for heart attack and cancer and phenomena,etc. ) the life expectency still went up … and you feel that its right to FORCE me as a parent to take this risk based on this calculation ????

are you really saying this???

can we please keep to logic and not just arguments for the sake of arguments.

I think that driving at 85 mph can’t be too bad , because life expectency went up . so it can’t be too dangerous. so now you can force me to drive at 85 mph or ..

ubiquitin

when i said that i dind’t bother to read it , becuase ususlly its just comments flying back and forth withotu addressing the actual quesitons and its non-sense.
But of course I did research both parts of the story. I have read many pro-vaccines websites and experts. My mind is made up? not true. I am still debating what to do with my children for the new school year. My wife doesn’t want to send to the new homeschooling …

But i haven’t found a normal response on all of these website about the RCT.

You can’t deny the fact that there are thousands of children that right after they get vaccines something happens to them. (seisures, autisim, SIDS.. ) So how can you say that its safe without real placebo RCT (If not RCT at least vaxxed vs unvaxxed retroactively ) .

All you are saying that because the government says BELIEVE me that its safe without any studies to back it, i have to belive it ..

this is a ridicules argument that is never used for any medicine .

if you are saving 500 death (out of at LEAST 5 MILLION measels cases 60 years ago when medicine wasn’t so advanced), you need to know how many death , and other illenses you are causing against it.

Just becuase it Helps (efficacy) doesn’t mean that the benefits outway the risks. Just like you don’t give any other medicine witoout a long term safety study even when you know that it helps.

2scents

“What is the definition of safe, is driving a car safe, is going to sleep considered safe?
Is drinking water safe?
Nothing is without risk, yet there is a certain level of risk that is considered to be totally safe ”

I agree that nothing is without risk, but its a risk that you know EXACTLY what the risk is and you can say confidently . This low risk is considered safe.

You know that water & sleeping is safe entirely , its nature …

you know that driving a car at speed limit , the risk is this much (PERCENT)… vs. if you speed on 85 then your risks are extremely higher.. and that might not be considerd safe

the point that all the pro-safety people are saying , that any medication that has side affect . the only way to know what the risk really is so that we can decide if this is considered safe. is by having a real long-term study that is vax vs unvaxed so that we can know the risk percentage.

however the problem with vaccines is that such safety studies were never made. Some vaccines monitored just for a few days.. no vaccine ever had a real placebo

so how do we know the risks? what made the governemnt decide that this risk is considered safe when they never made a way to measure the risks.

” why would you think that the inserts would contain potential side effects that are not associated with the vaccine at hand?”

because when someone says that its SAFE .. and you ask him about the side affects on the inserts… then it goes like .. yeh , its just the company trying to protec themselves against anything.. (i.e. choking hazard and don’t eat paint , etc. )

But this is not the case here. If the vaccine manufacture wouldn’t have known that vaccine can CAUSE this disease then they wouldn’t be allowed to put it there. so its not just to “protect” the company. This diseasse can be CAUSED by the vaccine . and back to my precous point “if you have no way of knowing the risk percentage – how can you say confidently that this is considered safe??? at most this is a wild guess . nothing substantial to it.( as its IMPOSSIBLE to know long-term affect of a medicine without testing)

ubiquitin

“Wrong! Anti-Vaxxers have asked CDC for 100% Vaxxed vs 100% Unvaxxed. CDC refuses. Why?

This question has been answered over and over and over. ”

yeh, can you give me an answer that makes sense to a normal human being???
(besides the stupid ethical answer which totally doesn’t make sense. because when someone is sick then everyone agrees that its NOT ethical to give the sick guy medicine that has NOT YET been proven to be safe . (remeber the 2 million dollar campaign a week ago for saving a a child life because the FDA didn’t approve the medicine over 2 ) But when someone is HEALTHY then its NOT ETHICAL to deny him medication that <i> might < /> prevent him from becoming sick. DOES THIS MAKES SENSE TO YOU????? not to me )

Neville ChaimBerlin

really you compare alumunim foil to vaccines????

if there would be thousands of children that right after they started eating from aluminim foil they had seizures or became autisitc , etc. then Yes I would have stoped using alumunim foil until i know that proper studies are done to insure that its safe. even if corolation doesn’t EQUAL causation …

and i think YOU TOO WOULD.

Neville Chaim Berlin

If you did research and then claim that we are retarded then maybe you have an opinion.

But to say that people who say that when there is a רעותא in the safety, you need to study the safety before putting yourself at risk. (even when we might be saving someone else .חייך קודמים)

(there are thousand of people that got injured right after vaccine which surely makes a big רעותא in the חזקת ברוא so we are obligated to guard our health and not put outself in danger)

so to use a Mashal imagine when there is a Johny that several times he entered a house and they later found someone dead in that house . It doesn’t mean that Johnny killed him . Corolation doesn’t EQUAL causation .

but would you ever let your son go together with this Johny to a house before knowing 1000% for sure that Johny didn’t kill all these people?

so who is mental retarded?

the person that wants safety studies or the person that says Corolation doesn’t EQUAL causation. we don’t know if johny killed them so he lets his children alone with johnny?

and the government doesn’t want to study the safety because they will be liable in trillions of dollars and give an excuse that its not ETHICAL … .

so if you can answer the question that are ICAN sent to the HHS secretay (Dec 2018) in a response to the answer that HHS sent them or explain to me why anything is not a valid question then , ok I hear you.

but being ignorant and anyone that studies it or wants answers you just say that they are mental retarded…

The Little I know –

you have conducted research?

so maybe you can answer me why the governemnt is saying that alumunim is safe becuase its in mother milk when its 2 DIFFERENT Types of aluminum.

Show me any proof that what I am saying is not correct.

The CDC themesleves used to point out to the study that the alumunim in the blood level doesn’t increase after Vaccines (which doesn’t happen with water-soluable aluminum Aka “Natural ALuminum)

then when they realized that they are only pointing to ammuniation against them , they took down this reason and just say that this LEVEL of alumunim is safe.. (also a thereo) because in mother milk…

so what exactly am i not understanding.

Doomsday – If you would do a little research and not believe everything that the government says without double checking the facts, you would see that there is a very big scientific possible cause that children get Autisim because of the aluminum in other vaccines that is triggered through the MMR (or any other inflamation) to enter the BRAIN. .

this aluminium stays at the place of the shot (doesn’t move in the blood) until there is inflammation in the body , and when there is inflammation it causes a specific type of white blood cells to move through the body. This white blodd cells (forgot the medical name) cannot distroy the alumunim and since they pass through the lymph system and not through the Blood, they are not blocked by the Brain barrier and they pass to the brain with all the alumunim from the shot that they absorved.

alumunim is a known toxin.

and the government wants to fool everyone that since alumunim is found in mother milk , then this small amount is not dangerous.

when in fact we are talking about two DIFFERENT TYPES OF ALUMUNIM .

the natural aluminium is water soluble and the little that gets absorved travels through the BLOOD and cannot pass the brain barrier . It then gets disposes by the kidney.

Vs the type of alumunim used in vaccines is NON-SOLUBILE. and it Does NOT travel through the blood .

so yes, you do need to have a Full vaccinated vs unvaccinted study to prove any safety,

and as long there is no such study , then vaccines have a big רעותא in their safety and thier is a torah obligation ונשמרתם מאוד לנפשותיכם.