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SR. You are confusing and generalizing. First of all police brutality against Haredim are far more rampant than against any other group. See also Chaim Mizrachi case for example.
Sam Klein. We should adhere Rabbi S Alter who said after LagBaOmer tragefy. Each and everyone has to do soul searching by himself, at himself. Individually. Please stop being MEKATREG on innocent Jewry.
Meantime, in neighboring Canada..
DailyStar:
“Bedridden 99-year-old taken to court for failing to show up for jury duty.”
Jan.23.23
Ujm, re your last tip, this in and of itself might be construed as intolerance, hence chilul hashem…
As far as entering a Consetvative-temple not during nor for davening: I never heard any issue. What if there is a certain event?
Conclusion:
* Jews under Islamism were oppressed and there were massacres every few decades. Yet, over all in Europe the suffering and bloodshed was incomparable (asides from Almohads – which we lavk more detailed info on number of victims). Under the Turks, probably the suffering was the least, in comparison.
* The “anti Zionism” among the Arabs, at its source stems from intolerance to the “other” at their midst. (Ethnic and religious racism /bigotry).
* Radical Arab-Islamists dominated the Arab street at least since 1913.
* Mufti and his gangs succeeded in subduing moderates. (His meeting with/ helping A.H. ym”s and his calls for the Arab world to kill any J… his plans to erect crematoria on Dotan Valley/ hus intervention against rescuing Jewish children into Mandatory Palestine -) revealed also his earlier motivations in their 1920-1921-1929 pogroms).
* But certain actions by radical Zionists on 1948 made it worse.* On top of that, the ’48/’67 victories humiliated the entire Arab world. Not that any Arab entity cares about the “Palestinian” Arabs (nor do extremist Ken Roth or bigoted Omar Shakir of HRW etc.), but the humiliation was collective.
This is how noted historian Wistrich wrote it:
Wistrich, Robert S., “A Lethal Obsession: Anti-Semitism from Antiquity to the Global Jihad,” (Random House Publishing Group, 2010), chapter 21 ‘The “Liberation” of Palestine:’
The Arab case against Zionism during the late Ottoman period was tainted by an anti-Jewishness that had become part of the “daily bread in Palestine,” to quote one prescient observer. In November 1913, a prominent leader of the Palestinian anti-Zionist campaign, Sheikh Sulayman al-Taji from Acre, published a poem entitled “The Zionist Danger” in Filastin. It related to Jews …References regarding the Islamist hateful incitement against Jews (masked as “anti zionist”) in 1913 in the [Falastin] Filastin paper and the banning by the Ottomans.
K.A. Sulaiman, “Palestine and Modern Arab Poetry,” Zed, 1984, p.11:
Shaykh Sulayman al-Taji, … in November he published a poem, entitled “the Zionist danger” in Filastin… In his poem, he combined Islamic motifs from the Qur’an and hadith to support his nationalist view, as well as tapping into classic European anti-Semitic tropes.Elie Kadouri, “Zionism and Arabism in Palestine and Israel”, Taylor & Francis, 2015, p.8:
Two other incidents in April added to Yishuv anxiety. In Jaffa, citrus-owner. Samuel Tolkowsky complained that Government permission for the reappearance of Falastin, which had been closed down by the Turks for incitement to race-hatred in April 1914, could only be a source of discouragement to ‘moderate’ Arabs and an official invitation to ‘extremists…‘Eisov Sone’ is not exclusive, it’s symbolic, since it was said on וישקהו..
In fact:
* דאמרי תרוייהו מאי הר סיני, הר שירדה שנאה לעכו”ם עליו… ומה שמו חורב שמו. (שבת סט א).
* שאין אומה בעולם שיהיו שונאים לישראל כבני ישמעאל (רבנו בחיי, בראשית כא יד).
__
Now, regarding blaming the “Zionists” …
Despite, me not being a “Zionist,” facts first:
* 1834 looting of Tzfat (Safed)… 33 days of horror! [סיון תקצ”ד]
* The Damascus Affair blood libel – and the massacres that followed in many cities was in 1840 and years that followed.
* The Balfour Declaration was in 1917.. but the anti-Jewish bigoted incitement was already, for example in Nov 1913 by an Islamist Sheikh who wrote vile anti Semitic poem in ‘Filastin’, which, among other material triggered the ottomans to ban the paper in 1914, for inciting race hatred.
The paper was reopened under the British in 1921, weeks before the Palestine’s Mufti incited for another pogrom…* So what if people want to establish a State there? How does that justify anything?
Zionists seriously armed themselves AFTER the 1929 Hebron massacre of Non-Zionist Haredi Jews… it’s suffice horrific to read how they butchered the baker…__
Another earlier “trivia”…
Some “40,000 Jews lived in (Eretz Israel innthe area of) Caesarea alone at the Arab conquest, after which all trace of them is lost.”Regarding the Churban, the Abarbenel’s opinion is that Bnei Yishmael were also helping the Romans…..
==
Maurice Roumani, The Case of the Jews from Arab Countries: A Neglected Issue, (Tel Aviv: World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries, 1977):
Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854-859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). .., Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).
__Patterson, D. (2010). A Genealogy of Evil: Anti-Semitism from Nazism to Islamic Jihad. United States: Cambridge University Press, p.55:
Then there is Ibn Tumart (c.1080–c.1130), who, according to the medieval sage Abraham ibn Daud, undertook a campaign of extermination against the Jews, when he “decreed apostasy on the Jews, saying, ‘Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.’ Thus he wiped out every last ‘name and remnant’ of them from all his empire, from the city of Silves at the end of the world until the city of al-Mahdiya.”
__
Lewis, B. (1984). The Jews of Islam . New Jersey: Princeton University Press, p. 168:
From the late eighteenth century through the nineteenth century, expulsion, outbreaks of mob violence, and even massacres became increasingly frequent. Between 1770 and 1786 Jews were expelled from Jedda, most of them fleeing to the Yemen.
In 1790 Jews were massacred in Tetuán, in Morocco;
in 1828, in Baghdad. In 1834 a cycle of violence and pillage began in Safed.
In 1839 a massacre of Jews took place in Meshed in Iran followed by the forced conversion of the survivors, and a massacre of Jews occurred in Barfurush in 1867.
In 1840 the Jews of Damascus were subject to the first of a long series of blood libels in many cities….
Still, as far as being compared, I tend to agree with ujm, asides from the Almohad genocidal drive of Jews throughout the entire area ( sefer ha-Qabalah כמובא בספר הקבלה לראב”ד הלוי) which we all lack info about the numbers.
THE FIRST RECORDED MASSACRE, PERSECUTION BY BNEI-YISHMAEL WAS IN GALUTH BAVEL [Babylonian captivity]:
For the Mal’achim were saying: “RibomoShelOlam , for one who is destined to kill Your children with thirst, You are bringing up a well?!” And He answered them, “What is he now, righteous or wicked?” They replied, “Righteous.” He said to them, “According to his present deeds I judge him” (Gen. Rabbah 53:14). And that is the meaning of “where he is.” Now where did he kill the Israelites with thirst? When Nebuchadnezzar exiled them, as it is stated (Isa. 21: 13f.): “The harsh prophecy concerning Arabia, etc. Toward the thirsty bring ye water, etc.” When they led them beside the Arabs, the Israelites said to their captors, “Please lead us beside the children of our cousins Ishmael, and they will have mercy on us,” as it is stated:“the caravans of the Dedanites.” Do not read דְדָנִים (Dedanites) but דְוֹדִים (uncles). And these [Ishmaelites] went forth toward them and brought them salted meat and fish and inflated skins. The Israelites thought that they were full of water, but when one would place it into one’s mouth and open it, the air would enter his body and he would die …
Dear @BaltimoreMaven, please do not compare that type of writing with today’s vocabulary. What Rab Ovadia meant to say is clear. That they are put down by the Muslim maters – in today’s language.
Correction: 1066 Granada Massacre : execution of Rab Shmuel haNagid’s son – Yosef.
Each and every time, some preacher invoked/invokes the Banu Qurayza, Khybar earlier massacre of Jews in Madina.
After making a “peace” agreement with the Jews, attacking them as they disarmed themselves.
A tribe of some 700 were decapited after given the choice if to convert which the holy Jews refused.(See also:
Chaim Schloss, “2000 Years of Jewish History: From the Destruction of the Second Bais Hamikdash Until the Twentieth Century,” Feldheim Publishers, 2002, chapter 6.)___
Here are some events prior to the excuse of “zionism.”
* 1066: execution of Rab Shmuel haNagid and ‘Garanda Massacre’ – 4-5,000 Jews died. The razing of the entire Jewish quarter in the Andalucian city of Granada.
* 1013: Under Umayyad rule,
The inhabitants of Cordoba including Jews were massacred and looted. It is said that 2000 of them were murdered.* 1033: Fez, Morocco, pogrom, Muslims massacres more than 6000 Jews and took away their women and robbed their belongings.
* 1172+: The Almohads, who had taken control of much of Islamic Iberia by 1172, were far more extremists than the Almoravides, and they treated the dhimmis harshly. Jews and chr. were expelled from Morocco and Islamic Spain.
* Maimonides (Epistle to the Yemenites), consoling the Jews of Yemen for the tortures they suffered and exhorting them to remain true to their faith , no matter what the cost. Despite the remoteness of their abode , the Yemenite Jews never lost contact with the spiritual movements in world Jewry. Their religious life was based entirely upon the Talmud.
* 1465: Fez, Morocco, Muslim subjects overthrew the last Marinid ruler who had appointed many Jews to high positions. Grudges leading to massacre the entire Jewish community of the city. The community was temporarily converted but soon reverted to Judaism.
* 1517: Safed [Tzfat] Israel, Jews were evicted from their homes, robbed and plundered, and they fled naked to the villages.
* 1679–1680: Imam of Yemen (Rassid dynasty) – Jews of nearly all cities and towns in Yemen exiled to a remote desert and left to die.
* 1840-1908: after the Damascus affair – blood libel, riots and massacres of Jews were carried out in Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jerusalem (1847), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901–02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901–07), Port Said (1903, 1908), Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891), Istanbul (1870, 1874), Buyukdere (1864), Kuzguncuk (1866), Eyub (1868), Edirne (1872), Izmir (1872, 1874).
* 1864: Solica (Sulaika) Hachuel – The Moroccan Teenager Who Died for Her Jewish Faith.
_____
Note: While, overall, in Chr. Countries it was far worse. Facts should not be altered, nevertheless. Truth to be told, there were some prolonged good times in Europe, but the European historic bloodshed and persecution is incomparable, of course.
Dear @SQUARE_ROOT, I found online the French version of the Book you mentioned, printed in 1866, I translated it into English:
Schwab, M., Bertinoro, O. (1866). Voyages: Lettres d’Obadia de Bertinoro, 1487-89. France: au bureau des Archives israëlites.
PAGE 23:In general, they present themselves in all Islamism as poor and deprived of everything; they have a shabby dress like beggars, and they bend their backs to the Muslims.
Every few decades there was some massacre there. The worst persecution might have been in Yemen.
The Almohads were terrible, which explains what RabeinuBachyei wrote in רבינו בחיי [בראשית כא יד ד”ה ויתכן].
And the Rambam’s letter is famous .
[‘אגרת תימן’ להרמב”ם דף יד].
____Overall Dhimmitude treatment was the attitude – second class.
____However, we must remember that there were many periods of good times for Jews among the Arabs, when in Europe it was not.
And we should remember their reception after Gerush-Sfarad.
____
Until Shavuot 1941 תש”א there were no massacres in Iraq recorded, but after the Nazi propaganda by Fritz Grobba, al Sabawi’s Mein-Kampf into Arabic / Palestine Mufti al Husseini and his pals who escaped there from the Brits in 1937 – hate incitement intensified resulting in the Farhoud pogrom where some estimate up to a 1,000 died. Children were thrown in the waters in front of parents and other brutalities which I prefer not to detail here…This genocidal schene is known as Play For Slay.
ר”ל.Copy pasting about debated Kastner does not exempt the poster from being required to ask Mechile from 500,000 yiden….
To UJM, please do not rewrite history.
The murders of the Hews were ONLY Gernan Nazis and their Euroean active helpers. Period.___
Sure there were individuals that tried to bring over from Europe and did rescue some 80,000 German Jews. It was controversial even among the Zionists and even these, paid the Brits to ban Eichmann from staying in Palestine in his secret 1937 tour – all before it was known the Final Solution that was declared in Wannsee Conference in 1941 and most of the world did not know of the ongoing wholesale slaughter till 1942
“Collaboration” isn’t an accurate term on Zionists as a whole. And there was Kastner’s case, still debated till today.
But it was not about admiring the Axis’ ideology such as on the opposite side of the Zionists, the Arabs.I’m not here to defend the Zionists and their record, but it’s still, all not related to:
* Active help by Arab Palestine LEADERSHIP al-Husseini, the Mufti ym”s and his entire entourage of hundreds including Jamal Husseini and Ahmad Shukeiri who later on (1964) established the PLO.
* 1935, the Mufti ym”s with Jamal Husseini established the Futuwwa HitlerJugend type.
* At least since 1936, he, the leadership collaborated, got arms from Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy to attack Jews and Brits.
* The Mufti ym”s active intervention against rescue thousands of European children from reaching Mandatory Palestine, instead, they were sent to death r”l.
* There were several Arabs from Syria/Palestine serving at concentration camps.
* Shukeiri wrote in his book, he and all around him rejoiced, prayed for, at every victory step by A.H. ym”s against the allies, ever since 1941.
* His incitement, push, Fascists Futuwwah FARHOUD pogrom on Iraqi Jews, on Shavuot 5701 (June/41), in which some estimate, upto 1,000 Jews could have perished.
* Mufti ym”s meeting A H. Ym”s Nov/28/41 who told him: “The Jews are yours. ”
* Mufti ym”s Radio broadcasts to the entire Arab, Muslim world to: “kill the J…s wherever they are, this please Allah.” (Radio, at the time was THE most powerful media that reached all. Entire families used to gather around it, and if didn’t have, had visited those that had).
* 80% of (mandatory) Palestine Arabs supported the Fascists Axis per 1941 poll.
* Historian H. Erlich: all major newspapers in Palestine supported the Fascists, full of admiration of A.H. ym”s.
* Upon hearing plight of Jews in Europe, most Arabs in (Mandatory) Palestine cheered it, reported Mr Cohen (1942).
* Mufti ym”s led Moslem SS units, committing atrocities.
* Asides from his joint Arab-Nazi Atlas Operation – according to some, to poison some 250,000 Tel Aviv residents.
* And of course the Mufti Ym”s plan to erect crematoria in the Dotan Valley “as soon” as he expected the Nazis to reach Israel Palestine, which they failed in Al Alamein battle, B”H.
* 1946, Ahmad Shukeiri [Shukairy] and Jamal al-Husseini justified the slaughter of 6,000,000 Jews Kdoshim hy”d.
* Ever since the 1950s, A.H. book in Arabic has been most popular – rather in the Arab world, and a best seller in Ramallah since 1999.
* 2014 and 2020, per ADL, 93% of Arabs in West Bank and Gaza are anti-Semitic.
* Last year, an activist fluent in Arabic (E.C.) asked on social media to his close to half a million of followers on their feeling of A H., most justified him.
What are you saying Commonsaychel?
Even though I’m not for going up to Temple Mount, the double standard is horrific. And it i’s a pattern.
Huju. I guess, the OP reminded that every body knows that most Bnei Brak residents do not serve in the army, yet the Arab targeted them. And out of Halachic reasons do not visit the Temple Mount either.
Avira, I’m surprised that someone would even suggest that ahead of the Passover massacre anniversary…among so many r”l.
Avira. Hadera, and Beer Sheva were not “settlers”.
Just a note. I presume, the real full sgulah of Parshas HaMann is when one recites with Kavonoh.
Their leadership in Gaza/W.Bank never rejected their Hitlerist Mufti either. The worst thing is that inside Israel the Arab leadership is on the wrong side of morality. Which US not disconnected to the last two ISIS murderous attacks, Beer Sheva, Hadera.
R. Eliezer. Yes, Hishtadlus.
A few months back another racist Islamist Palestinian burned Tehillim. The wider troubling part is that they upoad it on their social media and thousands like minded like it. But font expect THAT duo bigots in Congress to condemn it, while they pretend to be “against” racism.
Melave malke
..Shocking. Thanks Shalom. And this is an Arab living inside Israel.
Science too, and midterm elections has also its necessities…
OP is right.
I’m sure there were good guys there too. But facts are facts.‘Ivan the terrible’ in Treblinka, anybody?
Haaretz which is never accused of bashing enemies if the Jewish people..
Ofer Aderet, Haaretz correspondent: “The Ukrainians did not help the Jews in the Holocaust, really, really, really not. They were the so-called ‘Nazis and their aides’. They helped locate, inform and lead the Jews to the killing pits. John Demjanjuk was Ukrainian. They were eager to commit murder of Jews even without an order, in order to express their hatred. ”
Still.
Given all that, we should all help now all Ukrainians of course.Thank You Reb Eliezer for that tip, link.
@aviradeha….. security measures are not “apartheid”.
Re “Palestinian” areas…
___
Here is a random news of today. While Arabs move about everywhere without fear from Jews. This is what happened when someone tried to enter at a “Palestinian ” town, after the racist Arab masses realized he is a Jew…
_____
“Scary . Watch the lynching attempt on the taxi driver in Nablus by bloodthirsty Arabs.”
0404 News, Feb.8.22.
A taxi driver who entered Nablus after the elimination of the terrorists was almost killed by an angry mob | View documentation from the lynching attempt.
A Jewish taxi driver, a resident of the center of the country, entered Nablus today (Tuesday) with his vehicle, shortly after the three terrorists were eliminated, and was attacked by an angry mob who tried to murder him with stones, other objects, beatings and knives. Among the attackers are adult terrorists, youths…
Miraculously, the Jew emerged alive from the scene of the incident. The driver managed to reach a military blockade and there received medical treatment. The condition of was defined as mild.After the incident, the Jew was detained for questioning at the police station, where he said that he entered Nablus to repair his taxi. At one point he was identified as a Jew by the Arabs and they began to try to lynch him.
@er.
Not only are Arabs equal citizens in all aspects but are often treated BETTER than Israel treats Jews, including in:
Most court issues.
Exemptuon of Draft.
Land issues.
Access to holy sites.
Evacuation of illegal posts..
Police enforcement.
Asides from affirmative action in employment and on campus.
__
As mentioned above, the buzzword was invented in 1961.
In any case. It’s not about “fact” but about demonization.The A slur was invented in Oct 1961 by Shukeiri who helped Hilter since 1941 and rationalized the Holocaust in 1946.
Ever since, it became a buzzword.
That was almost 6 years before the ’67 war which some call certain parts an “occupation”
To @maxist, Secular workforce which limits Haredi employment because of anti-Haredi attitudes among others (due to bigoted vicious Haaretz incitement, for example) among other issues, is a separate matter..
.If “Human rights groups” had ever been fair to Israel and not hijacked by propagandists, only then it would be a point in sending these usual examples of Arabs getting preferential treatment…
___
Regarding the source of the conflict, aka bigotry, among the big mistakes the Brits did in 1920 was to reinstate the Falastin newspaper which the Turks banned for its racism in Apr-1914. (See Elie Kedourie, ‘Zionism & Arabism in Palestine and Israel’, reprinted 2015, p. 8)
What is so great about tasty food is that it is being used for OnegShabbos..Thus spirit-ualizing the material…
Meanwhile, in other news, the latest of preferential treatment for Arabs…
Arie Yoeli at Srugim news:
An Arab vehicle passes; A Jewish vehicle was stopped at the checkpoint again by the army’s forces stopping the vehicles that make their way to settling a Homesh settlement for Melave Malka. Residents testified that at the military checkpoint enables Arab vehicles to pass and stop only the Jews.Diversions?
So lunatics of “palestine” he an explanation why no.1 supportes of violent Palestinians – the Islamic Republic of Iran – lost 131 thousands to COVID…
Number relates to half of Russian latest immigrants maybe?
Very dear akuperma. We have a problem only with racists. We love all human beings. And according to holy Talmud (Brachot 10a) we hate only the sin not the sinner. Ahavath haBrioth אהבת הבריות means all creatures.
Not much has changed at the root of “confict” – over 90 years…
“Jews Urge Arabs To Shun Bigotry…”
Wireless to THE NEW YORK TIMES. July 18, 1930, Page 7:
‘JERUSALEM, July 17.–Deep emotional feeling marked the Jewish representatives’ final addresses before the League of Nations Wailing Wall commission today. In stirring terms the Jews appealed to the Moslems not to be influenced by religious bigotry but to seek a settlement of the present dispute as generously as possible.’