hereorthere

Health I do not know that Dan L’caf Z’cus applies to professions or in politics.

If the AMA was against Obama care they should be fighting instead of giving into the armtwisting.

If you give into evil you are doing evil.

Here is another thing.

The hospitals will give illegal aliens top notch treatment absolutely free, but they will hound an American citizen like me to pay bills they can’t afford for a misdiagnosis.

There was, about 7 or 8 years ago (not sure the exact year and month), a report (I think it was in the NY Times, not sure now) that doctors had tested a new Alzheimers treatment on a handful of patients in various states of progression of the disease and possibly a few who did not have it but were at risk for it.

The treatment caused inflamation in their brains, but when the swelling went away those who had Alzheimers had a complete reversal of the disease and those who didn’t yet have it didn’t get it.

Complete reversal of symptoms and immunity from it in the future.

They stopped the testing and basically closed up shop.

The claim at the time, was supposedly that the brain inflamation was dangerous and they were worried about brain damage (they said).

My belief is that the inflammation was the sign that the treatment as working the same way a finger gets swollen when it gets smashed or burned…The swelling is the body repairing itself and getting rid of germs or dead tissue so the healthy part can regrow.

How much brain damage does someone have to worry about with a disease that is all about brain damage and always ends in death (till now)?

If you check with the Alzheimers Foundation of America (I believe that is who I emailed once) they will confirm the study, but now hedge in saying that it cured anyone, as the origional report stated.

They also claim that the brain inflammation was the reason it was supposedly stopped.

I think those doing the testing, were simply afraid of actually having a real cure, on their hands.

I actually learn the opposite from that story; That no one ELSE (other then the persons own Rav) has the right to judge them and decide what level ‘they think’ he is on.

Also, if any Rav paskens that even if two things are permitted, but that when both are easily available, that one should use the “more machmir (for lack of better terminology)” choice then obviously one who holds on that level even when it is a bit less easy to do so, is not being arrogant in holding by “high levels” that he has no business thinking he is on.

If that were the case, the Rabbonnim would have warned against it and certainly none ever did, regarding Cholov Yisroael, that I have heard about.

I further think, that if some Rav had given such a warning, someone would have posted it on this thread, by now.

Cherrybim posted;

;;;;;;;;hereorthere – “Are you saying that Rav Feinstein would eat from all those heschers you mentioned, that Rav Gronish would not eat from?”

I’m using your logic, so unless you know otherwise, I’ll assume that Rav Moshe would have eaten OU Heinz ketchup and Tam Tam crackers and KAJ or Weismandl chickens, to name a few.:::::::::

My response;

You are ‘not’ “using my logic”, because I simply asked a question

(which you still haven’t answered).

Unlike you, I did not ‘assume’ anything.

Health when I see that the AMA and most doctors seem so willing to force us into Obama care, it tells me they are nothing but greedy, corrupt crimionals who will lie and cheat and do anything underhanded to benifit themselves at everyone elses expense.

No those who oppose such things and are good doctors I respect.

But me or my family, have either personally experienced one horror story after another at big hospitals or I have heard first hand from someone else who has about most of them.

These two factors personal experience and their public support of communist oppression and destruction of what was once, a free country have hardly endeared the medical profession on the whole, to me.

How about the fact that they have a cure for Alzheimers and will not make it publically available or even admit it works?

They have lied about the data and make up excuses to claim it’s no good, despite the fact it worked totally in clinical trials, on half dozen or so, people they tested it on.

Just think of all those hospital beds and millions of doctors and hospitals who make collectively billions per year treating Alzheimers patients and what would happen to their industry, if all those people suddenly got well.

I can only try;

That is one of my points.

I think the money Israel got, did far more harm then good.

If they had not gotten it, Egypt might not have gotten any either.

And Israel would ahve been forced to be less socialistic and more capitalistic in order to survive.

This in turn would have made them more prosperous and they would have done it totally on their own without America havinfg any ‘right’ to tell them what they ‘must’ give up for more terrorism.

As you pointed out they lost some oil and a military base.

So they never in tended to keep it, that is yet another mistake they made.

America certainly intended to keep California.

Israel could have kept the Sinai.

If Egypt was not burdened with trying to fight Israel there would have been no reason for them to ever want any ‘treaty’ and no reason not to break one, later on.

They needed cash from America just like Israel got.

Other treaties made by other countries have both sides gaining something or one country is forced to sign as a defeated side in a war.

Egypt lost, but was allowed to negotiate as if they were on a totally equal footing with Israel but they gave up absolutely nothing tangable as an “equal partner”.

Only Israel has made such foolish treaties, no other country has ever done so.

30 years later Egypts treachery has helped bus bombings and terrorists smuggling and thousands of Kaytusha Rockets being fired into Israel.

The fact that those rockets havent killed thousand of people, was

due to G-ds miraculous protection, ‘not’ because Egypt was not aiding and abetting the terrorists, every step of the way.

Cherrybim obviously if there are Rabbonim who do not hold like Rav Feinstein and people legitimately follow those other rabbonim then Rav Feinstein was ‘not’ paskening for ‘everyone’.

Or to put it another way; I believe Rav Gronish will also pasken for anyone who asks him a sheila he will not (to my knowledge) tell someone “You are not chasiddish, so I will not pasken for you”.

Are you saying that Rav Feinstein would eat from all those heschers you mentioned, that Rav Gronish would not eat from?

I didn’t, what was it about (I mean in detail, please don’t just say, “Moschiach”)?

Rabbi Gronesh (sp) is a very well respected Rav in the New York Flatbush area.

Last week he told me very clearly in no uncertain terms that the requirement for Cholov Yisroael was L’chatchila.

And he said it more then once making sure I heard it clearly with no uncertainties whatsoever.

When I asked him about those who eat Cholov Stam who quote Rav Feinstien and the idea that in America Cholov Stam was relied on in that the laws requred it to not have anything in it that would make it trief (not that American law was made for Kashrus’ sake but in this case, it works out that way) Rav Gronesh told me that

there are those Rabbonim who rely on the idea that C’S’ according to them fulfills the requirement for C’Y’, and some people follow that.

But he made it clear that there is no question whatsoever that

C’Y’ is L’chatchila and that C’S’ is not “the same” as C’Y’.

As I have said before I personally am no scholar and do not know these things.

This is what a very well respected Rav, who gives Heschers all over the world (from what others, not the Rav himself has said in response to my questions about why he sometimes did not join the minyan in his shule, for a few days at time), has told me.

Those who argue with my repetition and understanding of what the Rav said, can ask him themselves.

Those who argue with the ideas themselves, are not arguing with me, they are arguing with the Rav.

YW Moderator-80 they gave my mother medicine that aggrivated (sp) her condition, and may have (probably did) caused her to get Parkensins Disease.

Nothing but incompetence, can explain this.

Foolish is another way of saying the same thing so I think, really we are agreeing, here.

I further agree with you that they are arrogant.

Well the liberals are, and the conservatives are more careful and humble, I have found.

I can only try;

So that provision wasn’t added.

Now, what can anyone do if the other Arab states attack Israel and Egypt in violation, joins them anyway?

If Israel had not signed that treaty, the Egyptian economy probably would have collapsed from trying to build up, to keep fighting Israel, and Israel would have had far more land by keeping the Sinai (on maps I have seen it looks to me like at least twice, Israels entire present, land mass).

This was why Sadat said “I feel sorry for Begin, we got all this land back, and all he got was a piece of paper”.

I would say that those peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan are worthless, because all they did was give Egypt an dJordan respectively breathing room tgo build up thdeir weapons and armies after Israel had devestated them.

They did not actually make Israel safer, in any way.

Egypt still has terrorist traffiking and smuggling tunnels bringing in terrorists to Israel and Jordan has had terrorist shooting into Israel from within their territory.

Egypt’s attitude is that in any next wars between the Arab

countries and Israel Egypt will side with the Arabs, and not just “remain neutral”.

Jordan I believe, has the same attitude.

You mean there is no milk produced from non Kosher animals LEGALLY.

You cannot …..PROVE…. Every milk producer, follows the law.

It was the ‘other’ liberals, not Bush who “got us into the wars”.

Bill Clinton for example could have gotten Bin Ladin and thus we never would have had an attack on the Twin Towers we had to respond to.

And Bush inherited a recession from Clinton, it may have been just starting the month before Bush took over, but Bush fixed it then we had 911 which was hard on the economy which Bush also led us through recovery from.

It was the liberal media that even before Bush took office, started talking down the economy and kept it up all through Bush’s term trying ti scare people into not buying and whe they finally responded it put people out of work who then couldn’t pay their mortgages and thus the downward spiral started caused by the liberal media, not Bush.

OK they care more about outside opinion.

But again, what specifically can we do?

But will they have a hard time following (or not following) chumras, properly?

These problems would very likely not exist or be much smaller if liberals had never had any power in this country.

Obama is part of the problem because he is a liberal promoting liberal policies and agendas.

But obviously he was not the first or only liberal.

Bush was also a liberal just not as bad as Obama.

Bush did a few things right but there was plenty of liberalism in his policies, as well.

But to find the roots of the problem you’d probably have to go back to the early 1800’s or so.

President Andrew Jackson, warned us not to have paper money, for example.

I understand that this post, might be being read by those who would look for excuses to harrass Torah following Jews.

However, I am not sure what we outside of Israel, can do about the secular anti Torah government in Isreal.

Is this supposed to be a list of all the greatest presidents or just the greatest within peoples lifetimes?

If it is the former, we should list Washington and Lincoln as well.

Also the actuall descision and command to attack Pearl Horbor probably rested only with a few individuals at the top of the Chain of command in Imperial Japan.

I would not blame all Japanese for the descisions of those few anymore then I would blame all Jews for what some corrupt Israeli politician does.

Now as a country we were at war with, it was certainly right and proper to vilify them as much as possible and view them as the enemy, to be smashed to bits and to violently hate.

But now that the war is over, to hate their descendents would be like the antisemites who lie about what “the Jews” supposedly did to their guy who falsly claimed to be G-d, and then blaming Jews today for it even if it were true (and it wasn’t and isn’t).

Also remember some of them helped save many Jews escaping from the nazis in Europe who eventually made their way to Shanghai China which was controlled by the Japanese till the end of the war (even though after about 6 months or so as I remember a video about it saying, the Japs did put the Jews into a type of Ghetto at the insistance of their allies, the Nazis, Yerach Shmo).

So did Rav Feinstein specifically say that, if someone poured Cholov Stam into a Cholov Yisroael container there was no difference?

Did I remember it wrong something about a case where he rulled it ok for a mother feeding her baby where there was no choice, but in a place like Boro Park he had rulled that there was no reason not to be strict with Cholov Yisroael as opposed to Cholov Stam?

I do not know these things but I thought I had heard something about it?

Am I wrong?

Further I had heard some cases of some milk producers trying to get away with mixing in pigs milk into regular milk because it makes more milk because pigs milk is much sweeter and thicker?

I thought I had heard of this happening even in America?

Am I wrong or has anyone else, also heard of this?

Yes you also said you do not hold differently, but in earlier posts it seemed that you supported these government regulations.

Even here you say “Too bad for us that we

need to be looking on labels in Grocery (until the consumer will change it, if we work together)” which could mean the consumer must change it to be more regulated.

If not then what do you mean here?

I do not understand because it was not clear, and still isn’t.

Nnnnnn;

Yes there are Cholov Yisroael versions of things that are at least similar (if not exactly alike) to everything you mentioned.

The kosher version of M&M’s are even called that name by those who eat them, even though the name on the package is something named from a kosher company and is not made by the same company that makes M&M’s, but they taste the same 🙂

Now something like, Reeses Peanut Butter cups and Butter Finger bars, I have not seen in Cholov Yisroael, recently, but most things are available in Cholov Yisroael versions.

I think if Cholov Stam and Cholov Yisroael were simply different levels of kashrus with nothing more to it, It would seem strange then that Rav Moshe Feinstein (sp) A’H’, wrote a section especially on Cholov Stam and Cholov Yisroael.

I am not scholarly enough to go into the whole argument about what he said, that is for scholars (and I am no scholar) to debate.

But it is undeniable that The Rav spent time to address the issue, so just form that, it seems to me to be a bigger issue then simply whether you eat meat strictly from a Heimishe Hescher, or not.

About what you said; For instance my self. I do enjoy eating with the diet we’re talking about.

Like I said previously, there is extreme large choices (selection) in the grocery. We can even have almost every Nosh, Cake (for the craving kids) as I do. We can switch to Trans-Fat free (A lately option), Products without “H.F. Corn Syrup”. (plain corn syrup OR fructose, etc).

What do you say to that.”

Actually I look at the labels and usually avoid transfats.

Some things I thought were really tasty I avoided because they had transfats in them.

My problem is not with nutritional awareness or with better healthy choices.

My problem is with government mandating it.

Once government is allowed to decide for us what we may or may not have, it is guaranteed to eventually lead to an oppressive situation like Soviet Russia or worse like North Korea where people literally starve to death, under such government control.

Peoples’ worst enemies, often come to them as friends pretending to care about them, like liberals, so concerned with ‘your health’ for example.

If they care so much about people and their well being and about their children, they would be constantly campaigning to stop school bullying, which is far worse by many times, then childhood obesity (and in fact is probably one factor causing childhood obesity, because the kid who is afraid to go out and exercise because of bullies, will stay indoors and ‘not’ get that exercise).

Obviously they are not on a campaign to stop neighborhood and school bullying, thus proving they care nothing about the childrens’ well being.

Since they are so obviously lying (and that is just one small example of a massive overwhelming, ship load, of proof) about what their true agenda really is, I would never trust them to run my life and would resist with any (albiet meager) power, I have, the idea of them gaining even more control over my life then they have now.

Just remember in Germany in the 1920’s a certain group that rose to power on the basis of “improving society”.

Or Stalin who used the same theme to take over ‘his’ country and become it’s absolute dictator.

Jews did far worse then most others in both countries during that era.

Jews should be the absolute ‘last’ ones, to trust any government with increasing power over their lives (and that includes a Jewish government, like the seculars in Israel).

You said; “Be careful with the Trans-Fat free symbol. Look Only on Ingredients! It shouldn’t be any of the word

H-y-d-r-o-g-e-n-a-t-e-d OR Vegetable Fat at least.

Nutrition Facts is an additional confusion factor.(next time) “

Yes I know this, but it is good information, so I appreciate you posting it here.

Thanks.

Sam responsible I said “Hereorthere, about what you said.

As far as your kids going into a grocery, it is not up to government or the store owner to regulate everything for everyone else for the sake of your (or anyones) kids.”

And you responded:

::::::::::::”I left out an example. The consumer (environment) should change as I mentioned before, for the sake of our kids. That means even your home is clean of the bad, your kids getting it somewhere else- at weddings, Kadeishim, siyum’s in cheder etc.”::::::::::::

Banning it so your kids can’t get to it is like banning all private ownership of anything and saying no one can have anything

to keep buy or well or give away, so that there will be nothing for anyone to steal.

We can’t do that, even in Soviet Russia people still had things they owned.

What we all have to do it to teach our kids not to steal.

The same with candy and food.

If you raise your kids to be decent people who obey their parents

you do not have to worry about what they will take when they know their parents (and H-sh-m who gave the commandment to all of us obey our parents) would not approve of it and has clearly told them so.

What about smoking and drugs?

Those too are already outlawed for kids to have and use, but many do anyway.

How has banning such things (at least for kids) stopped some from using them? It hasn’t.

Those who do not obey and who want to do it will do it.

It is how you raise your children, not how the government will raise your children, that will make the difference.

G-d put us in this world and told us to make the Gashmius holy, not to totally stay away from it.

Most mitzvohs are done with gashmius Tphilling are physical so is Matzoh and Wine and a Sefer Torah are all physical things.

You cannot regulate the world into safety not in terms of physical health and not in terms of spiratual health.

People must raise their kids to be healthy and responsible, not try and order the world to change so they can be safe while still being irresponsible, that is not the Torah way.