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“hereorthere: “It will just bring out the flaws and endlesly analyse them without accomplishing anything”
hello99 says;
“So, do you oppose mussar and cheshbon hanefesh “
There is a time and a place for evrything which by definition means, for each thing, there are times and places where it is wrong to do.
Charliehall says;
“hereorthere,
What is wrong with a woman becoming a doctor? I can think of few other careers in which one is constanly performing mitzvah after mitzvah after mitzvah after mitzvah. My wife finished her medical residency shortly before we met.”
Did you on another thread complain about being a poker player?
And how much Chazal would disapprove?
I never said there was anything wrong with her being a doctor.
I said that anyone who thinks that if her husband does not PUSH her to do it, that he must be some kind of “woman hater” is someone I think is going off the derech and you would be hard peressed to find any Gadol who would say otherwise.
By the way since you bring it up not everything where someoe can accomplish something is necessarily something that just anyone should do.
For example I think being an astronaut, is a very nobel profession expanidng the frontiers of knowledge about the universe and promoting knowledge of the wonders beyond our own planet, but that does not mean a JEW should be the one doing it because of problems keeping Shabbos and similar issues.
Who says a woman is accomplishing so much by being a doctor and not raising her own kids who then G-d forbid, fry out, or pretend to ‘stay frum’ when in fact they really are far from it and living a lie?
And I personally know someone in a situation where they have no clue as to the fact that their kids are goiong way off the derech because they are not there for them, when they should be.
But you are right, I am trying to be more accepting of those who it looks to me like may not be ‘trying’ to follow Torah as carefully as I think I and the rest of us all should.
If it does not look much different on my part, plaese understnd this if very hard for me, I did not choose something light or easy just to say “I did it”.
Sorry but I was with you untill you gave your example.
Ahavas chinnom does not mean violating the Torah by supporting cold blooded murderers.
I hate to say it but that really was the worst example someone could have given.
Poster; Some new units have a thermostat that can be placed elsewhere in the room to help avoid that false reading.
They should also have units that you can set the temperature and then set “the real temperature”.
For example if the temperature reads as 78 degrees and you want it at 78 throughout the room you should be able to set the unit
lower till it reaches ‘true’ 78 throughout the room.
Or be able to set the compressor to stay on for a certain amount of time even after it reaches maximum coolness as registered on the thermostat.
I can only try;
#1 I am talking about a place that was appox 450 square feet and the big air conditioner was at least 18,000 BTU’s (possibly 28,000 BTU’s it was hard to read that first number of it was a 1 before the #8000 or if it was a 2).
My next largest unit was something like 5000 BTU’s and it worked like an ice cube in an oven.
OK not really that bad, but not so good, either.
#2 The room got down to about 40 degrees and took at least 3 hours to get back up to over 70 (plus the rise in humidity)where it was too uncomfortable for me to wait any longer to keep it off.
#3 That is just plain wrong, the cooler the room is the longer it will take to get back up to any specific temperature that someone decides is “too hot” that is simple physics.
#4 Mine was a much older model and it DID get the room much colder. You cant tell me with any credibility that I did not experience, what I experienced.
Thanks to liberalism and political correctness, they are not allowed to make them like that anymore.
#5 I had a timer but it took me well over an hour to feel comfortable with a weaker air conditioner even with it turned on before I got home which made my eloectric bills well over $200 per month, (please don’t get into the old argument that my bills could not have been that high because while families do not have such high bills I have spent YEARS arguing with friends and neighbiors about that one and they KNEW my personal situation and
they could not come up with an answer to fit their claims of how much the bill should have been.
The neighbor is stealing your electricity and the company is over charging you. None of those theories ever fit what was going on.).
#6 Others have told me the fans used more AC then peope think they do.
You are right my AC was never big enough no matter how much the “experts” said otherwise and I could not even find any places willing to sell me an air conditioner that fit what I knew I needed.
#7 I can’t run new lines because it is not my place and the land lord does not want new lines there because he wants the electricity included in the bill and more lines means he has a bigger bill.
This is just one of many reasons why my life is so bad as I have mentioned in other threads.
Since we all know that everyone has some flaws because there is no such a thing as a perfect human;
Won’t any kind of “pre marital therapy” be counter productive?
It will just bring out the flaws and endlesly analyse them without accomplishing anything just like the president is endlessly analysing the Gulf oil spill without accomplishing anything.
The reason people despite their flaws stay married is because they make it a point to accomplish being together despite the flaws, not to go over them and highlight them and sit and worry about the fact that “my intended spouse has flaws”.
When both people go into marriage with the idea that it is supposed to be forever (at least 999 out of 1000 times) the marriage usually works even if it is not perfect (because nothing ever is).
But when they go into it thinking “well there is always divorce”
There is a much greater chance, there will be one.
If people go into dating with the idea that “even though people all have flaws, I will marry, only once they are all worked out” I think that person will either go into marriage so deluded that it will undrmine the marriage (thinking the flaws are all fixed) or they will possiboly never find ‘the right one’.
This is one reason (not necessarly the only reason but one important reason) why I think there is the ‘shidduch crises’ that has been mentioned in at least one other thread.
If everyone has flaws and must be perfect to marry, or have their flaws fixed by the “flaw repair shop”, before getting married, then who can ever get married?
Here is another reason to get a way over powerred unit.
Right now I live in a tiny place, (much smaller then my last with much higher rent, same way all over, for most of us right?)
Anyway the electrical is very schvach here with far fewer lines and not a single one in the house dedicated just for my use as I had had in the other place.
This means that if I had to run an air conditrioner all the time to stay cool, I would keep blowing circuits out(which I cannot reset since only the landlord has access to the breakers, and he is quite often, not home)especially if I tried to run the air conditioner and the electric oven (no gas in my place for my personal use, like for my stove or oven)at the same time.
So if I could run a far more powerful unit for a lot less time and then have it off while I cooked or heated up some dinner, i could stay cool and still get the use out of every electric and electronic device, I need to use.
I have had an air condotioner that was far more powerful (at least 3 or 4 times more powerful) and used much more electricity (when actually running) then was considered to be needed for that room.
Later I have had units that were supposed to be “the proper size” for the room.
The larger and more powerful one saved me a huge amount on my electric bill.
For one thing, it did cool the room down very quickly (and after a long hard day of physical labor where I felt like I had been in a hot muggy steam bath full of dirty air and dirty water, that quick colling made the difference between getting to bed at a reasonable time, or staying up much later taking showers and the drying off and still being too hot or just staying up waiting to try and cool down) which by itsef made it worth it.
Also it made the room so cool that it was quite comfortable for many hours afterwards which meant many hours per day where the electricity was not being used.
I could use a timer and have it go on for about 30 minutes and stay off for the next 3-4 hours even on the hottest and most horribly humid, days.
Since I like it far colder then most other people, I would imagine that the average person could probably have it off, for at least twice that long, after it cooled the place down.
All the other air conditioners I have had that were said by the ‘experts’ (as well as friends and neighbors) to be,
“the proper size” for the room were never cool enough for me and I had the run them al the time during summer and still it was never cool enough for me.
This wasted a huge bundle of electricity, and really ran my bill way up.
Add to that, the fact that I had to still use fans, because the air was still not cool enough and people ahve told me that running fans is not so cheap either, especially when it is in addition to, and not in place of…running the air conditioner.
I’ll, take a way over powered unit as opposed to a small
‘putt putt’ “barely do anything” device (no matter how ‘right size, the experts and your friends and family claim it is’), any day.
I agree with, Emoticon613;
I think a lot of it is also because of secular liberal influences.
For example Feminism is infiltrating the Jewish communitry and often unless the man is going to push the women into becomming a doctor or lawyer or business executive or some other “high powered” career some of them think these days that he will “think of her only as an object” whereas they USED to think of raising the kids to do Torah and mitzvohs and work on being tzaddikim and bringing Moshiach, rather then their own personal ‘honor’ that they get from their careers.
You can see the Feminism thread for a more full discussion on this aspect since discussing it in detail here, would probably get it deleted.
Health; If as you imnplied, you make money only, when people are sick then who is
making all the money from all these:
?face-to-face evaluations with their health care providers, consulting on their important medical concerns.
And
?Tailoring the diets to their specific situations, including weight-loss goals and any health conditions they might have?
At one time I was working two jobs and dead tired all the time.
My supervisor wanted me to come for his wedding.
If I did not come at all, he would have been insulted and made things harder for me at work.
If I stayed the entire time, I would have either missed the next day at work, or been so dead on my feet I would have done nothing but made mistakes and get sent home after a bad argument and possibly even lost my job.
He accepted that I was going to come for a just few minutes, say Mazal Tov, and leave.
It does not have to be about someone in the hospital for it to be a valid reason.
Also in general I do not like the extra loud music that causes hearing loss with enough exposure (much less then most people probably think is needed, to cause hearing loss.).
How do you sart a new thread?
I can’t find anything to click on, to start a new thread.
I have heard more than once of the idea that there as something wrong with someone being to identified as who they are based on what they do for work.
Wolf how about a translation or at least tell us which chapter and verse?
SJSinNYC
“hereorthere, Do you think women are JUST wives and mothers? Are men JUST husbands and fathers? I don’t know about you, but in addition to me being a wife and mother, I am also a daughter, grandaughter, aunt, neice, friend, engineer, shul committee member, knitter, reader, bargain shopper, have a thirst for learning random subjects, love hiking and traveling, happy person with many other traits and thoughts and opinions. And I make a really great cheesecake :-)”
So how is any of this a ‘totally separate entity FROM being a wife and mother?”
If any of this is more important then being a wife and mother I’d like to see the Psakin by Gdolim that supports such an idea.
I never said you husband obeys you I ASKED you questions, which you still haven’t answered.
You don’t believe women are better then men?
Then how come on a tznuis thread you admitted you browbeat your own boys as mysoginists who “only see women as objects”?
“I’m not sure what I am saying that is against halacha or hashkafa. Wouldn’t you call a society where women are the breadwinners and have much more secular education a feminist society?”
Not if both the women and men had the same attitudes and hashkofas as Rabbi Akivah’s wifge and of Rabbi Akivah, respectively (as opposed to the anti Torah attitudes about it so prevelent these days like then Loshon Hara that boys supposedly see women “only as objects” ).
“Oh and hereorthere, yes, ritalin is overused because schools cannot often handle overactive kids disrupting the classroom.”
So all those people with FIRST hand experience who say otherwise are all liars, huh?
“:They are understaffed. But your thoughts on it “pushing the liberal womens agenda” shows how little you really know about feminism.”
Your unsubstantiated claim about what I supposedly “don’t know”
is self evident as not true.
GITGEZUGT; I have heard that unmarried women often feel left out as they see their friends marry.
As they do so they tend to associate with their married friends and singles are not invited to so many get togethers anymore or included in some activities that the married friends decide to do together.
If there was some kind of place for such singles to get together, not just for marriage purposes but just to have others in their siatuation to a talk to and associate with, so they do not feel so alone and left out, it might help with the problems you mentioned in your last post.
Also perhaps the married ones might go more out of their way to let their friends know they haven’t forgotten about them and still consider them their friends and try and include them more in their activities and socializing.
Also Shiurim, perhaps something informal without the usual pressure of a class or lecture, perhaps more of an open discussion type of gathering, not to commiserate or complain, but to have something to look forward to, to learn and ask questions and forget about the pressures of life for awhile; Where such singles can get together and learn more about bitachon, might help.
Clearheaded; The problem is not that the boys “need discipline”, that is just an excuse they use to dope them up.
Boys are often more physically active and learn best by actually doing something (like working out a problem themselves and getting guidence only when they get stuck on one part and then still working it out themselves under guidence and again on their own, once they get over the part they were stuck on) while girls often learn best, by sitting and listening to a lecture.
The feminists running the Teachers Union, run the classes so that they are geared toward how girls learn best and when the boys are not being taught and just have sit there in a room geared toward the other gender, they get figity.
Then they are ‘called’ “discipline problems” and doped up instead of being taught properly.
If I showed you the evidence that this is done by design and is part of a plan to get women into all positions of power and eventually subjugate all men, you’d be stunned at how massive and factual and undeniable it is.
The problem is that some of the best sources of proof would for many reasons not be very appropriate for the WYN website.
But as I said you can see much of the evidence in todays politics and in the media like how commercials on radio and TV bash men all the time and always make men look very stupid while the women are always portrayed as being so much smarter and better in every way.
It is no ‘coincidence’ that in both business and in politics they go out of their way to hire or recruit, women over men even in cases where the men are far more qualified and experienced then any women seeking the particular position.
Company execs have been saying lately they would rather hire an inexperienced unqualified woman then face a discrimination lawsuit.
At least I recently read an online article (or radio news report, one or the other) where one CEO said something along those lines and he said it publically because it seems from other related news, and political discussions, to be common these days for people (including CEO’s) to have such a view.
The liberals have a stranglehold on society at all levels, and they are never going to let go. R’L’
As for looks being focused on in the heimish community; That has always been that way to at least some extent and it goes both ways with girls increasingly demanding the boys be successful
and/or “big learners”, for example.
I think feminism is creeping in, simply because it is not being guarded against, nearly as strongly, as it should be.
To clarify I personally heard these parents and doctors (and kids also) say these things and talk about the liberal feminist agendas being pushed in public schools.
Not that they talked to me privately and personally, I just heard them when they talked, in broadcasts and interviews.
Clearheaded, when the feminist agenda (or any other aspect of the liberal agenda) infiltrates the Torah community, it ios a serious danger, just like the Hellenists and Sadducies and “Enlightenment” Movement, of the 1800’s were and they all caused serious damage and sent many people off on an anti Torah path.
Also I have heard personally from parents and from doctors who have given personal and expert opinions about how bad Ritalin is in public school and how teachers have called up parents and personally told them that they had better start doping up their boys, or they could not come back to school.
Doctors have publically stated, that Ritalin affects the same brain centers, that Cocaine does.
Combine that with the fact that girls are not doped up with Ritalin (certainly nowhere near the rate, that boys are, if they are AT ALL)and the fact that because of this and also sexism against boys; Girls are entering college at 3 times the rate that boys are, plus all the media constantly bashing and putting boys and men, especially fathers, down all the time, and constantly promoting the “superior UBERwoman” who is always better then any man, in advertisements and in TV and movies and magazines etc….
:::”I’m starting with my sons. I am teaching them to respect women as people rather than objects.”;;;
As if that is all they would see them as, otherwise.
These are teh exact same words uszed by radical feminists when they teach that girls are BETTER then boys and dope them up in public school with Ritalin to keep them from learning properly just so the girls ccan get ahead of them in learning (public school subjects) and in life.
“Respect that they have thoughts, feelings, ideas etc that are not related to being a wife and mother.”
Like what exactly?
As fashion models?
” I am trying to give them a strong role model as a woman,”
What exactly is that if not as a wife and mother?
“and DH is giving them a strong role model as a man.”
What kind of ‘man’?
One who obeys his wife?
“Having their own thoughts and feelings is one thing.
Being so ‘independent’ so as to not wnat to marry or in any other way start following the Radical feminist anti male anti cohesive family….Agenda, is a totally different thing.
Bolded mine. You equated not wanting to marry with the radical feminist agenda.
Its ok to thin that way, but at least be honest about it.”;;;;;;;;;;
#1 You did not just talk about marriage, you also said that I said “having thoughts of her own” was wrong and I never said that.
#2 Moses said that the children were to guarantors of the Torah.
If Jews don’t marry they don’t have Children to follow Torah so there is something wrong with the average woman (or man) saying “I don’t feel like marrying, who cares about the next generation”?
#3 You say here there is nothingw rong with what
I said and just to be honest about it.
How about YOU being honest about it?
If you resally thought there was nothing wrong with it you would not have criticised me.
So what were YOU saying about honesty?
Have Rav R’ Elyashiv or R’ Kanievsky said they ‘know’ where the boundaries are?
To put it another way; Have they or would they: Map out a path for people to follow, where they pasken; “If you stay within the path we mapped out, you are fully permitted to go there.”?
Why does someone get to “have the last word” and then get to decide the topic should closed after they get the last word and now no one can respond even if they say something erronious?
Well, if they are not allowed at all because of questions about where the boundries are, if all the rabbonim agree that because of such concerns, no one may go at all, then it would seem to me that Toiveling in a Mikveh, no matter where, or how properly, would not help.
No I did not, either you can’t read, or you enjoy making up things people never said.
“A woman is her own person. She should only marry if its what she wants to do. There is nothing radical about that. “
So who said that, was radical?
SJSinNYC I never heard (before this thread) of a woman not wearing Tznius because she heard too much about it.
Having their own thoughts and feelings is one thing.
Being so ‘independent’ so as to not wnat to marry or in any other way start following the Radical feminist anti male anti cohesive family….Agenda, is a totally different thing.
Feif Un have you personally taken a poll of all Rabbionim to ‘know’ how “they all” hold?
Some Rabbonim (like mine) might say that “there are those who hold by Rav Moshe’s heter”.
That is not the same as saying, “that Rav”, holds by it, as well.
I never said that asking your Rav and being redirected by him, was Rav shopping.
I said that ‘only’ following meikel opinions, and always looking ‘only’ for a Rav who is meikel on each given issue, was Rav shopping.
And if that is a halachichly acceptable way of doing things, it goes against everything I have heard about the subject, till now.
Cherrybim; If you know your Rav is totally without question, against posting on the internet and you are still doing it, then on what basis should anyone listen to what you have to say since your are already by your own admission, sneaking around on the internet, deliberately going against what your own Rav would say about it?
SJSinNYC What is someone were to say “I’m tired iof hearing about abused women and about agunos”?
In some circles that is all they ever talk about.
One well known “Jewish” Paper had a section only about agunos in every issue (at least for a long while, durng one period) in which women were always victims of men and they made it sound as if all men were to blame for any instance, of any woman ever being unhappy.
Some never stop talking about such things, they have seemingly made talking about it, their life’s work.
Do they say “there is too much volume”?
Would ‘you’ agree with that assesment?
Do we say “stop talking about it because so much of it is turning people off to women who are abused or who are Agunos”?
I’m not saying Tznius should be talked about every second of every day.
I think there should be other ways of presenting it not ‘more’ but differently if the way it is being handled, is not working.
Again I did not say that anyone “was” Rav shopping.
I just said that if someone would hold by Rav Belsky ‘only’ when his Psakim were meikel and then hold by another rav for some meikel opinion in another area then to still a third Rav for his meikel opinion is still some other areaand so on and so on.
That ‘would’ be, Rav shopping.
Feif Un; Untill very recently I had never heard of Rav Belski, but since then, from what I have heard; I only have the greatest respect for him as he sounds like a Giant among the Gedolim.
I certainly NEVER insulted him or any other Gadol, nor did I ever say there was anything wrong with those who hold by him in everything (and don’t just go “rav shopping”, only for the most meikel opinions on each subject) also holding by his psak in this case.
And there is nothing wrong with those who rely on those other psakim either.
EDITED
You may have something like Chronic Bronchitis or simply be ot of shape.
In either case a little bit of exercise should (in my non medical opinion) help.
It can probably be a very minimal amount of exercise.
Even running for say half a city block, twice a week might help quite a lot.
Also in general (Not necesasarily for this ailment, but who knows? It might help for that, as well) drinking more water is usually good for most people especially those who usually have only soda, and other junk food types of drinks.
Feif Un; He might rely on OU when the product is something like a non milchig candy and not meat or anthing which needs to be bishul Yisroael.
Besides, who says he would ‘necessarily’ hold by OU in such a case, anyway?
So if you have a specific and particular individual cow that has had ths surgery and this particular cow dies within a year, then Rav Belsky paskens that it still is not treif?
Even if he paskens like that (and I do not know either way, that he does or does not) would all other Rabbonim agree with him?
If any Rav would disagree and paskens such a cow would be treif, then it would seem to me that someone who holds by their Rav who paskens, that such a cow is treif, then that person, if he drinks only C’Y’…..Would not be simply “following a chumra”, since he does not know, if the C’S’ milk from the cow that he might right now be drinking could be from, such a cow.
He would be keeping kosher, as paskened, by his Rav.