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There was plenty of materialism in previous generations.
Instead of cars they had fine horses to ride or to pull fancy expensive carriages.
Without referigerators, good food was more expensive to buy and keep and store and prepare so that too, was more for the rich then the poor.
Instead of cleaning equipment they had servants (who back then were more like slaves working for pittance wages and who could be ordered around almost like the families property).
The more servents the more prestige the people who had them had.
They had huge fancy houses on many acres of land, or alternately, top floors of city buildings that were exclusive and only the wealthy could get into.
Instead of doing hard sweaty work they could travel to cooler climates for summer and relax.
They had sailing yachts and fine fancy furniture and chandliers and huge amounts of expensive jewlry to show off.
And of course just like today, there was a very big difference between the clothes of a poor person and the fancy expensive hand made clothes of those could afford to show they “had good taste” in clothes.
Just because they did not have Ipods and high speed internet access, hardly means there was nothing to strive for materially speaking or that there was nothing for a poor person to be jealous of (if he did not have enough bitachon, just like one might struggle with, today).
In some respects the rich had more then we can have today.
They were able to buy vast tracts of land to view and go horseback riding through while these days it is considered
to be “too showy” even for rich people to have that much in a way that everyone can know about it.
It can still be done today, but it often brings on much criticism, even from other rich people.
HIE, something where I could get paid to discuss things and argue with those who disagreed.
Back then the only thing that I thought kind of fit the description was being a lawyer, but I never had the money for the education.
Even better these days is being a radio talk host like Sean Hannity who makes millions from each his radio ad his TV show and I know for an absolute FACT that I could do a better job then Hannity does.
But I have no connections.
I knew as a teenager what I wanted to do, but I have never been able to figure out a way to get a decent paying job, doing it.
So I have a low paying lousy, fear filled job, and do what I love, for free (while some others, make millions at it).
And since some will ask, I can’t get those jobs because I do not know the right people, or have any way of getting their attention.
She is “a tough judge” ONLY if she sentences murderers to the absolute maximim penalty no matter how young or old they are.
and if she has absolutely no mercy on drug dealers and gang bangers.
If they ALL always get the absolute maximum with no excises she is a tough judge.
Otherwise she is just another antisemite.
One of the best ways to encourage succes is to support the child going in the direction they want.
For example I was criticised as a kid for not going outside and “playing with the neighborhood kids” who just wanted to be bullies and pot smokers.
I had no interest in that.
I wanted to read and study science and computers and electronics.
But I was harshly mistreated and forced into the things I did not want.
Now I have no real job skills and a lousy life.
If I had been encouraged in what I wanted I am quite certain I’d be one of these google or yahoo or ebay billionairs today.
If not from the internet then from real estate, or some other business since I had all kind of ideas (I still do, but now I have to work full time just to barely cover my rent and other expenses and back then I had much more time to work on my ideas as well as the energy of youth to persue them).
I heard on the Donny Deutsch show, called the “Big Idea” (not making any new shows anymore) about a fmily that had something like 8 kids and the oldest is like 14 and the youngest around 4 or so and 6 of the 8 are already making money (thousands of dollars in the summer, selling snacks at baseball games, for one of them) doing things they really enjoy because the parents encouraged them to do what the kids wanted.
They did not give them this garbage about how “that is not practical and you will never get anywhere by doing that”.
They encouraged them and the kids who all tried succeeded at doing what they wanted.
Besides all the regular tourist spots;
Go also to out of the way places that tourists usually do not go to.
Also go out to the countryside and go horseback riding 🙂
As long as people including some of those supposedly promoting mental health, think it is perfectly valid when confronted with people saying things they do not like, to use false charges of mental illness, as a weapon, against others (like if someone says “You are paranoid, you need therapy”) because they cannot logically or factually refute what they are saying….
As long as such attacks are considered valid and supported by those who agree with those who make the attacks, the “Stigma for mental problems”, will never go away.
lesschumras I did not know you were a mind reader to know what others were THINKING.
lesschumras,
If someone like me who has WORKED in the mental health industry
cannot know what I said and was INVOLVED WITH, goes on there then how can YOU possibly know that it supposedly does NOT happen?
The case I mentioned, had nothing whatsoever to do with the patient, being sent to any “wrong unit”. He was brought there specifically as a mental patient and was never supposed to be brought in at all for ANY reason.
Artchill you are the one expressing conspiracy beliefs, anyone who does not agree that everytime some “professionsl” says “dope them up” and someone says they were wrong YOU claim THAT is supposedly a conspiracy.
You do not talk about “conpsiracies” when companies like BP are falsly accused of trying to save a few thousand dollars on a billion dollar project which causes an oil spill.
So take you OWN advice somewhere else so people can dael with the real problems that those like have ACTUALLY been involved with that you try and dismiss as some kind of “conpsiracy” to supposedly spread hatred against the Psychiatric industry.
artchill You are the one expressing hatred not me.
And Martial arts IS assertiveness in the case I mentioned, a person who is physically afraid cannot be assertive if they have been physically abused and do not feel safe in many situations for lack of the skills to physically defend themselves.
Every single person who has been trained a marine has said they have far more self confidence now after having been a marine tyhen they ever had before.
EDITED
I have been involved in more then one case where the problem was not ’caused’ by a chemical imbalance and yet drugs were still the first ‘solution’ the experts ran to.
And I know for a fact that in places where people are for various reasons, forced into involntarily, this kind of misdiagnosis, is a daily occurence.
In one well known hospital I know for exampe of a case of someone who was not even supposed to be in there and the head of the phychiatric unit said so, and still the ‘patient’ was almost forced to take drugs, just because “everyone there takes them” according to those who were trying to force this one, to take them as well even though he had NEVER been on drugs and wasn’t even supposed to be there.
In this thread is revealed;
One reason why some people hesitate to get therapy.
Suppose someone is OK and could get through life without needing therapy.
Now suppose that person growing up gets beat up by bullies and further traumatized by abusive parents and/or other family members.
So now they have problems they need to work out.
Perhaps in this case the best therapy might be learning martial arts which will boost their self confidence, not just in case of physical bullies, but in dealing with people in ANY situation.
But when they go to a therapist or psychiatrist, the first thing they are told is “chemical imbalence” and “you need medication”.
Martial arts would never even be THOUGHT of, by these “professionals”.
They have such linnear inside the box, thinking and often cannot come up with origional and ACTUAL solutions.
And if they did not have a chemical imbalance before being mistreated in life they do not have one now either, unless it is one created by the situations, which would by definition, mean that solving the problems in the situations, would then reverse the chemical imbalance (if one was indeed ’caused’ in the first place) which would in turn mean that solving the situation would be the solution, NOT DRUGS, in this particular case.
As long as people have the attitude that “well kids do this, what do you expect”.
The chutzpa will not only continue but grow and get worse.
If such attitudes were expressed regarding kids stealing money out of their mothers purses or fathers wallets, that would be a daily occurence, as well.
If a kid is not raised to have proper midos, they cannot be expected to suddenly have them at summer camp.
I do not think that such parents will care so much about anyons embarrassment at the hand of their child.
After all “they’re just joking around” never mind that there is no excuse for ‘jokes’ or ‘teasing’ at the expense of someone else.
oomis1105
“Sorry, but you and I are not on the same page here and never will be. Ivdu es Hashem b’simcha,means exactly that, and one part of avodas Hashem is the mitzvah of Pru Urvu. The mitzvah of being mesameach chosson v’kallah is called exactly that, because we ARE supposed to live joyfully and help others to feel joyful as well (“v’samachta b’chagecha v’hayisa ach sameach” are not just lip service expressions).If Hashem commands us to experience joy from our shloshes regalim which come about only three times a year, kal v’chomer that He wants us to be joyful in marriage which is 24/7.”
Are you giving a Psak Din here that there should be divorce on the basis of someone deciding “I’m not happy enough, and I will tear may family apart and ruin my kids lives, because I want more joy”?
SJSinNYC you are right is was NOT Artchill who falsly said about me;
“Aside from your outlandish and ignorant claims that women and some men too never face any form of spousal abuse,”
So are you going to say the onee who said THAT is not a voice of reason or try and get out of talking about, THAT?
As far as anyone saying anything about themselves or about others, those who support similar ideas will support each other, that does not PROVE that in the Beis Din Shel mila they will be found to be ‘one voice of reason’ out of everyone else.
SJSinNYCb who calls someone who makes false claims about what I said a voice of reason?
Fathers can’t be with their kids when mothers lie that the father was ‘abusing them’ when he never did that.
Dr. Pepper, I haven’t asked a
Rav but I do not know what I would do, if a Rav would pasken that my boss could single me out, and tell everyone else they may sit down for breaks and I am never permitted to do so, if the boss decides that is how it will be.
I have in the past had huge fights with my supervisor over this and have even been sent home more then once, losing a day (the hours of the rest of the day I was not there working each day I was sent home) from work over this.
None of this has been recent, but it has happened in the past.
I really have no other place to go at my age, and with my lack of skills, no money for training and no way to pay my rent while training even if I could somehow pay for the classes.
Even I could some how do all that, if I am doing any averias the way I am taking breaks now, I would still have to continue to do so, untill I finished and got hired (if I could at my age), somewhere else.
It would either be that, or become homeless, which for me would become Pkuach Nefesh.
I thank H-sh-m for giving me the intelligence to be a voice of reason.
d a thanks, that worked, how did you know how to find that URL?
I answered artchills post (the first part which is wrong) in the Feminism thread.
Gabboim That is not necessarily true.
I have to stand up all day which has ruined my feet and I cannot stand any longer without serious pain if I do not periodically sit down and take some pressure off them for a while.
I do not usually get explicit permission for this but without doing it I’d lose the job.
My supervisor and boss who both sit down all day doing nothing, and my coworkers get to sit down and do not get the criticism that I get, for doing what I must, to keep my job (and I have no other job to go to).
So while I am sitting down anyway, I often use the computer.
Also usually at the end of the day we are still, at work and not supposed to leave yet but the work for the day is done, so no reason to just sit around staring at the walls.
As I type this, this thread has 4 pages to it.
When you first click on the thread it shows something like this for the pages to click on;
1,2,….4
When on other threads it would go to page #5 with the first post on that 5th page, often when you click on it all you see is a blank page and the actual comment may be on page 4 still or as in a case I just had on another thread it does not appear at all.
Even if you can find it might be on page 4 but the pages to click on, won’t show page 4.
You have to click on page 2, then page 3, and only THEN do you finally get to page 4.
You cannot click on page 5 if page 5 is blank and then go backwards to page 4 because in that situation, page 4 does not show up to click on.
This gets extremly annoying and wasteful of time when the last page is page 12 and it is blank and the last page with actual comments on it is page 11 and you have click forward through all 11 pages, one at a time, to get there.
It is even worse when you do that, and still can’t find that last post.
How about making the page click look like this?:
1, 2, …….10, 11, 12
That way we can still click on the last page……Or the last page that ‘actually has comments’ in it, without having to waste all that time, clicking forward, one page at a time.
Arosem You told me that I have never experienced problems in divorces and then said bad marriages do occure so even if you did
not exactly claim that women never abuse the system that was the obvious implication of your attack on me.
And sasying that real abuse by men against women is rare in the heimish community is FAR from making “outlandish claims that it never happens”.
So what you want it to “seem like” and what it actually is, are two different things.
Arosem;
I did not twist your words (Words cannot be twisted anyway. They can be lied about or mocked, but not ‘twsited’).
You made false statements about what I supposedly said and I pointed that out.
“Firstly, I never said anything about the corruption that may lie behind some people, both men and women, when they involve the courts in their private relationships.”
Well I did, and you falsly claimed that I had supposedly said that there is never any abuse in marriages and I never said anything like that.
“I think, though, that it is a far stretch to even say that this is the case most of the time.”
That is what you WANT to believe, that does not make it true.
” Do you honestly believe that so many people are so malicious in their pursuits for wealth and control?”
Absolutely, just look at all the crime stats.
Something like 65% of those responding to poll at a big well known University (I think it was Harvard)said that they thought it was OK, to cheat on a test.
Look at the popularity of movies and TV shows promoting evil like “Breaking Bad” (the daily lives and adventures of drug dealers).
“I think that perhaps many more of the people that you assume to be seeking out divorce deserve the benefit of the doubt that there are indeed serious problems involved.”
The same could be said of those who get abortions or say Loshon Hara (of which there is plenty in many doviorces).
“But if you look back to my original post, I never claimed that people never lie to get their way in court. A statement like that would be just as crazy as claiming that abuse never happens in a given community.”
And yet in your first post to me, you falsly claimed that I had supposedly said that.
“Secondly, I think that your definition of feminism is a little off. I know that this is not the place for such a discussion, but I will just say that siding with a woman does not automatically equal a feminist agenda (although depending on the motivation it can be, but may very well have nothing to do with what feminism actually is). ”
You are doing it again.
That is not my definition of feminism.
Nowhere did I EVER say that anyone who EVER sides with any woman in any situation, was a feminist.
In fact in a another thread I pointed out that feminists were against women truly succeeding, when they did it on their own and were conservatives like Sarah Palin.
But someone who sides a with woman, when it may be questionable whether in a particular case, it is following Torah or not, and who will make excuses and attack those who point out that it may be wrong in ‘that’ case, or who make false accusations against anyone (like you did to me) me who does not toe the feminist line is obviously a feminist.
EDITED
I am not so sure nothing is written down about not reading fiction.
I love science fiction and was told by a rabbi (not necessarily a rav, but a regular rabbi who I get advice from) that I should not read it or listen (at least not on Shabbos, not sure now, if he meant not to at all, or if he was paskening that it was assur or just not worthwhile, like studying Torah would be)) to non Jewish music (at all, but that was a suggestion, he did not say it was a halacha).
I cannot cite chapter and verse because they did not quote it to me.
I am not even saying it is definately assur, but something that may be, and it might possibly be written down somewhere.
I am just pointing out that is very easy to say “It’s not written down”.
But just saying that, does not ‘make’ it true, even if no one can give the exact quote.
I remember hearing once about a great tzaddik (might have been one of the Chabad Rebbes before he actually ‘became’ Rebbe.) who was in a beis medresh and overheard someone, saying that a certain thing he was discussing with his chavrusa, was not mentioned in the Gemara.
The Tzaddik, knew it was there and asked the person, “Do you know the entire Talmud so well, that you can say that you ‘know’, it is not in there?”.
Smartcookie Denying the obvious does not help.
The Feminists are the ones who rally and advocate for such things
and no one else, does.