here to help

Hello, sorry I haven’t checked in for a while. I noticed that you are having some difficulty fully committing to TP. Firstly, you should know that because the method is a little radical for most of us, it takes time get accustomed. Let me reassure you, however, that when done correctly it is guaranteed to have positive results. The faster you get with the program the faster you will see these results.

Second, it seems your husband is still not on board, have him speak directly with Avi ASAP. If your husband “just wants him out of the house” your son’s feelings that “you hate him” will continue and hinder any progress you are trying to make.

Third, I disagree with the statement you made that “he has to go down before he can come up”. With TP you can stop his downward spiral fairly quickly. If it seems he’s getting worse after starting TP, what is more probably happening is the following. When first implementing TP a child will notice the changes in the way you are treating him and he will want to test your actions to see if they are sincere. If you do not follow through he will understand that you don’t REALLY accept him and that you’re just trying to manipulate him. (not good)

Fourth, I understand your need for support and that that is why you are here; BUT, although some of the advice given here is great advice much of it conflicts with TP and will only delay its affect. (sorry aries) 🙂

I will tell you once again; I have tried any and all methods that were presented to me from a wide range of professionals over a LONG period of time. The ONLY one that worked for me was TP.

I will try to help you if I can, but you have access to the master, I am merely a student. Keep in touch with Avi, HAVE YOUR HUSBAND TALK TO HIM, read the book MANY times, most of all, NEVER give up.

See…. I told you LOL 🙂

Hatzlacha Rabba

w.o.w. – sorry for having to come to a halt, but what I’m offering you is more than a theory or simple advice. It is a method that requires complete concentration and strict adherence. It cannot and will not work in an environment where every other post takes you out of focus or waters you down.

Even the MODERATOR completely doused my words and utterly reduced months of sincere outpouring of feelings to “chat room” bantering. Which is basically what this is and exactly why this won’t work.

Believe me, I would LOVE to help you but this is definitely not the place.

My advice to you is to contact Avi Fishoff, it can’t be that difficult to reach him. He CAN save your life and your son’s life.

Dear YW Moderator-18

You are correct that I only know what is being posted, but based on these fairly detailed posts (hundreds of them mind you) w.o.w.’s descriptions match almost exactly my own situation and the dozens of other parents that I have been in direct contact with for over a year. This OTD crisis is no secret, and if I know of a PROVEN VERY SUCCESSFUL method of helping this person I think I should make my point as strongly as possible. A trip to NY is not nearly as “expensive” as the pain and suffering these people are going through.

I can only lead you to the water; I realize, however, that I cannot make you drink.

There is another option, but I need to be able to send w.o.w. a 20mb file. your help with this would be appreciated.

w.o.w. I’m not understanding something. On one hand you describe your life as being unbearable. Your son’s life is obviously even MORE UNBEARABLE. I’m offering you something that can save your entire family yet you say that is “not an option”?

Forgive me for maybe jumping to conclusions you might have a really great reason for not coming to NY even for a short time. Think hard before you rule it out.

Twisted Parenting needs to be administered in a very specific way and therefore needs to be explained that way as well. As mentioned here before, the initial visit with Avi Fishoff could be up to 12 HOURS! Then there are many follow ups and groups…etc. Giving you bits and pieces with constant interruptions, not to mention the time zone difference, is just not giving the method a fair chance to work.

We have a possible good solution though if I can get your direct email.

Others will be considered on a case by case basis if they would like. If anyone else is interested they can post here.

w.o.w. – simply put, this approach should only be used when all regular forms of parenting are not working. Although, I must say many of the concepts here work for everyone, children and adults alike. You will be able to see the differences clearly once you begin.

I am thinking, however, that this forum may not be the best atmosphere to conduct this very sensitive and sometimes unorthodox (twisted) approach. Though some of the points made here are good ones there is a lot of outside distractions. The last thing you need while trying to concentrate on healing your son is distractions. So, I am going to confer with the man himself, Avi Fishoff, as to the best way to continue. I will let you know ASAP.

w.o.w. – First of all, think about what your saying. Your child is sick because of a severe trauma that HE experienced. Does that sound like something that could be contagious? (ridiculous). Healthy children will make healthy decisions. Like I said before, No normal healthy child would “choose” to do what he is doing. Furthermore, eventually you may need to explain to the other children what this mehalach is all about; but first you have to understand it yourself. BTW, my kids do it better than my wife and I do.

Secondly, what aries2756 said about boundaries is great for healthy children. YOUR CHILD IS BROKEN, if you would enter 2+2 in his “calculator” it would equal 7. No normal parenting will work at this point. You’ve been trying that for a long time already, has it worked so far? You said it yourself, he’s only getting worse. You are wasting precious time grasping for straws that are getting you nowhere. Remember, I’m here to help, but you gotta be ready and totally committed, You and your husband.

I know exactly what you’re going through (been there). You’re situation is far from hopeless; believe it or not I’ve seen and heard much worse than what you’re experiencing and it wasn’t too late.

It seems that a lot of your giving to your son had some kind of attachment or condition to it. Remember, we are trying to show UNCONDITIONAL love and like. I’m on my way to shul now but I felt I had to stop and answer.

You need to start being twisted ASAP, B’N after I break my fast I will try to show you how.

to all who are following – it is important not to jump into this in the middle, go back a page or 2 and review the posts.

w.o.w. – yes, you should buy him cigarettes, but there is a specific way to do it, so hold on we’re almost there. Second, through the steps you’re about to take, your relationship should improve greatly and you will begin to spend a lot more time with him. As a result he will automatically start to spend less time with his “chevra”

mom12 – you must get your husband on board, let him read the last few pages of posts and if he has any questions I will try to answer them.

After Shabbos, B’N, B’H; I will tell you exactly how to do this.

Good Shabbos ALL!

Some of aries suggestion is good, i would leave out when you hope he will be in bed and do not specify any time to call. just let him know that he can always call you if he needs anything or to be picked up (in any condition at any time)if he calls on Shabbos I would assume that it is an emergency and you should answer, but you would need to ask your Rav (providing that you explain the situation in detail). If you find yourself worried about him at any time you can txt him a smiley face 🙂 but ONLY a smiley face.

OK, I’m glad to see you’re ready to continue. I’m assuming you reviewed our previous posts and prerequisites. Though I cannot offer any guarantees, I can say, this method has such an overwhelming success rate that if you don’t see results fairly quickly (within 90 days) then you are not doing it right 🙂

As a parent of course you want to be helpful. What you can do to help him right now is only one thing: find ways to keep him happy and to feel good about himself!

By showing that you APPROVE OF HIM on the low level that he is at right now, you give him the COURAGE to think that maybe just maybe he can be something!

Firstly, don’t worry about the other children we, will eventually get to how to deal with that aspect. We haven’t really gotten to the crux of the method, it does involve building self esteem. A key factor though is that it not be “artificial”. Your child is REALLY sick, right? and you REALLY want him to get better. By providing him with his needs, no matter what they are, number one, you will be eliminating his need to get what he wants ELSEWHERE, and most of all you will be showing him beyond a shadow of a doubt that his parents (the most important people in his world) love him and accept him; that alone is a HUGE self esteem builder. While it is true this method lets him win all the battles (which he was winning anyway) the idea is that we WIN THE WAR. If you even try win any battles you will almost surely lose the war, and this is one war we cannot afford to lose.

BTW, keep in mind I have not yet begun to give you the practical tools needed to succeed at this. I will however, ask you at this point to review all my previous posts, internalize the ideas presented and let me know when and if you are ready to proceed.

w.o.w. – Firstly, you and your husband did the right thing by not locking him out, don’t worry about the result. second, you mentioned in a previous post that “you keep talking, even if you don’t think they’re listening”; that really depends on what you are saying. At this point, the only things you should be saying are words of support and acceptance. Trying to reason with him or show him what he is doing is harmful to him is not going to work; Has it worked so far? so when you say to “keep trying and maybe something will click”, as long as he doesn’t trust you nothing will click. Most people in your situation, including myself, have tried all the regular parenting approaches, the problem is regular parenting usually doesn’t work on broken children. You need to change your game plan completely. You need to be a little “twisted”. I’ll explain with a mashal.

It turns out that when the flimsy cheap cables were made in some third world country, someone twisted the cables and they were backwards.

W.O.W. if you think you’re ready I can begin relating to you some Basic ideas of the Avi Fishoff method called “Twisted Parenting”. There is a good reason why it’s called that, as you will see.

First, let’s review a few key prerequisites.

1. This is a team effort Husband and Wife

2. Your child is not BAD He is SICK we call it emotional cancer. Just like you wouldn’t expect a person with 2 broken legs to be able to walk, how can you expect a child to have any connection to spirituality and yiddishkeit when something, (or more probably someone), has ripped his neshama out from him

3. No negativity (arguing, blaming, tension, stern looks etc…)

4. No control, these kids are completely allergic to control

5. only positives (compliments, acceptance, approval)

6. lots of hugs, this works wonders, but don’t force it.

There is a lot more which we will get to… but…

Most of all, is the fact that you have tried all other methods and nothing has worked. To be continued, If you would like me to.

No, I am not a therapist. As I mentioned before, I am a fellow parent of a CIP (Child In Pain) and a talmid of Avi Fishoff. Most if not all of what I’m sharing with you comes from him. When you mentioned that you were the peace keeper between your husband and son I felt it necessary to mention that this approach is a team effort so I’m glad to hear that you and your husband are on the same team. BTW the power struggles must stop immediately, there can be no negativity AT ALL between parent and child, no matter what; that will get easier as the relationship begins to improve, which can happen pretty quickly if the method is followed correctly.

It is definitely more difficult in the beginning and I don’t think it is ever too late. Eventually when you PROVE to him/her that you accept them no matter what, they begin to trust you and the relationship builds from there.

The first step is to get it through your head that you are dealing with a sick child (a choleh nefesh) and I mean that literally not figuratively. This attitude will make it much easier to follow through on what is required to help your child “heal”. Once you have accepted this fact we can move on to the next steps. However, without accepting this fact the process will be very difficult if not impossible to follow through completely.