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Doc, Pepper is your real last name?
Maybe he IS the Pepper that made the shidduch?
How long is long? As long as chasidim (down to cheek and longer)?
The whole point of CS is that you can rely on the power of the government to insure it is kosher. Therefore, would unsupervised (i.e. no hechsher like OU-D) plain milk be undrinkable by someone who is maikel on CS (and why)?
I believe you should seek to get married asap, rather than pushing off the mitzvah. The Mishna says Shemona Esre L’Chupa. Unless you are delaying to achieve greater Limud Torah or some extenuating circumstances, the great mitzvah of marriage should be done as early as possible.
Delaying for university or other similar reasoning is wrong and not the Torah way. It is a large reason for the Shidduch Crisis of some people getting married late. And not to mention, as a rule, those who marry younger tend to have more succesful long lasting marriages.
Mazal Tov Dr. Pepper! That’s your second birth on this thread alone!
Can I take a totally random guess? Hmm…
Age gap???
The law in all 50 states allows potching.
The airline story above is one such example.
Oomis, you can’t be sure these kids you are so trusting of didn’t engage in sin as a result. They wouldn’t exactly let you in on the details of their inappropriate behaviors, or do it in public…
Oomis, cell phones you preach to trust them with but being up and about at 1 AM you agree you cannot trust them with…
You ought to respect his feelings and sensibilities regarding the seperation of genders.
Dr. Pepper, A girl’s father is _supposed_ to give a faher to the potential son-in-law.
Which reminds me. A godol (I forget which) gave a faher to a potential shidduch for his daughter. He did very well. Nevertheless he decided to give a second faher to be sure, prior to allowing the shidduch to go through. The bochor said no problem, but if you want to faher me a second time I will need to first faher you. He then demonstrated from the meforshim that he is supposed to marry a bas talmid chochom and has a right to verify as such. The first faher the potential father in law is given rights to, altz derech eretz, even though it is the bochor who has the greater obligation to marry a bas talmid chochom. But before he can administer a _second_ faher, now he has a right to first faher the girls father to insure he is marrying a bas talmid chochom!
I don’t recall if he said this pshat altz a little joke or was serious. Either way the godol called off the shidduch.
That bochor became the Chasam Sofer (I believe.)
You may not agree, but the Torah and Gedolim do.
Before the 2nd World War, Gedolim, in their infinite wisdom deeply steeped in Torah values (unlike us), advised Yidden it was better to risk physical death in Europe than to escape to somewhere where it was physically safe but risked spiritual death.
Yes, without hesitation or doubt. The spiritual welfare of a Jew is far far more important than his physical well being. Better to burn at the Inquisition’s stake, than to even pretend to leave Judaism.
FTR, the child was returned to the parents prior to disembarking and the police at the airport questioned and allowed them to leave without charges.
The law allows potching, as does SA.
I agree with blinky that any nomal rebbi loves his talmidim like his children.
He also has the same disciplinary duties as a father.
If you see someone beating a child to death or giving him a loaded gun to play with, call the authorities. If you see someone let his child play outside himself, or other parenting practices you are philosophically opposed to, don’t try to become a moser.
I completely disagree. A rebbi has the same status as a father, both halachicly AND practically, and loves a talmid like a son. He must not abdicate his responsibility to potch the child when necessary.
To do otherwise is destructive to the childs spiritual and emotional well-being.
About ainekelach I would tend to think of in the same status as children, but I would give it more thought before forming a firm opinion on the matter.
Rryr – Mazal Tov!! Where can we all come?? 🙂
An ehrlich yid would not agree to a shidduch where seperate seating was not a given.
The Shulchan Aruch says a rebbi should potch when necessary, just as a parent.
It might not make you an apikorus c’v, but it makes you wrong.
The Gedolim are far more knowledgeable about human nature (especially on aroyos issues) than any of us.
The spiritual welfare of a Jew always takes precedence over his physical well-being. This is an uncompromising point.
Shulchan Aruch Even HaEzer 21 says men are required to stay far away from women.
Even putting aside if you’d become a moser by doing so (as there is no imminent harm present), you certainly cannot since you’d be putting the child in GREATER danger by calling the goyish authorities. We all know spiritual harm is far worse than any theoretical/potential physical harm, and we need not elaborate the CERTAIN SPIRITUAL DESTRUCTION that WILL occur should the goyim seize a Jewish child putting him into a non-frum environment.
In line with proper parenting/disciplining, plain common sense, and indeed Jewish law, I think parents who do not hit their child when appropriate, should see a therapist. Otherwise their child will need therapy; in a good case scenerio.
Not to be an echo chamber, but Moq summed it up as elequently and on the button as possible.
There is nothing more to add to that, or the conversation for that matter.
And like he said, his point is applicable to many discussions — including probably a majority of CR threads here.
Rashi has Ruach Hakodesh. Every word he uttered and wrote is with divine inspiration and intervention.
Additionally, Rivka getting married at age 3 is the classical and standard explanation to cheder boys in Pre-1-A through Beis Medrash.
I should add, aside from these points, Rashi surely had a more authoritive version of Seder HaOlam — closer to its authorship than us — despite any so-called “modern research” (a/k/a rubbish).
If someone doesn’t like such due to modern 20th century sensibilities, so be it. Our Torah is eternal and needs no revisions.
The hakaros hatov, and the thank you’s, must go equally both ways. From the business to the customer for providing business, and from the customer to the business for the service.
If he follows the psak of a rabbi that was wrong, he may escape punishment after 120, but he will still have lost out a lifetime of doing mitzvos on the issues he didn’t do (or did wrongly.)
Incorrect. That is not a problem with a chumra at all. That is a problem with the person in question.
Additionally, cholov yisroel isn’t a chumro altogether. Cholov yisroel is required per Chazal. Non-CY is a kula.
Perhaps we should have a thread about the problems with kulos.
little, that’s all true, but has nothing to do with the Brooklyn Bridge.
Wear a white shirt nice and clean. Certainly better, on all counts, then wearing torn jeans.
mw13 is 100% correct.
Who makes chumros? Not Yankel Shoemacher. Chumros are set by Chazal, the Rishonim, the Achronim, the Gedolim! Who are we midgets to second guess these great men?
We are specifically told to make gedorim.
(The white shirt thing has nothing to do with this issue. It is simply a uniform for Bnei Torah, as Yidden are supposed to have a uniform.)
“dunno”:
As elucidated, and enumerated, and explained many times by several members – no it is not.
There is risk in everything, but as previously explained in detail, it is greatly reduced in the shidduch system.
Oomis,
Your trust in them is greater than the Shulchan Aruchs and the Gedolim.
As mentioned many times on this thread, for the many previously outlined reasons, going through a shadchan vis-a-vis the shidduch dating process GREATLY reduces the risks versus picking someone up in college, at a wedding party, or at a bar or disco.
Moq, very well said again.
The shidduch date is screened, regulated, and vetted generally. This removes much opportunity for sin. The daters knows if they try anything stupid, word may get back to others (ie the Shadchan who is involved.) Furthermore, both parties in a shidduch date are serious about marrieage generally; far less clear when bumping into an opposite gender at a party or college.
Additionally, when meeting up with an opposite gender at a party or college, there is a propensity they will “just be friends”, rather than be considering marriage. It is an issur m’doraisa to “just be friends” with a person of the opposite gender. (See Igoros Moshe and others.) No one can seriously claim that even in a “frum” wedding or college where boys meets girls, many don’t become “just friends”, where it would never have happened if not for the mixed setting.
Mixed events or parties provide a lot more opportunity to find someone else to sin with (remember – it takes two to tango), than a regulated and screened shidduch process.
And few in the chareidi world agree with you about eliminating research, for the many reasons previously mentioned.
All of these sunset, nature, etc. photos, can be downloaded as stock photos. What is the benefit of taking them yourself?
Moq, VERY well said.
SJS, no, it wouldn’t “have happened anyway.” Provide extra opportunities for it to “have happened”, and then it will happen a lot more frequently. Like Moq said, S”A says “keep far, far away from women” as a GENERAL statement for very good reason.
Additionally, you can’t have a mixed wedding only for the 18 – 23 year olds whilst excluding the 13 – 16 year olds from mixing as well.
As far as research, if something turns up negative AFTER a bond was formed, it may be too late to break.
When you skip the research it may be true you skip the silly stuff (plastic tableclothes et al), but you are at the same time risking missing the serious stuff you need to research. (By time you do it, the strong emotions may have kicked in.)
You risk throwing out the baby with the bath water.
I, for one, will abide by Rav Chaim Kanievsky’s opinion on this matter.
Popa, surprised you are not worried about the slippery slope, when all our gedolim are.
As far as psychologist, these con men are exactly why thousands of years of succesful parenting is being questioned.
It also eliminates determining subtle incompatibilies and the like that require research, and that emotions can overtake if allowed prior to research.
Effectively, allowing non-shidduch meetings risks eliminating the opportunity for the research. Their is very good reason for the PRE research, and risking a shidduch going through without the research is not something most parents or children desire. And rightfully so.
One of the biggest problems with non-shidduch dating (i.e. meeting in a pizza shop or college or at a party), is the lack of research prior to the meeting. Once the first boy-girl meeting happens, there is a huge risk emotions will overtake logic. Even if research conducted AFTER they already met shows they are not a good match (i.e. background info, etc.), the couple may refuse to break it off.