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September 17, 2010 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm in reply to: Clearing up a few myths regarding Tznius problems #696820HelpfulMember
As a married frum man I noticed that so far nobody has written “married women dress to look good for their husband”.
That’s exactly the problem! The same women who dress to kill on the street (with a complete disregard of tznius), dress like a shlumpy maid in the house with their husband. Makes one wonder.
Oomis, tznius is a strict legal requirement in Judaism, whilst kindheartedness is very appropriate but not legislated by law unlike tznius, hence tznius clearly being more important.
September 17, 2010 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm in reply to: Clearing up a few myths regarding Tznius problems #696811HelpfulMemberSacrilege is being honest with herself when she notes women dress to be noticed by men.
HelpfulMemberOk kaputsa, you can now become an orthodox rabbi. Orthodox rabbi Avi Weiss so paskened. One can get their female semicha and become a rabba. Its Orthodox rabbi Weiss’ psak. Don’t dare disrespect this orthodox rabbis decision or question it.
And enjoy that cheeseburger.
HelpfulMemberAnd what if an orthodox rabbi allows his congregants to drive to shul on shabbos and eat in any mcdonalds? Must we quitely respect that and mind our own business?
What did you say? No real orthodox rabbi would allow his congregants to do so? Correct. Nor would such allow uncovered elbows.
HelpfulMemberOomis, those you describe are definitly not zonas, but they just as definitely they are prutzas. Uncovered knees getting into a car or uncovered elbows most definitly falls into the category of a prutza.
HelpfulMemberI agree with sacrilige and rabbi108300. This is completely wrong.
HelpfulMemberI completely agree with mdd. We not only have a mitzvah of tochocho, we have a chiyuv of tochocho. We are obligated halachicly to rebuke a sinning prutza. And while calling them a zona is usually overstating it, prutza is 100% clearly the correct and appropriate term for these sinners.
August 30, 2010 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm in reply to: It's Almost September… Does every child have a school? #693864HelpfulMemberHow would co-op homeschooling be practical for Limudei Kodesh, considering the qualifications required and men available (i.e. not working) to teach?
HelpfulMembersqueak,
How would co-op homeschooling be practical for Limudei Kodesh, considering the qualifications required for it and by men who are available to teach it?
HelpfulMemberClearly being untznius in front of a goy is 100% assur as it is “pritzus”. The only exception is a nochri lifeguard, since he is a life saver. See Igros Moshe EH 4:62:1.
HelpfulMemberoomis, more important than what the heart tells you, is what the mind tells you. The cross is a vadai Avoda Zora for a Jew. (For a non-Jew, per the sheva mitzvos, it might be a machlokes.) But replace the cross in my question to you with something that you agree is A.Z. (i.e. a buddhist statue). What do you think you would do in such a situation?
HelpfulMemberPY: No, Rav Yaakov does not permit shaking.
I’m still waiting for the name of any prominent posek that disagrees with the CI, Steipler, & Reb Moshe.
Are you going to eat the d’rabbonon’dike kosher chicken-and-cheese sandwich l’sheim kovod habriyos? Shaking hands is YVY, a d’oraysa.
If you want to consult a female pants permitting rabbi, be my guest.
HelpfulMemberoomis, *truthfully*, if three drunken punk gangsters cornered you (with no escape) and c’v threatened to kill you on the spot unless you bowed to a cross they put in front of you while saying ‘for the l-ord’, and you realized they were deadly serious, would you bow or would you let them kill you?
You, and no one, should ever be in this or any remotely comparable situation.
Would you put Hashem first or your grandkids and children first? Would you give up being there for the einekelech?
Truthfully, a simple answer if you would say yes to Hashem and a bullet or not will suffice for this question? What is your choice?
HelpfulMemberPY: R. Yehuda Henkin is the zionist rabbi from Israel who also published a ‘psak’ that it is okay for women to dance in front of men, since he says “there not going to look anyways” (!!!). He has some other humorous responsa as well (such as questioning if it is “permissible” to call one of the gedolei hador [he wasn’t fond of] Zatzal (I’m not kidding.)) You decide if this is the type of rabbi you want to be making analysis for you.
If there is a legitimate opinion that shaking is ok, there would be at least a single prominent posek that could be named as disagreeing with Rav Moshe, the Steipler, the Chazon Ish, et al on this YVY d’oraysa issue.
fabie: re: singing, assuming there are no male guests in the house.
HelpfulMemberWhat “grey area”? Shaking hands is a yehareig v’al yaavor issur d’oraysa of arayos. No one near the stature of Rav Moshe, the Chazon Ish, the Steipler et al dispute this. Would you be be oiver a sofek chillul Shabbos because there is an opinion that it is ok? If offered a chicken-and-cheese sandwich — which is only a D’RABBONON — would you eat it to avoid embarassing the person who offered it?
But a YVY yes?
HelpfulMemberMoq, the rav in question has also been previously alleged on this forum to allow her to travel to work in pants.
Additionally, the psak of Rav Moshe that I said was undisputed by anyone of stature is the issur d’oraysa he attributes to inter-gender friendships.
Furthermore, I would be interested in knowing the name of specifically any posek who disagrees with Rav Moshe’s psak that shaking hands is assur.
Yes oomis, Rav Moshe, the Chazon Ish, the Steipler and many others said shaking hands is arayos, and yehareig v’al yaavor. (The Chazon Ish and Steipler say YVY specifically.)
HelpfulMemberDoes having both credit card AND personal auto insurance coverage provide additional coverage than just one or the other?
HelpfulMemberSee the earlier discussions.
HelpfulMemberThis is an Orthodox forum.
HelpfulMemberYes, mw13, even that poster does not deny the fact Reb Moshe at least 4 times paskened it is ASSUR to shake a woman’s hand. As far as being dan lchaf zechus them, we should do so for any aveira they do unless it is a clear b’meizid and they are so aware.
And no, NO ONE of stature disagrees with Reb Moshe that it is ASSUR to be friends with a girl. Period. End of discussion.
HelpfulMembermw13, nobody on this thread indicated they read Reb Moshe’s teshuva and disputes the “interpertation”. In fact there is nothing to “interpert”. Reb Moshe says shaking hands is assur. Who claims Reb Moshe says otherwise?
Reb Moshe also says being friends with a girl is not just assur, it is an issur d’orayso.
No one of stature disagrees with Rav Moshe. Check it out for yourself, and report back if – and who – you think disagrees.
HelpfulMemberMy comment was intended for the repeated nature I described of the comments of a particular poster, not a general class or group.
HelpfulMembermw13, the so-called “psak” is an anonymous claim of an anonymous rabbi. Versus a written teshuva of Reb Moshe. Show me the written word.
HelpfulMemberPerhaps Jax can “surprise” us too…
HelpfulMemberareivim, perhaps icot can take my hint even w/out squeak…
HelpfulMemberMazal Tov areivim!!
See, good things do happen when out of the CR…
May you and your Chossen build a bayis ne’eman b’yisroel!
HelpfulMemberSacrilege, it is a very clear Igros Moshe written in black and white, available at a seforim store near you. Consider the fact the bubbe maaise you heard is a misinterpertation by this woman who relayed it and got to you second or third hand. Reb Moshe’s psak din is written, and says it is an issur d’oraysa to be friends with a girl. Period.
HelpfulMembergavra, I don’t see any contradictions. It isn’t saying its okay to prance around bare chested. But ipso facto if he already said kriyas shema like that, the shema was yotza.
Siman Beis is halacha l’maaisa like every other part of SA.
And it is clearly 100% assur for a woman to be untzniusdik in front of a goy or otherwise.
HelpfulMember“women who do not choose to understand things”
Women shouldn’t be “choosing understandings” on halachic issues.
And again, you don’t have to be a kohein to be rewarded like Kimchis. The point is one is greatly rewarded for tznius like Kimchis. The great reward can come in many forms.
HelpfulMemberSacrilege, a certain very respected Rosh Yeshiva from the LES said it is assur m’doraisa to be FRIENDS with a girl. This very respected Rosh Yeshiva from the LES wrote a published teshuva to this effect. This very respected Rosh Yeshiva from the LES even has a name. It is Rabbi Moshe Feinstein. And what is even more interesting, is that no Rabbi of anywhere near his stature disagrees with him on this point.
HelpfulMemberSJS, assume you knew he was a frei yid, and he came over to you unannounced. He offers his hand. You’re on the spot. No time to call your Rov.
HelpfulMemberSJS, as an eishes ish, if Kevin Burke, Chairman and CEO of ConEd, was a Frei Yid, invited you to his office and offered you an executive level managerial position, you will refuse to shake his hand if offered, whether you are tahor or not?
HelpfulMemberAre you kidding re: being non-tznius in front of goyim??
Btw, where/who did you hear kol isha is ok in front of a goy?
HelpfulMembermw13, its called for when someone repeatedly and constantly twists gemorahs not to her liking to reinterpert it to her liking — often with the exact opposite meaning the gemorah intended. I repeat, this has been a pattern.
HelpfulMemberWhat coverage for a rental does your own personal auto insurance provide, on top of what the credit card company provides?
HelpfulMembermw13, SJS didn’t limit it to “non-Jewish men”. Read her comment carefully. She incredulously said that she — an eishes ish — has a “heter” to even shake Jewish men’s hands. Even when she’s not tahor.
!!!
If someone posts here that she has a “heter” for something so obviously wrong, people do not have to accept such claims at face value and have a right – nay, obligation — to question and/or dispute such highly questionable and/or obviously wrong (especially anonymous) so-called heteirim.
HelpfulMemberOomis, since when do women give their own narrowminded teitch of gemorahs? Yes, the gemorah cites Kimchis because the gemorah agrees with her. And no, the gemorah is not C”V “mistaken”, nor does the gemorah affirmatively and positively cite “mistaken” people.
The point about Kimchis isn’t only applicable to Kohanim. The point is by applying such tznius one will be greatly rewarded.
Since even socks are halachicly supposed to be donned and removed under the blanket, I don’t see any heter to dress any less in the house (including during exercise) than how one is required to be dressed outside the house.
No it all, good point about such pritzusdik body movements.
HelpfulMemberReb Moshe says its assur many times in the Igros Moshe:
CM2 32
EH1 56
OC1 113
EH4 32.9
In the last one he specifically says shaking hands is NOT comparable to his heter of sitting next to a woman on a bus.
HelpfulMemberThese days you can get a “heter” for chazir if you look hard enough.
HelpfulMemberEven men need to undress under the blanket.
August 26, 2010 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm in reply to: Mochel Loch… time to forgive and be forgiven! #1184876HelpfulMemberZats mich moichel, rabbosai.
HelpfulMemberBoys go to Eretz Yisroel to grow in Torah in the Yeshiva.
Girls don’t have that need.
August 26, 2010 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm in reply to: It's Almost September… Does every child have a school? #693778HelpfulMemberThere can be no sacrifice in ruchni.
HelpfulMemberLeasing is the most expensive option, in the long term.
HelpfulMemberChosson is correct. Even when undressing in your very own bedroom with no one else present, you are supposed to do so only under the blanket.
HelpfulMemberDr. Pepper-
I am curious. When you make a l’chaim, do you use soda instead of schnapps?
HelpfulMemberSJS, WHAT?!? You’re really advocating invasion of your children’s privacy by snooping on who they call and text? What ever happened to these children’s constitutional rights?!?
What’s next?? I hope you’re not gonna also advocate taking away the internet on their phones. I mean what if they need to research (with their full legal rights of privacy) some “homework”?
This is just as bad as abrogating these children’s right to a cellphone. Don’t you have enough faith in your child’s chinuch to trust your children with these necessities?
What has society come to?
HelpfulMembergood.jew: In at least 3 seperate psakim in the Igoros Moshe, Reb Moshe wrote it is assur to shake a woman’s hand due to giluy aroyos and niddos. The Steipler quotes the Chazon Ish saying it is a yehereg v’al yavor prohibition.
charliehall: That written responsa of R. Soloveitchik addresses what to teach girls in an already coed school. It doesn’t contradict the fact that even R. Soloveitchik held it was only coed due to a bshas hadchak under the existing circumstances.
HelpfulMemberThe gemorah in Eruvin agrees with what Bruria told R. Yossi. That’s why the story is brought in the gemorah.
Nail polish could be worn at home for her husband.
As far as shaking hands with a woman, Rav Moshe says it is 100% assur. (I think the Chazon Ish may even deem it yeherag v’al yavor.)
HelpfulMemberForget individual stocks. You CANNOT beat the market. Even highly experianced investors cannot. Put your money in index funds, which average as good returns as mutual funds, but with much less fees.
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