Forum Replies Created
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HealthParticipant
Here from Avram -“research what? and where”
“So as a simplistic model, let’s say that 20% of the people who cause wrecks do so because they are impaired in some way, and 0% of the people involved who didn’t cause it are impaired. Next, you have two incidents, a single car (1-occupant) crash, and a crash involving two vehicles (1-occupant per vehicle). In each crash, there is one injury. For the single car crash, there is a 100% chance that you are transporting the person who caused the wreck, so there is a 20% chance of impairment. In the second case, there is only a 50% chance that you are transporting the person who caused the wreck, so there is only a 10% chance of impairment
HealthParticipant2scents – “From your posts its noticeable that you are not experienced in emergency medicine.”
Why do you think that? Because you’re incompetent?
“The fact that you found a sentence in some EMT book stating, Trauma are there medical causes, has nothing to do with an MVA”
So a MVA is Not in the category of Trauma??? Say that again.
“and of course not with a single car MVA vs multi car”
I already posted to Ubiq the difference:
“From IIHS: Deaths from single MVA’s 2013 – 10,950
*********Deaths from multiple MVA’s 2013 – 10,318
You should read all the posts, before responding to s/o!
HealthParticipantUbiq -“More change! This is how YOU opened : “For the health professionals on YWN – “
I never said which “health professionals”!
“to expose your dishonesty”
You’re the one who’s dishonest!
“so why did you pretned this was the protocol?”
Stop with the lying! I never pretended that this was protocol!
“Its for the big bucks and lavish lifestyle!”
This I believe!
“! you outright said (several times) that there IS a difference between the two.”
And I still say that!
“This is the FIRST time youve said this.”
Stop with your lying! I already said it on page 2 and I quote -“Trauma – Are there medical causes? (e.g. diabetes, CVA, MI, etc.)”
HealthParticipantMod 80 -“Why not modify the protocol according to the time of day. Not the number of vehicles?”
My last post to you was answering your question, nothing more – nothing less!
And for the umpteen time, all trauma calls have to be evaluated as if the’re a medical issue also!!!
HealthParticipantUbiq – What you don’t understand or want to understand is that there should be no difference in treatment. You claim that you’re into internal medicine. This post was for s/o in emergency medicine.
I really think that you have an agenda? What is it?
“But let’s say the pt. is unconscious, in a single car situation – you’d follow the AMS protocol, but not with a multi-car crash!”
Same strong implication as above (actually I dont think this is an implication in this quote you outright said it)”
The fact is no one that I’ve seen or know about follows this as medical call. I was pointing out that at least it should be treated as such when it’s a single MVA!
You definitely have an agenda, probably just to put me down!
I don’t think you care about pts, so why are you in the medical field?!?
HealthParticipantIt’s disgusting how he blames the right wing for California terrorist attacks. In fact, it’s the liberal policies that contributed to make it easy for terrorists here in the US!
HealthParticipantFeivel -“What though makes you think an impaired driver in traffic is more likely to veer off the road and hit a pole or something rather than hit another car or cause another car to hit him?”
Not “in traffic”! From my personal experience, the impaired driver (e.g. a drunk), after the bar closes, go into their car. At this time it’s late at night when there is no or not a lot of traffic around.
But you’re right – it’s not more likely to hit a tree than a car when there is traffic around!
HealthParticipantUbiq -“Though you admit it is your chidush and not currently in any EMS book,guideline or protocol.
Correct?”
I’m not trying to change the protocol that EMS shouldn’t seek for medical causes at every trauma, but I’m trying to find a solution that can be feasible! The reality is that they don’t seek for medical causes at every trauma.
HealthParticipantUbiq – This quote I did Not make up -“Trauma – Are there medical causes? (e.g. diabetes, CVA, MI, etc.)”
“MORE TO THE POINT only needs to be considered with one car and not with multiple cars.”
I never said that – you’re lying!
“the idea that a medical cuase is more likely when one car is involved,”
This is true.
“THAT is what we are discussing you said MULTIPLE TIMES that there is a difference between 1 car and multiple cars.”
True!
“From IIHS: Deaths from single MVA’s 2013 – 10,950
*********Deaths from multiple MVA’s 2013 – 10,318″
HealthParticipantFeivel -“Your transparent attempt to maintain credibility by innapropriate ubiquitous exclamation marks was not successful.”
Excuse me. The only things that I ever put in exclamation marks was something quoted from elsewhere or that me or others have already posted on YWN!
HealthParticipantUbiq -“thanks for admitting that you made this all up.”
I didn’t make this up -“Trauma – Are there medical causes? (e.g. diabetes, CVA, MI, etc.)” Did you ever look in an EMS book?!?
HealthParticipantMod 80 -“I think your solution is very intriguing (although in my opinion it is not correct).”
Like I said before -“I was giving a workable solution for EMS & Hatzolah. Do you have a better solution?”
If you don’t believe me that’s a problem go videotape 100 MVA’s!
HealthParticipant2scents – See my last post to Mod 80.
It applies to you too!
HealthParticipantMod 80 -“Yes you have to consider medical causes. Everyone here agrees to this and we don’t need a source.”
The fact is – no one does!
“Now if you will please answer the question we all keep asking you.
WHAT IS YOUR SOURCE FOR DISTINGUISHING BETWEEN SINGLE AND MULTIPLE VEHICULAR ACCIDENTS?”
See my post to Ubiq! I was giving a workable solution for EMS & Hatzolah. Do you have a better solution?
HealthParticipantUbiq -“what book is that in? (for the third time)”
I can’t tell you – Copy infringement.
“Is this what the book said (what book?) or is this your own chiddush? (for the fifth time)”
My own.
HealthParticipantMod-80 -“QUESTION FOR HEALTH TO ANSWER: What is the source of your statement that proper EMS protocol is to approach the evaluation of the victims differently when dealing with a single vehicle accident as opposed to a multi vehicle accident?”
I already dealt with this -“Trauma – Are there medical causes? (e.g. diabetes, CVA, MI, etc.)”
“I skipped the rest of the whole algorithm. There isn’t time to do it at every MVA, but it’s imperative at least to do it at a 1 car MVA!”
IDK if you have treated accident victims, but I have.
The book says -“Trauma – Are there medical causes? (e.g. diabetes, CVA, MI, etc.)”
I haven’t seen anyone look for medical causes in MVA’s. From before – “There isn’t time to do it at every MVA, but it’s imperative at least to do it at a 1 car MVA!”
HealthParticipantSL -“well i am not a doctor, but i play one on tv”
I doubt it! Actresses have a nice personality.
HealthParticipantTo E/O: My posts were put up after yours. Reread my posts and if something is still bothering you, rephase the question(s).
HealthParticipantSbeph – he now advertises in the Lakewood weeklies that he organises functions, e.g. Yeshiva dinners.
HealthParticipant2scents -“Mr Health, the probability is your own logic, is there any studies or assessment protocols that state this?”
IDK if my last post was up yet to Ubiq, if it was and something is still bothering you, rephase the question.
HealthParticipantPBA -“It isn’t fair for you to ask someone at their medical degree is, when you’ve refused to tell us your degree for the past 5 years, and just insisted you are in a “medical field””
It has been pretty obvious that I’ve been in EMS, once upon a time. But I’ve also stated that I’ve been in other areas of medicine. So it’s a fair question to ask what area of medicine are you in!?!
HealthParticipantUbiq -“Thanks for your reply. Very interesting. However I’m inclined to go with PBA (first time!)”
I’m not surprised. Anything liberal with Israel or life – you go for!
“It think even if what you say is true it is more of a cute factoid than part of any medical algorithm.”
I asked about your degree. What area of medicine are you in? You obviously don’t know emergency medicine!
Look I have an EMS book that states -“Trauma – Are there medical causes? (e.g. diabetes, CVA, MI, etc.)”
I skipped the rest of the whole algorithm. There isn’t time to do it at every MVA, but it’s imperative at least to do it at a 1 car MVA!
HealthParticipant2scents -“However it could very much be that more single car crashes are the result of an underlying medical, yet this does not make any two car MVA to be excluded from this suspicion”
I already addressed this – Could imply is Not the same thing as probably!
HealthParticipantUbiq -“I still dont get it. so they both get EKG’s so wether you suspect heart attack or not doesnt really matter.”
It sounds like you’re in the medical field – what’s your degree in? Are you involved in EMS? Whether is with a “h”.
“ITs not like either case is having troponins drawn in the field or are they?”
They could be, but I don’t know of any EMS org. that actually does it!
“Do you only check fingerstick with one vehicle?
If the driver has pinpoint pupils, barely breathing would you only give narcan if only one vehicle was involved?”
If there was AMS you’d give narcan with one vehicle, even if the pt. had normal breathing and normal pupils!
“In what way is the managment different?”
See above.
HealthParticipantPBA -“In any two car crash, there’s a high likelihood that one car caused it, which could imply an underlying medical cause.”
Could imply is Not the same thing as probably! Look – go back to your jokes on this thread. At least they make some sense!
HealthParticipantUbiq -“If you dont mind, id like further explanation. SO EKG would be done for a one car accident but not for multi-car?”
An EKG would be done regardless. (If you’re ALS.) But let’s say the pt. is unconscious, in a single car situation – you’d follow the AMS protocol, but not with a multi-car crash!
Pay attention 2scents!
HealthParticipantUbic -“I’m confused whihc of the above take precedence over ABC’s (or CAB’s)? Even if you had high suspicion of Heart attack, as far as I”m aware CAB’s still come first then you can decide whether to go to trauma center or one with PCI in the unlikely event that you cant find a facility with both.”
Are you in EMS? Let me explain it further. First you do ABC or CAB, then evaluate. The point I was making is that you evaluate for both medical & trauma at the same time. This is only for a single car accident.
HealthParticipantPBA & 2scents – “I thought of that, but doesn’t driver impairment also cause 2-car crashes?”
In any car crash, even though there’s the possibility of a medical cause, it’s Not probable!
But in 1 car crash, it has to be treated as a medical call, along with trauma.
HealthParticipantMod 80 -“You should assume possible driver impairment as the cause of a 1 car accident.
Heart attack, stroke, drug use, drunk, suicide, etc.”
Congrats! Now I believe that you’re a doc. Does anybody remember AEIOU-TIPS?
HealthParticipantSL -“would you like to hear what i would have said if i wasn’t judging you favorably?”
Actually I’m not interested in your opinion whether you judge me favorably or not. Btw, is Little Froggie your son?
HealthParticipantProfound 101 – That’s not what I want. Look there is a difference in the assessment between a 1 car accident and a multi- car crash. How do you assess a pt. who’s a victim with no other cars around?
HealthParticipantSbeph – he doesn’t do it anymore. What? – do you owe him $ ???
HealthParticipantSL – “they may care very much but not be interested in the way you approach people. plus they may have mentors they can go to, why assume they don’t care because they don’t take you up on the offer?”
Boy the way you jumped on my post – you didn’t have time to read it! Your assumption of why I wrote – “I haven’t come across too many guys in EMS whether Jew or not, that really care!” is really funny, if it wasn’t so sad. And you’re the one always giving Musser about Judging People Favorly.
HealthParticipant2scents -“You make it sound as if your an attending ER doc in some trauma center and its only you that knows something, you dont come across as someone in the know.”
I’m not an ER doctor, but I do know medicine. BTW, I don’t care how I come across. If you’re truly interested in knowing – let me know. I haven’t come across too many guys in EMS whether Jew or not, that really care!
HealthParticipant2scents -“That is incorrect, there is no difference.”
There is a difference. I’m not Mechuav to teach you medicine. I was nice enough to get you started. If you show me that you’re trying, I’ll help you out. Even if I don’t get any money from you!
HealthParticipantprofound101 -“DRSABCD”
How about you? Or you only give Musser about music?!?
HealthParticipant2scents – Look there is a difference in the assessment between a 1 car accident and a multi- car crash. And I thought you were getting close. Go research it!
HealthParticipant2scents -“There is no difference in treating a pt that was involved in a one car accident vs a multi car accident, unless it becomes an MCI”
Ah, but there is a difference! Nothing to do with a MCI. This was the purpose of this thread.
Go research it & then come back and let us know what you found out.
HealthParticipant2scents -“No different than a pt from a multi car accident.
If you are referring to EMS (usually the ones treating pts at car accidents”
Now s/o is getting warmer! But you’re wrong. It is different than
a multi-car crash!
HealthParticipantYidd23 -“Isn’t it strange that Health is disturbed by Popa’s taking the patient out of the car”
Because people will take this seriously. The rest – probably not!
HealthParticipantPBA -“If you put it in the trunk, you won’t be able to get it.”
Put it in the trunk. If you see a car on fire – you can help out!
HealthParticipantGamanit -“You were referring to the accident on the front page. Being as there was severe bleeding, there’s no time for a KED”
I was referring to that case or something similar. No where does it say anything about bleeding. Where you there?
HealthParticipantLF -“Very often these things burst into flames r”l.. and every second counts… One is sitting directly above a can of gasoline, unless it’s horse driven, and a collision r”l is a common cause for eruption.”
I’m not saying that no cars catch on fire after a crash, but it’s rare. As much as the Frum world doesn’t watch TV, they are influenced by it.
Don’t move the victim! E/O should carry a fire extinguisher in their homes & in their vehicles.
HealthParticipantYidd23 -“PBA is assuming that all cars are either on fire or about to blow up.”
Unfortunately a lot of people think that! One of the rules in Medicine is “First – Do no harm!”
Leave them in there until a professional takes them out.
HealthParticipantPBA – I know you’re joking, but for e/o else -“But if patient is in a car from a car crash that could blow up, you yank them out of the car fast”
There is no reason to yank them out of the car fast, unless the car is on fire!
HealthParticipantGamanit -“I will perform a rapid extraction,”
What? Why would you do that?!?
HealthParticipantCharlie -“Call 911 or Hatzalah.
Not even a shilah”
You didn’t even bother to read the OP – “For the health professionals on YWN”! You’re EMS or Hatzolah or another medical guy.
HealthParticipantJoe – “Sedate him.”
By talking to him/her, not with medication.
HealthParticipantFrom a medical handbook:
Typical male pattern baldness involves a receding hairline and thinning around the crown with eventual bald spots. Ultimately, you may have only a horseshoe ring of hair around the sides. In addition to genes, male-pattern baldness seems to need the male hormone, testosterone. Men who do not produce testosterone (because of genetic abnormalities or castration) do not develop this pattern of baldness.
Women – Some women also develop a particular pattern of hair loss due to genetics, age, and male hormones (which tend to increase in women after menopause). The pattern is different from that of men. Female pattern baldness involves a thinning throughout the scalp. The front hairline generally remains intact.
HealthParticipantDY -“If Joseph’s right that I’m not bald, does that mean I don’t have hormones”
Just means that you have a lot of female hormones & Not a lot of male hormones!
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